Balkans - General discussion

[spyretto]

This thread was split from another thread because it went off topic. Here you can discuss about the Balkans, its people, their culture, mentality, the way they dress, etc.

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

I thought so ... cause Im assuming Greece isnt thaaaaaaaaaaat much different....

Well, I'm afraid it IS different. Greece is more like Western Europe, and girls don't want to be labelled as "sluts" no matter what. But I really haven't been around Eastern Europe to know how it is there. So you were right

[coolasfcuk]

Originally Posted by spyretto

Well, I'm afraid it IS different. Greece is more like Western Europe, and girls don't want to be labelled as "sluts" no matter what. But I really haven't been around Eastern Europe to know how it is there. So you were right

hmmm... well, I havent personally been there... but Ive heard stories from bulgarians visiting greece .... and the Balkan subjects are Balkan subjects no matter what. ... although you are escaping to the south a bit. But they said (the bulgarians) that greeks HATE bulgarians and act very 'snobby' around us lol .. all of my friends had bad greek experiences.

bulgarian girls dont want to be labeled 'sluts' either .... its just the general understanding of 'sexy' is different ... what is 'slutty' standard to one, is 'sexy; standard' to others.

[noki_the_cat]

Originally Posted by spyretto

But I really haven't been around Eastern Europe to know how it is there.

I noticed the girls, young ladies and women in east Europe try their best to be as beautiful, elegant, classy, attractive, tasteful, pretty, fashionable and appropriate. Very impressive compared to north American and the no cares grunge look.

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

hmmm... well, I havent personally been there... but Ive heard stories from bulgarians visiting greece .... and the Balkan subjects are Balkan subjects no matter what. ... although you are escaping to the south a bit. But they said (the bulgarians) that greeks HATE bulgarians and act very 'snobby' around us lol .. all of my friends had bad greek experiences.

bulgarian girls dont want to be labeled 'sluts' either .... its just the general understanding of 'sexy' is different ... what is 'slutty' standard to one, is 'sexy; standard' to others.

I never understood what the problem is with Bulgarian people. I can understand it with the Turks and the Albanians, but not with the Bulgarians. There must be something but I don't know what it is. The Bulgarians sided with the Nazi in WWII, right? That might have something to do with that.
Yeah I'm afraid the Southerns ( those people in Athens mostly, who are cocooned around their own little existence ) use the word "Bulgarians" as an insult for the Northerners. It's going on for a while and has become commonplace on sports grounds. It has generated attention recently and it's going to become an issue that comes to the Greek House of Parliament. The antipathy may have something to do with that.
So to be called a "Bulgarian" is synonymous to a big insult. I don't understand it and I don't think it's fair either but it's only me.

I noticed the girls and young ladies in east Europe try their best to be as beautiful, elegant, classy, attractive, tasteful, pretty, fashionable and appropriate. Very impressive compared to north American and the no cares grunge look.

That is true for the Greek girls as well.

[coolasfcuk]

Originally Posted by noki_the_cat

I noticed the girls and young ladies in east Europe try their best to be as beautiful, elegant, classy, attractive, tasteful, pretty, fashionable and appropriate. Very impressive compared to north American and the no cares grunge look.

You forgot to say 'women' as well.... i dont think its only the young that wanna be fashionable. Though i have to admit, i think a middle ground is the best - USA (esp mid west) is a bit tooooooooooooooo careless - you could see people going to school lin their pajama bottom shorts, nasty old t-shirt and flip-flops and it just gets tiring to watch NASTYly dressed--tasteless people. In East Europe on the other hand things are waaaaaaaaaaay to dressy. One feels like they have to put make up on and get dressed up to simply go throw away the trash in fear of being noticed looking too grungy

I never understood what the problem is with Bulgarian people. I can understand it with the Turks and the Albanians, but not with the Bulgarians. There must be something but I don't know what it is. The Bulgarians sided with the Nazi in WWII, right? That might have something to do with that.
Yeah I'm afraid the Southerns ( those people in Athens mostly, who are cocooned around their own little existence ) use the word "Bulgarians" as an insult for the Northerners. It's going on for a while and has become commonplace on sports grounds. It has generated attention recently and it's going to become an issue that comes to the Greek House of Parliament. The antipathy may have something to do with that.
So to be called a "Bulgarian" is synonymous to a big insult. I don't understand it and I don't think it's fair either but it's only me

so yeah, all my friends werent exaggerating then! Yes, for a while we were on 'the wrong site' during the wars but I dont see the Greeks saying: "Oh, look at that asshole, he is such a German!" Thanks for clarifying that though... there goes my enjoyment of possible Greek vacation!

