President Bush backs anti-gay marriage bill!

[rylettia]

Man, this thread almost makes it embarassing for me to say I'm from Texas But wait, I already am. 16-year-olds can drive, 18-year-olds can smoke and have sexual relationships, and DOGS are protected from any "aggressive" contact here, but gay people can't get married and sodomy is just now being legalized for gay couples.....after a couple had the cops called on them

My parents are avid Bush supporters. Pfft. I think they've gone to the church that George Bush Sr. goes to a few times here in Houston.

The Bible, though I have no problem with its believers, is very one-sided. Concerning homosexuality, it is described as perversion against God's natural plan with the only solutions as praying for forgiveness or strength to cleanse yourself...

[parrish122]

Rylettia, the Bible has been translated so many times...who knows by now what it *really* says?

Plus people tend to be very selective on what "sins" they think are serious....usually the ones they *know* they won't commit!

<Sigh> This is why I always say I'm spiritual, rather than religious.

And as far as the anti-gay marriage amendment...don't think it is so sure to fail. About two-thirds of the states *already* have laws against gay marriage. Would it really be so hard for them to pass this amendment? I don't think so.

I *knew* there would be backlash over the supreme court ruling. <Sigh> I just hope that this doesn't get any uglier.

On a side note, I voted for Gore....even though I'd broken three toes the day before, I went and voted.

If so many of my favorites in state elections hadn't won, I'd have been *very* annoyed.

Parrish

[Khartoun2004]

If I had been old enough to vote I would have voted for Gore too. I'm sure as hell not voting for bush in 2004. And Dan Quayle can kiss my gay ass!

Actually a person from Speak Out once told me that the original text of the bible says nothing about homosexuality at all. In the ancient latin it was written in there wasn't a word for homosexuality and niether was there one in ancient Hebrew. Also the Romans weren't against homosexuality either. So really all the arguments that cite the bible might as well be using information written in a tabloid as far as I'm concerned.

The reason I'm a little on edge about Bushes statement is because of the fact that 90% of the states in the US do not allow gay marriages. Also there's the added fact that the Republicans control the House, Senate, White House and the supreme court has mostly Conservatives on the bench. That makes the odds of the anti-gay marriage amendment being passed very likely. Most places in this country, particularly the south, are against homosexuality on any level.

Another thing that pissed me off about Bush's position is the fact that he talks about making the Iraqi people free when a whole 10% of the people here in the US are opressed and do not enjoy the freedom and equality our country is commited to protecting at all costs. It's just more proof that he is a hypocrite, and moron. So much for the "Land of the free".

[DinoBora]

Khartoun2004,

It's just more proof that he is a hypocrite, and moron.

Bingo! :lollisimo: Right set of words to describe nature of certain individual
- "And let's not make mistake about it" *

* GWB favourite quote

ps:/ hope no one from TX offended

[rylettia]

Parrish, probably true that Bible lost some content from its original Hebrew and Aramaic, but the majority of today's Christians study a translated version which does speak of homosexuality as a sin. But then again, I don't speak Aramaic or Hebrew, nor do I have the original text So it's better than I do as Khartoun2004 and disregard it.

Lmao at all the Bush comments!

[smilie faces]

why would i trust bible? it was written by men..
if my dad hears me he'd kill me hahah he's very into church..
i believe in god.. just I don't like priests..

anyways... Bush swallows.....

[njblondie85]

The problem with this whole concept is that there is nothing in the constiution that leaves marriage up to the federal government. Marriage has always been a state issue and DOMA [a law which leaves the federal definition as man and woman but leaves it up to the states to decide!] and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments puts marriage into the hands of the states [anything not mentioned within the constitution was left to the states through those amendments]. Frankly, I htink this is Bush's way of diverting the public attention away from all his fuckups. Men are dying every day in Iraq as more and more ambushes happen, his armed forces are spread too thin, and the economy hasn't been this low since before Clinton. His ratings in the polls are bottoming out so he is banking on his opposition to gay marriage as a way to bring them back up.

Logical-- almost-- do I agree with it? absolutely not.

[ypsidan04]

You're absolutely right, njblondie85. This should be left up to the states. Because of the 9th & 10th, any federal law defining marriage should be unconstitutional.

I love that quote in your sig!

[freddie]

I mentioned this in another thread once - George Bush is not the real problem here. And neather is christianity. Society is the real problem, because it's willing to tolerate the absurd dogma that a marriage was made for a man and a woman exclusively. And why is society tolerating it? Because it's made in the majority of straight people who are unwilling and affraid to accept difference in their environment. George is just using "common thinking" of americans and the bible as an excuse to further his conservative views on society. He just plays his part in the game of conservatism and hypocracy. If we all would be 100% honest with eachoter I think George would say something like this (maybe that was he was really thinking): "I don't like homosexuals, I'm disgusted with them. I don't think they deserve to get married." What he really said was just sugar-coating his real thoughts.

Let me elaborate further: everybody knows that the bible was writen by men, and furthermore by men who had no clue what modern society might be like - it was writen specificaly for the culture of the people who lived in the middle east at that time. (And add to that, the fact that the bible is one of the most misinterpreted works in the history of mankind). George knows this well. He's not (that ) stupid. Saying that a marriage could only exist between a man and a woman is as ridiculous as saying there could only be a white, male & straight president of the USA. Isn't that the next logical step?

[PowerPuff Grrl]

Freddie, I think you're overestimating Bush's intelligence. No offense to any Americans really, but quite frankly I think your President is an idiot. My impression of him in no way reflects the my attitudes towards anything else even remotely American. I just think that Bush, as an individual, is a freaking idiot. Granted, I have similar sentiments towards my own Prime Minister but none so strong as to what I feel towards Bush.

