Lilja 4-Ever

[russkayatatu]

First of all, there's no previous thread about this movie, right? I looked and didn't see one, although I know it's been discussed a few times before. Maybe we can talk about it more in-depth here, then?

I just saw it yesterday and thought it was FANTASTIC! If you haven't seen it, go see it: it's the new (2002) film by Lucas Moodysson, director of Show Me Love; it's about a girl from somewhere in the ex-USSR who ends up trapped in Sweden forced to work as a prostitute. It's very dark, but it's very well done, and I think whoever wrote the script too was amazing

Anyway I was wondering a couple things about the movie - only got to see it once, but it seemed when I was watching it that Moodysson was dealing with a lot of the same issues that Shap and Tatu do: like the one scene towards the end when she keeps talking in Russian and her Swedish client says "what, no school today? - sit down, do your homework, and be quiet," massaging her shoulders and getting aroused. It's the same projection of the "sexy schoolgirl" that tatu use with their outfits, in their YSSU and ATTSS videos, although in Moodysson's film it's not titillating, it's degrading - and ugly, after everything that she's already been through.

As a tatu fan I also thought it was disturbing when Lilja was in the bathroom - she'd been taking a bath and her pimp/imprisoner Witek opened the door and violated her - shot almost the same way as Yulia in Prostye Dvizheniya, although she was just sitting there.

Not that L & Y are like whores and not that they're exploited by the sex industry, but I was unsettled when I saw this movie. And I remembered another time when I was unsettled as a tatu fan: when I was at the taping for their ATTSS performance on Carson Daly, and they were doing their teasing (will we kiss or not? we're so close... ) and everyone around me was so excited and wanting to see them kiss and not have the network censor it...and I thought, WTF, am I going to cheer them on, try to get them to kiss? There's something funny about that. And I didn't know what to think.

Moodysson dedicated it to all the millions of children who are victims of the sex industry, he says at the end of the credits. I was wondering what he thought about tatu, if that was in the movie at all or if I made it up I always knew tatu used pornographic (= erotically stimulating) imagery, although I guess the difference is that they provoke it and channel it away from themselves. But still there is something a little exploitative about it, or at least it seemed to me last night.

I am wondering how the desire of all Lilja's clients is different from the desire a lot of people here seem to have for Lena and Yulia - it seems the same. Not provoked by the schoolgirl image, maybe, but that's not important. Does it make such a difference that it goes into all the obsessive things laid out in detail on the tatu forum and not into, you know, sex? I guess it does make a big difference. Sorry for rambling, people

One more question for those who've seen it: was that a picture of Lena on the wall of her first apartment where she lived with her mom?? It looked like it could've been, but I wasn't sure

Any other comments on the movie would be appreciated

By the way, I thought the soundtrack ROCKED - I want it, LoL

[Tom Violence]

I absolutely loved this film. I go to the cinema an awful lot, and this has been the best film I've seen so far this year. I adore the emotional intensity of it. Helped by the soundtrack, which was great. Rammstein and t.A.T.u. are both HUGE sounding bands, they suited the film.

I didn't at the time read any overt connection into the sexual theme of the film and the image of t.A.T.u. but there is certainly an affinity. And I've heard Ivan Shapovalov was inspired by Fucking Amal. I think the thing both he and Lukas Moodysson are keen to do is to make visible teenage sexuality. And indeed the appeal teenagers can have. These are the kind of steps necessary before a successful investigation of what constitutes exploitation can take place.

I'd never call Lilya 4-Ever exploitative or titillating. Moodysson never implies that Lilya does anything other than hate her 'employment' as a prostitute - the sex scenes are so uncomfortable, I can't possibly see how anyone could find them arousing. t.A.T.u. are clearly a different issue. I'm not uncomfortable watching t.A.T.u. videos, I'm not uncomfortable with the sexual component of their image. Maybe I'm still sufficiently young to be attracted to Yulia and Lena without feeling awkward. And I don't find them attractive in their early videos so much as I find them attractive as they are now. I think the point that emerges is that there is no easy way to define a point at which sexual desire is maladaptively directed. I think that's probably what Ivan intends to say.

And it's a perfectly reasonable point as long as one doesn't mistake the ambiguity of 'right' and 'wrong' for their non-existence. Because we must still say that some actions are not morally justifiable. However, I'm not sure how a case-by-case basis could ever work in society, I think there has to be an arbritary age of consent.

I have more questions than I do answers.

And Lilya did have a Taty poster in her bedroom, yes.