p.s. I have nothing against Greeks either, 2 of my grandparents were practically born in Greece, although they are 100% bulgarian ... until at age 10 they were KICKED out due to border changes ... maybe that's the problem - all those Balkanadian countries just have too intertwined history ... and the Balkanadians have way too much pride.. OPPA (Watching the Big FAt Greek WEdding though, it applies to BG just as good haha)

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

You forgot to say 'women' as well.... i dont think its only the young that wanna be fashionable. Though i have to admit, i think a middle ground is the best - USA (esp mid west) is a bit tooooooooooooooo careless - you could see people going to school lin their pajama bottom shorts, nasty old t-shirt and flip-flops and it just gets tiring to watch NASTYly dressed--tasteless people. In East Europe on the other hand things are waaaaaaaaaaay to dressy. One feels like they have to put make up on and get dressed up to simply go throw away the trash in fear of being noticed looking too grungy

Well, in the UK they do dress in a more careless and tasteless fashion compared to Greek girls but they haven't gone that way yet. So you only occasionally see something that would make you go "huh" You see a lot of girls in tracksuits, something that you don't see in Greece often. But many older women's dress sense is crap.

I think we had this conversation before, didn't we?

[nath]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

p.s. I have nothing against Greeks either, 2 of my grandparents were practically porn in Greece, although they are 100% bulgarian ...

Oh! really my Cool... ...so I understand why you're so Hot sometimes in your posts...

[coolasfcuk]

Originally Posted by nath

Oh! really my Cool... ...so I understand why you're so Hot sometimes in your posts...

thanks nath, yes, I am porn-stars child!

ill fix this!

[noki_the_cat]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

One feels like they have to put make up on and get dressed up to simply go throw away the trash in fear of being noticed looking too grungy

Yes this is very true in Mocva and Bashkir.
A lady around 50 was mentioning it is like, "lady’s feel they must dress up to go for bread!"

Speaking of Greece, Halliburton’s construction of the new highway and tunnel system in Greece is sure impressive.
Reducing grades from 12% to 7%, increasing lanes and preserving historical sites too.
I’m looking forward to driving the full length instead of partial sections.

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

so yeah, all my friends werent exaggerating then! Yes, for a while we were on 'the wrong site' during the wars but I dont see the Greeks saying: "Oh, look at that asshole, he is such a German!" Thanks for clarifying that though... there goes my enjoyment of possible Greek vacation!

Well, they do say it about anybody really, and they'd definitely say it for a German...although we're not a particularly racist country, otherwise we wouldn't have "embraced" the Albanians despite all the problems they're causing. I think poor Bulgarians are at the wrong side of the fence, I mean if you were consistently called a "Greek" as an insult, how would you feel when you met a real Greek? It's funny because we share the same religion but the Serbians, for example, would be seen in a much more favourable light than the Bulgarians would be. Maybe there is an explanation somewhere but I don't know Bulgarian people well to be able to form a hypothesis. Can you?

p.s. I have nothing against Greeks either, 2 of my grandparents were practically porn in Greece, although they are 100% bulgarian ... until at age 10 they were KICKED out due to border changes ... maybe that's the problem - all those Balkanadian countries just have too intertwined history ... and the Balkanadians have way too much pride.. OPPA (Watching the Big FAt Greek WEdding though, it applies to BG just as good haha)

That Greek family in MBFGW was sooo exaggerated. Those are the Greeks of the diaspora
It has to do with what you say as well. The Greeks see possible theats everywhere, that they'd try to claim parts of their territory eventually...Turkey with Cyprus and the sea territory...Albania with South Epirus...the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia for claiming the name and the history. So they refer to the threat of the idea of the "Big Bulgaria", probably including those territories before the border changes took place as well.


But We're geting so offtop now! Haku will be understandbly so pissed off

[haku]

Originally Posted by spyretto

But We're geting so offtop now! Haku will be understandbly so pissed off

Have fun.