Having said that, I agree with you Freddie, I don't think Bush is responsible for this. Most of his decision making, I assume, is made by his advisors. So I blame them, particularly John Ashcroft and Donald Rumsfeld. The problem isn't with cementing the Christian belief that marriage is between a man and a woman, that is just an application, an effect of the greater problem.

The actual problem is that these people in power are incorporating religion into governance. This neo-conversatist movement is not only bad for the USs internal affairs but is also bad for their external affairs.

[Khartoun2004]

njblondie85, and ypsidan04, Your both absolutely right about the 9th and 10th amendment, however those are the amendments the conservatives feel need to be changed. It all stems from the Gay marriage rights case in the MA supreme court. The right-wing wants to take the power of deciding what marriage is away from states. They are homophobic and the idea of homosexuals getting "married" freaks them out. Also their pissed off at the recent Federal supreme courts decision on the anti-sodomy laws in this country.

I on;y slightly agree with the idea that this is all a publicity stunt on Bush's part. Since he is bottoming out on the polls a statement like this could do him more harm than good. It isn't only gays that are pissed about this bill. A fair amount of people are pissed off about the human rights issues attached to an amendment like this. As my brother would say, this statement is attempted political suicide.

[freddie]

Freddie, I think you're overestimating Bush's intelligence. No offense to any Americans really, but quite frankly I think your President is an idiot.

I didn't say he was inteligent. But it doesn't take a man of great inteligence to figure out that what he's saying is complete BS. I grant you he's not the smartest puppy in the litter though LOL. Although his advisors cough*Rumsfeld*cough are way up there as well.

Just for fun :
http://www.cuechamp.com/grandmaster_bush.ram

The actual problem is that these people in power are incorporating religion into governance. This neo-conversatist movement is not only bad for the USs internal affairs but is also bad for their external affairs.

Yes, but why do they do it? Because religious belives of christianity suit their needs. They are using religion to achieve certain goals.

This is just like Pope Pius who used that same christian belives to start the crussade wars purely for his own self interest - in the process planting a seed of hate between islam and christianity that lasts even today.

That's why I don't like organized religion - it gets raped time and time again by those who have the power.

[spyretto]

Who cares about Bush? He's but a macho pawn and his actions are nothing but the result of his disposition. The only salvation for humanity is not through Bush's errands but through getting in touch with its feminine side. If the world were to be governed by women, it may not have have been as advanced as it is now but surely a much more decent and pleasant place to live.
So the route of all evil is Man himself, whose nature points towards the laws of the jungle. We need to return to the matriarchic society of the past.
I propose Lena Katina and Yulia Volkova for the position of Governors of the Civilised World.
[I also have a hunch that Jesus Christ was indeed a woman..or at least gay.]

[ypsidan04]

Originally posted by spyretto
I propose Lena Katina and Yulia Volkova for the position of Governors of the Civilised World.
[I also have a hunch that Jesus Christ was indeed a woman..or at least gay.]

On the first part, good idea! Anyone with their opinion on war would be a very good person for that job.

On the second part, I also have heard before that Jesus might have been gay, but I haven't said anything because I didn't want to piss off serious Christians.

[spyretto]

He must have been gay because he proclaimed the unprecedented and quite disturbing message of love.

But what does it matter if the Bible condemns homosexuals? The Bible is nothing but the creation of mortal men. It's full of nasty stories and God in the Bible is but the epitome of vengeance and calamity.

Jesus Christ is the only one who preached anything substantial but we, as humanity, haven't exactly taken heed of his words, have we?

[freddie]

But what does it matter if the Bible condemns homosexuals? The Bible is nothing but the creation of mortal men. It's full of nasty stories and God in the Bible is but the epitome of vengeance and calamity.

Jesus Christ is the only one who preached anything substantial but we, as humanity, haven't exactly taken heed of his words, have we?

I'll drink to that. What have we made out of his teachings? We learned how to hate minorities, we learned now to kill millions of innocent people (women and children included) in the name of god, we learned how to take advantage of his teachings and turn it into something wicked. Jesus wasn't a bad man - I consider him a great philosopher and philanthropist. He just couldn't see in advance, for what ill purposes his ideas would be used in the future.

[jENytATy]

i'm quite pissed that a friend of mine forwarded me an email with the link to the article along with the following message made by someone else:

hi, all:

i got this as an urgent prayer request that require us to take action. go to the link and vote and forward to all the christians that you know that
wish to preserve the holy matrimony between man and woman.

and while you do that, lift up a prayer for this confused nation that is now plagued by terrorism abroad and immorality within. every vote counts.

anyhow.. here is the link to the article..

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...age/index.html

so far..the YES vote for the question should marriage be legally defined as only a union between a man and a woman? is leading..

i hope some of you will go and vote NO..

[Khartoun2004]

That's a Big NO! Nyet! Nein! I don't know how to say no any other ways, if I did I would.

[ypsidan04]

I voted no. It's currently 52% to 48% for yes

[Rob]

I'll make this short:
Bush has never been elected by the people, he was put in charge by the majorly conservative and christian judges of the highest court, he doesn't have the intellectual abilities which are needed, he's a dumb bible-swinging cowboy and I'm not surprised about his narrow-minded opinions on certain issues.
Hope he won't get elected again!

And concerning the US-society, I got relatives in the US and they are indeed very different from the family over here in Europe. No idea why but they're totally in church and this crap and I'm getting e-mails from them which can hardly be called intelligent.