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Old 21-01-2006, 05:03   #1
haku haku is offline
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Iraq - General discussion

Amazingly we don't have a thread on Iraq yet.

The results of the last elections were published today, as expected the Shia Islamic party has won the majority (not as much as expected though, the results have probably been slightly rigged so it wouldn't get the absolute majority).
Anyway, congratulations to the US for turning a laic country into an Islamic republic, good job.
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Old 21-01-2006, 21:04   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
Anyway, congratulations to the US for turning a laic country into an Islamic republic, good job.
Seriously, Bush is the Republican's answer to Roosevelt.


On of the key problems the US troops have in Iraq, among other things, is that they cannot differentiate between Iraqi local and Arab foriegeners. The Iraqi insurgents that shoot at US troops have every reason to do so, being that US are an occupying force. But it is the Arab foriegners like Al-Zarqwi (sp?) that are blowing up random people (Shiites really) and are the real impediment to peace in Iraq.

Of course the Americans troops have no idea how to tell the difference between the foriegners and the locals, so they see everybody as potential enemies. What would you expect when the President himself had no idea what the difference between Shiites and Sunnis before invading Iraq, let alone the fact that those two groups did not get along.
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Old 22-01-2006, 19:09   #3
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No comment on Iraq. But I thought I post this quote as it is relevant to the topic (Iraq).

"I'm not the expert on how the Iraqi people think, because I live in America, where it's nice and safe and secure." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"I wish I wasn't the war president. Who in the heck wants to be a war president? I don't." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004
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Old 24-01-2006, 05:27   #4
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I was seeing on the news that the Islamic pressure is more and more intense in Iraq, everywhere there are 'groups' who strongly 'encourage' the population to follow Islamic rules more and more stictly (the previous regime was authoritarian, but Islamic rules were not especially enforced).
A very visual and characteristic change is that more and more women are now wearing the Islamic veil, that was quite rare under the previous regime, and that's now becoming the norm. I highly doubt that those women have freely decided to start covering their faces, they are being forced to, like what happened in Afghanistan when the talibans took power.
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Old 24-01-2006, 06:38   #5
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I haven't heard to much news these last times but I suppose there was a free election......so .....if the previous government has stayed at the head of Iraq, we 'd surely have heard here: "Of course, it's a corrupted government which is just a puppet manipulated by the American Government...."
People from Iraq has made another choice. So....

Me , I've always screamed that I was against Islamic Governments but you,Amber..... you are For Freedom......freedom of expression (here, The People has freely expressed its choice...)......so I don't understand your post...
What is your problem with Islamic parties and the fact that Iraqi women could wear the Islamic veil, Amber, ?

Last edited by nath; 24-01-2006 at 06:56.
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Old 24-01-2006, 07:18   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
I was seeing on the news that the Islamic pressure is more and more intense in Iraq, everywhere there are 'groups' who strongly 'encourage' the population to follow Islamic rules more and more stictly (the previous regime was authoritarian, but Islamic rules were not especially enforced).
I'm no expert on the Middle east but surely Saddam's Regieme would be preferable to a Islamic republic?? Soon Iraq WILL be Afghanistan v2. :/

I don't agree with Saddam's Methods but least he kept to himself. Unlike a Certain President :/
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Old 24-01-2006, 13:11   #7
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Veil or not veil , you are still treated like a dog if you have a misfortune to be born in these parts of the world. Saddam's Regieme or Islamic republic ? Big choice !
To live in constant fear that your son/husband/father will never come back home after the day work/and would be beaten to the pulp/vanish forever OR cover yourself in a veil garbage and be not able even cross your own doorstep without a man ! Spoiled for choices...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
I highly doubt that those women have freely decided to start covering their faces
I highly doubt that those women have freely voted for the Shia Islamic party !
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Old 24-01-2006, 17:04   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
Me , I've always screamed that I was against Islamic Governments but you,Amber.....
You make it sound like i support Islamic regimes, when have i ever said that i support Islamic regimes? I am an atheist and a laic, i am against any intrusion of religion in political and public affairs.

My point with the war in Iraq was that the situation *after* the war would be no better than the situation *before* the war, and that's what we see. Iraq went from a military regime to a fundamentalist regime, there will be no more freedom now than there was then, the oppression will be of a different kind, but military or religious, it's still oppression.
The sad thing is that thousands of people have died during the war and continue to die, and for what, just to change the nature of the oppression? All the people who have died because of that insane war have died for nothing, absolutely nothing.
The only winners in the end are fundamentalists, they have gain power in Iraq and the hate between the West and the Arab world has never been stronger, no good has come out of this war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
What is your problem with Islamic parties and the fact that Iraqi women could wear the Islamic veil, Amber, ?
Like i said above, i am against parties that are based on religion (the Shia Islamic party) or even ethnicity (the Kurdish party), political parties should be solely about political ideas, not about what religion their members follow or what ethnicity they belong to.