[freddie]

OK, what are we talking about here? People of the Balkans? Who is, who isn't? Who dresses better? Well for one thing, I can safely say that from what I saw Slovene people dress WAY better then Americans do. At least according to my tastes. Americans are too fond of baggy clothes. I like to see some curves.

And I still say the best dressed girls I ever saw were the ones in Belgrade. Those girls really know what to wear to look sexy. I could easily objectively say they are the best looking as well, although I must say I'm more fond of American girls in that regards (but that's just me - I LOVE cultural diversity).

As for the question what nations are still considered to be balkan... that's easy. All that live on the Balkan peninsula. The real question is which of those nations have the balkan MENTALITY though. IMO I'd say those are all the slavic balkan nations, plus Albania and Romania. Greeks are a bit more... mediteranian (don't take this literaly though).

[coolasfcuk]

Yeah, well me and spy were [off] again (surprise, surprise) and so this thread emerged

Originally Posted by freddie

OK, what are we talking about here? People of the Balkans? Who is, who isn't? Who dresses better? Well for one thing, I can safely say that from what I saw Slovene people dress WAY better then Americans do. At least according to my tastes. Americans are too fond of baggy clothes. I like to see some curves.

Well, I havent been to Slovenia yet, but I can believe ya, as i can say Bulgarians dress better than Americans as well even though majority of them are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay poorer. Its just the mentality, might be your last/only 50 bucks, but it better be spent on fashionable brand piece of clothing... even if that means not being able to pay your heating bill!

And I still say the best dressed girls I ever saw were the ones in Belgrade. Those girls really know what to wear to look sexy. I could easily objectively say they are the best looking as well, although I must say I'm more fond of American girls in that regards (but that's just me - I LOVE cultural diversity).

Well, I personally havent been in Belgrade yet, but my cousin has .... and I've seen more than enough Serbs at the Bulgarian Black Sea, and I have to say .... I agree. And my cousin (who is super str8) aknoledges the fact that Serbian girlies are one of the most beautiful women on earth In general i think on the Balkans, women are waaaaaaaaaaay more beautiful than men in that region (please, dont take this offensivly). Rarely would I say a BG boy is HOT! (they usually look Scandinavian then )
Also agree that Americans are very beautiful, for the same fact - the diversity of all kinds of cultures/races mixing together!

As for the question what nations are still considered to be balkan... that's easy. All that live on the Balkan peninsula. The real question is which of those nations have the balkan MENTALITY though. IMO I'd say those are all the slavic balkan nations, plus Albania and Romania. Greeks are a bit more... mediteranian (don't take this literaly though).

haha, I agree, to some extent, but wouldnt you say Greeks have a bit of the Balkan MENTALITY as well?
Then again, is Slovenia considered part of the peninsula? Cause you guys are a bit too far up and away..... and with more West influence than, lets say... the TRUE Balkanians like Serbia, Bulgaria, and Romiania!

spy, I would think more why it might be that Greeks hate us so much, but I think we've already suggested some of the most obvious reasons....

[spyretto]

Athens is like a different country compared to the rest of Greece. If you go to the north, there's a lot more of that Balkan mentality. It's because the country is very diverse in terms of the landscape, so you tend to see a lot of different lifestyles as well. So the people of Athens have a different mentality to the people of the other cities. The islanders have different mentality to the village folks and the Cretes have a different mentality to all the rest of them. It's difficult to explain though.

"The true Balkans is Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania?" Is it because they're similar slavic cultures? I can't say I understand what you mean exactly.

Offtop:
mentality not "metality". I'm still struck to the metal and salad.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

agree. And my cousin (who is super str8) aknoledges the fact that Serbian girlies are one of the most beautiful women on earth In general i think on the Balkans, women are waaaaaaaaaaay more beautiful than men in that region (please, dont take this offensivly). Rarely would I say a BG boy is HOT! (they usually look Scandinavian then )

No offence. I quite agree. The cuteness of the Balkan peninsula lies in the XX chromosome.

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

Also agree that Americans are very beautiful, for the same fact - the diversity of all kinds of cultures/races mixing together!

Exactly. You get fed up with seeing nothing but slavics every day of your lives. I was in 7th heaven walking through Boston's China Town. Not to mention how at awe I was of the black people. The probably thought I was a racist or something, from staring at them so fondly.