[KooReeT]

I could say that this is one of the best movies that I've ever seen. It left an impression on me that I've never felt before. And it was hard not to be overcome by emotions at the end Considering the fact that it was playing in only 2 theatres in NYC, the film had great reviews and did really good in ticket sales. I also liked how they showed how Russian teens expirience growing up in rough neighborhoods and in rough times.
Thank you ihavetatusleeves for coming with me to see the movie and sharing the expirience of seeing this great movie.
Also, I caught the chills when I saw the Tatu poster in her room and hearing NGGU!

[spyretto]

I stand corrected about what I said, of course these things are happening and are happening for too long, it was about time someone made a film about it.
That film should also be shown in China, where there's a huge trafficking network. If Lilja survived her ordeal she'd probably have a child who would be forced into prostitution too, if she were a girl, abandoned or killed if it was a boy.

The moral is: you go looking for money in the wrong places you're gonna get killed.

I was only commenting on the fact that Lilja's character is perhaps too angelic to be realistic in the deep sense but it's a drama, after all.

Real life can be even worse, that is the world we live in, and there are many heartless scumbags out there just like those characters in the movie.

[zebu]

I just saw the movie 2 weeks ago at the film festival here in croatia.

i agree with you, it made such a big impression on me, no other movie ever did.
and the ramstein and tatu songs and that version of forever young - it was so strong.

and there was defenitely a tatu poster in her first apartament.

[spyretto]

and there was defenitely a tatu poster in her first apartament.

Yeah, there was...Tatu in red, if I remember correctly.
The soundtack's great, like in all Moodysson films. He says that he uses songs that have something to do with the particular scene of the film that the song is heard, they're not just chosen in random. For example, "Nas Ne dogoniat", in the car with Andrei, when they talk about going away...or the song heard when Vitek takes Lilja to a store to buy her a hat, that was a pretty intense moment too. You'd think that she'd do something, scream or try to break free but didn't. ( Oops, sorry about the spoilers for those who haven't seen the film. )
Rammstein were chosen because he saw grafitti on a wall, in Russia. They had to make the environment as realistic as possible.
Overall, I think Moodysson handled his material very well. There was always the danger that a film with such a subject matter could degenerate into sexual titilation but this one didn't. The way he shot those "sex scenes" also helped a lot.

Moodysoon is quite popular in Greece, at the moment. "Lilja 4-ever" did very well, and now they're showing "Show Me Love', quite belatedly; but it never got a proper cinema release in Greece before.

[taty994945]

does anyone know where i can buy this film?

[spyretto]

You can get it on DVD(2) or VHS( PAL ) , it was released in Sweden fairly recently. I don't think there's a NTSC version out yet.

http://home.no.net/oebamal/en/store_lf.html#uk

[zebu]

the film is great, one of the best i've seen lately.

i remember after seeing it i couldn't stop thinking about it for few days.

at the film festival in motovun, where i saw it, before the film started the leading actress Lilja-in the film came to the stage and said a few words about the film- of course in russian, it was nice to hear it live & she looked good

[spyretto]

that version of "Forever Young" from the soundtrack is just awesome

[zebu]

Originally posted by spyretto
that version of "Forever Young" from the soundtrack is just awesome

do you have the soundtrack?
what's the name of the rammstein song that is at the beggining and at the end of the film?

[Lцfberg]

Lilja 4-ever is a great film. Even better than Fucking Еmеl! Swedish directors rule!

[taty994945]

thanks spyretto

[spyretto]

The Rammstein song is called Mein Herz Brennt. You can also find it on their latest album ( Mutter )

[zebu]

Originally posted by spyretto
The Rammstein song is called Mein Herz Brennt. You can also find it on their latest album ( Mutter )

thanx on the info

[taty994945]

I watched lilja 4-ever the other day...it was clearly the most powerful film i've ever seen. I love the scene where they get high on glue at the pentagon and that techno song is playing

[zebu]

and the music is great during the whole movie.

i must get the soundtrack

[rachelc]

I too thought Lilya was the best film of the year - the whole of the Russian tragedy was in there; the failed Communist belief system and the replacement of it with what? A heartless, empty Western world, full of material goods (where everything can be bought and sold) but lacking in any kind of humanity. The scene where Lilya's mother leaves is one of the most powerful I've seen in a film in a very long time. If Yulia and Lena haven't seen this yet, they really should. I would be fascinated to hear what Moodysonn thinks of Tatu because of course, as has been said before, he would have deliberately chosen those references and I know he takes quite a serious interest in Russian culture.

[russkayatatu]

huh, I'd nearly forgotten about this thread

For those people who liked the music in this movie I think the song playing during the opening credits (after the Rammstein, when the camera is going past the buildings, if I remember it correctly ) is "Bomba," or Бомба, by Via Gra.

[zebu]

russkayatatu you remember correctly it is Bomba