And the Islamic veil is a form of oppression.
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Old 24-01-2006, 19:17   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
And the Islamic veil is a form of oppression.
YES,IT IS.
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Old 25-01-2006, 05:34   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
And the Islamic veil is a form of oppression.
Not if you choose to wear it, obviously.
Secular repressive regimes like Iraq choked all forms of opposition so the only channel to express one's opposition would be in a mosque. The rise of women wearing hijabs and Islamic fundamentalism may be in direct defiance to the former regime.

The same logic could be applied all across the Middle East.

Or, of course, they may be oppressed.
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Old 01-02-2006, 19:36   #11
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Yesterday the 100th British soldier was killed in Iraq.

I think Blair should send his son there and worry every night when he goes to bed whether his son is still alive. That way he could start to understand a little bit.
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Old 01-02-2006, 20:15   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel
Yesterday the 100th British soldier was killed in Iraq.

I think Blair should send his son there and worry every night when he goes to bed whether his son is still alive. That way he could start to understand a little bit.
umm.. I wish people around here would get worked up about over 2,000 dead Americans. I'm not looking forward to saying goodbye to my best friend in August when she gets shipped out to Iraq for 18 months. I say fuck bush and his goddam fucking war. That's all I'm saying about Iraq... I'm sick of talking about it.
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Old 01-02-2006, 20:20   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khartoun2004
umm.. I wish people around here would get worked up about over 2,000 dead Americans.
Yeah I know a lot more Americans have died, but in comparison with how many British troops & American American troops have been sent it must be about the same percentage? I dunno, just a guess.

I'm just mentioning what was said on the news, blame them for not having a huge feature about dead Americans.
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Old 15-02-2006, 19:25   #14
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New Abu Ghraib footage has been released showing how US troups torture their prisoners, it also gives us a glimpse of what is going on behind the walls of Guantanamo.
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Old 15-02-2006, 20:55   #15
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But what's REALLY interesting is the fact that they didn't get as upset over the Abu Graib scandal as they did over those silly Muhamed cartoons. That's the power of fanatism. They'd have less trouble dealing with humiliation of themselves and their peers than humiliation of their dogmas.
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Old 15-02-2006, 21:22   #16
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Probably because all Arab countries treat their prisoners in the same way and because human life is worthless to them compared to the prophet's honor, but it's still no excuse for a western country to do the same, those pictures could have been taken in a concentration camp of the 3rd Reich or a gulag of the Soviet Union, and it's appalling that the US isn't treating its prisoners better than those totalitarian states.

Also interesting is the fact that those pictures are banned in the US and that Americans are probably the only people in the world who have not seen them, the only thing that seems to interest American media at the moment is Dick Cheney's hunting accident, yeah…
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Old 16-02-2006, 09:11   #17
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Gulag yes, Concentration camp... I don't think so.

But you know what, I'm getting sick of the White House getting scandal after scandal after scandal and the media, the White House, The Democrats and the American people all collectively not giving a shit.

Torturing prisoners of war, abandoning your own people in the face of a hurricane, lieing about going into war, being complicit in some of the worse corporate scandals in history, having any associations to the worse lobbyist to have ever graced Congress, unnecessarily ending the lives of over 2,000 soldiers and over 100,000 Iraqi civilians, still not catching Osama, or Al-Zawari, or Al-Zarqawi, fucking up international relations most probably for good, outing a CIA agent, shooting a person in the face and lieing about the facts surrounding the "accident" (I call it practice) etc, etc, etc...

You know what's the saddest part about all this; all it takes, all it takes to get this government out of office is a fucking blowjob.

Shit! I'll do it for the love of humanity!
And then I kill myself.
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Old 11-10-2006, 16:05   #18
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Death toll in Iraq since the US invasion now estimated at 655,000 dead.
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Old 11-10-2006, 16:17   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haku
Death toll in Iraq since the US invasion now estimated at 655,000 dead.
They are great to assassinate their brothers!

Do you call that Resistance?
When German/Nazi armies have invaded our country, there was resistance....
Members from Resistance were trying to bomb German truck, German trains, German authorities....not French...

I'm may be a fucking stupid, facho, extreme-right, pro-American, Nazi, tyrannic person...but sorry, whatever the reason, I don't understand people who kill their brothers!!!
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Old 11-10-2006, 23:58   #20
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That's the basis for the whole problem actually. Suniis and Shiites harrdly consider themselves "brothers". Now throw in a whole bunch of other ethnic and religious minorities to that mix and the mess Iraq is in right now becomes pretty understandable. Iraq's basic problem (one which Saddam opposed with sheer totalitarian brute force) is it's heterogenous populace.

I think the basic sin lies not with the Attack on Iraq in 03 but rather a few administrations back when some silly people decided to make Saddam Hussein their volatile ally. This current generation is just paying for mistakes commited in the past.
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Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
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