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

haha, I agree, to some extent, but wouldnt you say Greeks have a bit of the Balkan MENTALITY as well?

Well... up to an extent maybe. They're easy-going, careless about certain things... but all these things corelate to the mediteranian cultures as well. Dunno. They definitely have some balkan feel in them, but it's clear they're culturaly a lot different then for instance Bulgarians or Serbs.

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

Then again, is Slovenia considered part of the peninsula? Cause you guys are a bit too far up and away..... and with more West influence than, lets say... the TRUE Balkanians like Serbia, Bulgaria, and Romiania!

Well... it's disputable. Everyone in Slovenia wants to desperately deny any kind of conection to the balkan heritage, while we lived as a part of Yugoslavia for 50 years. It left a mark definitely. And there's still a huge Yugo-nostalgia here. 60% of slovene popular music comes from south of the border. It also shows in cuisine, love of football etc... But for sure - our mentality is a tad different from an average Balkan folk. Infact when I was in Serbia, the Serbs said that Austrians and Germans are out "rođaki"... which would mean "family". Which is quite peculiar, since we're much more related to Serbs ethnicaly when we are to Austains or Germans. But it does show you something about our mentality.

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

spy, I would think more why it might be that Greeks hate us so much, but I think we've already suggested some of the most obvious reasons....

Well I think it's mostly down to the fact that your "cousins" Macedonians "stole" a very important historical name of a nation from them. The only "Macedonians" for them are the descendans of Alexander the great. Hellenes. And not some slavic tribe. I think that's what's bothering them.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by spyretto

"The true Balkans is Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania?" Is it because they're similar slavic cultures? I can't say I understand what you mean exactly. off]

Romanians are NOT Slavic, you infidel!

[spyretto]

Romanians are NOT Slavic, you infidel!

oh yeah Romanians are descendants of the Romans or something? I apologise. And I didn't equate them with the Serbs and the Bulgarians myself. But my ignorant comment was just as ignorant as your comment about Macedonia. What else was Macedonia dude? The parts that are now F.Y.R.O.M. were a district of the Macedonian empire under Philip I,II and Alexander The Great. There was no other Macedonia. I'll pretend I didn't read that.

In the same fashion, Corfou should call themselves London cause they once used to be part of the British empire?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia

Just to get your facts right. I've no objection in calling themselves Macedonians but they should use another word to pronounce their genuine background, eg. Macedonian Slavs or something. They want to call themselves Macedonia, period. They even use the Pella star as their symbol.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by spyretto

oh yeah Romanians are descandants of the Romans or something? I apologise. And I didn't equate them with the Serbs and the Bulgarians myself. But my ignorant comment was just as ignorant about your comment about Macedonia. What else was Macedonia dude? The parts that are now F.Y.R.O.M. were a district of the Macedonian empire under Philip I,II and Alexander The Great. There was no other Macedonia. I'll pretend I didn't read that.

The "Macedonian" sentiment is not even genuine. It was cultivated by Tito in order to give them some sense of national identity.

I didn't offer any opinion of my own on this subject. I know what "Macedonia" stands for. Now and in history. I just said what the Greeks MIGHT resent Bulgars for. Now.

... and Romanians.. who really knows where they come from. They're a kind of a mystery in Europe. They speak a langauge that is a descendant of vulgar latin which SHOULD make them romans descendants, but some theories are finding some genotype similarities with Albanians... dunno... it's all to complicated for me. I gave up in trying to figure those guys out.

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by freddie

I didn't offer any opinion of my own on this subject. I know what "Macedonia" stands for. Now and in history. I just said what the Greeks MIGHT resent Bulgars for. Now.

... and Romanians.. who really knows where they come from. They're a kind of a mystery in Europe. They speak a langauge that is a descendant of vulgar latin which SHOULD make them romans descendants, but some theories are finding some genotype similarities with Albanians... dunno... it's all to complicated for me. I gave up in trying to figure those guys out.

I don't think they resent Bulgarians for that though - if they do...that goes a long way.

Well, ok. I did some editing on my post above to reflect my real view on the subject. You did offer yours in a way. But I really think the Macedonian Republic should call themselves Slavic Macedonia or something. And they don't want to ( why? )
About the Romanians, well you're right. Their language is great, they speak a real romanised language but if they're so mixed up, I could argue they also have some Slavic blood as well.
Maybe someone who does Balkan Studies can shed more light on the subject.

Strangely enough this issue never came up when I was living with my Romanian ex-housemate...though we did talk about the language. I remember he was very vehement about Slavs though, calling them all sorts of names ( after watching Mihajlovic do his thing playing with Lazio, ie spitting at Beckham or something? )

[coolasfcuk]

Originally Posted by spyretto

But my ignorant comment was just as ignorant as your comment about Macedonia. What else was Macedonia dude? The parts that are now F.Y.R.O.M. were a district of the Macedonian empire under Philip I,II and Alexander The Great. There was no other Macedonia. I'll pretend I didn't read that.

this is what its all boiling down to .... the complicated Balkan history and everybody's enourmous PRIDE! ha ha... I bet you lots of money the history lessons i recieved in my Bulgarian schools were a bit different than the history lessons you got in Greece spy we should compare!
I believe in the Bulgarians .. the Balkaniada comes not just from the Slavs, but from the proto Bulgarians! (if not more) of course, the local tribe - the Thracians were also pretty BARBERIC .. so if you ask me, in the case of Bulgaria, the Slavs were actually the 'best' (or the least barberic) tribe of the 3 that made up Bulgaria in 681, even though they were the most in numbers.
I will think more on how to describe/define Balkan Mentality as well...

and spy, dont worry, I completely understand what you are saying, because same applys for Bulgaria as well. Sofia is Sofia, and everything outside of it .... is something else - different culture and mentality. Up by the Denube and Romania we have the people we call 'Vlasi' who are Romanian related, in the South West region we have the 'Macedonian' region, where people basically speak a totally different dialect (Macedonian), by the Turkish border we have 'Pomaci' who are not even Christian, but Muslim, by the Black Sea totally different region and so on ... but isnt it like that in most parts of the world, not just on the Ballkans?

Ah, the Romanians .... i think we need a Romanian to come shed some Romanian light on the issue! Killa?

edit:

Originally Posted by spyretto

Strangely enough this issue never came up when I was living with my Romanian ex-housemate...though we did talk about the language. I remember he was very vehement about Slavs though, calling them all sorts of names ( after watching Mihajlovic do his thing playing with Lazio, ie spitting at Beckham or something? )

you see, the damn PRIDE .... everybody thinks they are better than everybody else around them ... Romanians hate Slavics and think they are horrible, well, Bulgarians (and Im assumin Serbs as well) think Romania is worse and Gypsy land (no offence, I am just telling general views here) ... its like the joke we have about the 'scrawny guy' laughing at the 'guy without teeth' (hope you get the idea)

[freddie]

Originally Posted by spyretto

I don't think they resent Bulgarians for that though - if they do...that goes a long way.

Well, ok. I did some editing on my post above to reflect my real view on the subject. You did offer yours in a way. But I really think the Macedonian Republic should call themselves Slavic Macedonia or something. And they don't want to ( why? )

I think they don't change it cause they plainly got used to it. They lived as the socialistic federal nation of Macedonia, part of former Yugoslavia for 50 years, whole generations grew up with knowing only that name (stolen or not) and at this point they are an internationaly recognized nation, also a part of the UN. So as far as law is concerned the name belongs to them now. As far as historical implcations go... well, that's a tough one of course. It's a very delicate subject. I think it was indeed originaly a Greek name, but special circumstances led to things like they are now. I don't think "Slavic Macedonia" would be a way to go either. They have a huge Albanian ethnicity in the country and they would surely protest at the country being called "Slavic".

Originally Posted by spyretto

About the Romanians, well you're right. Their language is great, they speak a real romanised language but if they're so mixed up, I could argue they also have some Slavic blood as well.
Maybe someone who does Balkan Studies can shed more light on the subject.

Oh, for sure. Most people in the region have SOME slavic blood. It's just not predominant and their culture is generaly not slavic. But even the langauge itself shows a lot of slavic influence, from centuries of being surrounded by them as well as the Soviet Union era, when most people probably at least understood Russian.
IMO they're a left over of an ancient tribes (of which only Romanians and Albanians are left) that lived in the region before the slavics came and who were later romanized.

About Romanians hating slavics... I heard they hate Hungarians even that much more.