Unofficial site of group TATU


Unofficial forum of group TATU
Go Back   Unofficial forum of group TATU General Forum Politics and Science


Slang, result of ignorance or acceptable dialect?


ReplyPost New Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 25-01-2006, 04:52   #41
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
The Dream is Over, :~(
 
PowerPuff Grrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 682

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
Wishing that a specific group of underprivileged children would be taught the correct way to speak a language is not racism, that's called "education".
But why should they be taught how to speak casually with friends and family?

I think Lux is totally right in demanding if anybody actually knew what they hell they were talking about because so far, nobody here does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel
Fortunately most people don't talk like that anymore, that kind of talk died out years ago. Probably because people are taught proper English in schools. I expect the only experience you have of it is over-exaggerated TV shows

I rest my case.
Shame that it died out.
There's a difference from writing a term paper in Cockney/Ebonics and speaking to a neighbour in standard English (whichever standard that is). If both parties conversing with each other understand each other and prefer to speak in some dialect, then they have every reason do so!
What do you want? The language police to come over and give them a fine?

And by over-exaggerated TV shows, you mean Coronation Street. One, I can't watch it (I tried!) because I can't understand what they are saying. And two, in Ottawa, all I hear is the Posh accent from British immigrants, which I am quite frankly getting sick of.

Last edited by PowerPuff Grrl; 25-01-2006 at 05:43.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 04:54   #42
haku haku is offline
iMod
 
haku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Normandie
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,839

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
There's no such thing as "proper English."
Yes, there is. it's the English that is taught in schools in all English-speaking countries and also as a second language in many non-English-speaking countries, the differences are minimal, the spelling, the grammar, the syntax are essentially the same, there are only a few marginal particularities.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 04:58   #43
Rachel Rachel is offline
Ice_Cream
 
Rachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ипсщич, Суффолк, УК
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,831

Send a message via ICQ to Rachel Send a message via AIM to Rachel Send a message via MSN to Rachel Send a message via Yahoo to Rachel Send a message via Skype™ to Rachel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
...the differences are minimal, the spelling, the grammar, the syntax are essentially the same, there are only a few marginal particularities.
Such as "color" and "colour". Also "favourite" and "favorite". That's the only acceptable kinda stuff...

Offtop:
British English looks better in my opinion, but ignore that as it's just my misguided opinion
~~~~~~~~~~~
Tatutaty: "Horny Rachel is her name. Masturbating is her game. Fucking, sucking, licking too. Wouldn't you like some Rachel screw? *batteries not included*"

PuddleQueen | Rachel | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ rm6405@hotmail.com ]

My music playlist on Last.fm
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 05:17   #44
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
The Dream is Over, :~(
 
PowerPuff Grrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 682

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
Yes, there is. it's the English that is taught in schools in all English-speaking countries and also as a second language in many non-English-speaking countries, the differences are minimal, the spelling, the grammar, the syntax are essentially the same, there are only a few marginal particularities.
The fact that there are differences blatantly implies that there is no single authority that can dictate which English is right and which is wrong, (paedophile or pedofile?). This is why there are certain groups that can just make up a word and not get that much flack over it. No standard, no deviation.
E.g. American corporate culture made up the word "proactive."
Lexicons like these are created everywhere and anywhere which can further complicate things. Moreover these are used in casual and professional settings.
Words like these, IMHO, are changing the English language spoken here.
Where's the outrage in this?!

Ebonics is simply shared in a casual manner. Where you got the idea that it was taught in schools is simply ridiculous. Your linking the usage of Ebonics with the deterioration of the public education system is laughable; oh no! It can't possibly be becasue of the effects of Property Taxes and redistricting of communities and rise of private schools with the re-emergence of segregation.

No no, it had to be Fiddy Cent!

Last edited by PowerPuff Grrl; 25-01-2006 at 05:40.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 06:19   #45
haku haku is offline
iMod
 
haku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Normandie
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,839

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
The fact that there are differences blatantly implies that there is no single authority that can dictate which English is right and which is wrong
Well, maybe there should be, seriously, English-speaking countries should think about it, otherwise it will happen to English what happened to Latin and in a century or two from now, English may have diverged into a dozen different languages and people will no longer be able to understand each other.
Like i said in a previous post, the first purpose of a language is communication, and when a language splits into mutually unintelligible dialects, that's not good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
Lexicons like these are created everywhere and anywhere which can further complicate things. Moreover these are used in casual and professional settings.
Words like these, IMHO, are changing the English language spoken here.
Well, there is a difference between creating new words, or even simplifying the spelling (and i've said several times that i do think that English could very much use a spelling reform), and completely diverging from the commonly accepted grammar with expression like 'he my brother' (absence of verb), 'he be talkin' (incorrect conjugation of verbs), or 'he done fought' (past participle directly following a personal pronoun without the use of an auxiliary verb and followed by a past tense, which makes absolutely no grammatical sense whatsoever and not just in English but in any European language).
~~~~~~~~~~~
Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 07:11   #46
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
The Dream is Over, :~(
 
PowerPuff Grrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 682

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
Well, maybe there should be, seriously, English-speaking countries should think about it, otherwise it will happen to English what happened to Latin and in a century or two from now, English may have diverged into a dozen different languages and people will no longer be able to understand each other.
Like i said in a previous post, the first purpose of a language is communication, and when a language splits into mutually unintelligible dialects, that's not good.
Latin died out because it was spread out across three continents without any mode of modern communication and transportation to keep up.
The English language has the luxury of existing in the time of telephone, internet and easy travelling so it is virtually impossible for it to have the same fate of Latin. The only hindrance I see to it lasting is the accent, but it has already been a bit over a hundred years and we're doing alright, thank you.

And perhaps it's my Canadian mentality but I would rather much prefer a democratization of the language by the people who use it. Not some Orwellian rule of language. As long as we understand each other, I don't see what the problem is.

I think what this boils down to really is taste. You can justify it anyway you like but there are several other dialects in the States alone, why you point out Ebonics is beyond me. It is a dialect, bringing up the concern of grammar is a moot point because avoiding proper grammar is part of what a dialect is all about.

Why you point out something that isn't even part of the American standard, that is spoken by and only by a small minority of people, is beyond me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 07:41   #47
KillaQueen KillaQueen is offline
blah
 
KillaQueen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,246

sorry, powerpuff, but i think it's far from being a dialect. it's pure jargon. it uses english words spelled and pronounced differently and defies the rules of grammar in an obnoxious way. it's what most black people in america do in order to differentiate themselves from white people. and this ebonics thing was 'developed' by people with little or no education at all. you just need to hear it or see it spelled to know that. i do agree with cirrus. it can be tolerated (for fun, kicks, laughs), but just as long as people know how to speak proper english as well. or let's say international english. the accent doesn't bother me. i dont consider you butcher english if you have this or that accent. this depends on the sounds you've been taught and used to, and even on physical features (the shape of your oral cavity). but really, i don't think we should grant extra rights to uneducated people, such as this ebonics being taught in school (the idea just makes my skin crawl). and that and only that would make it a dialect. it being recognized officially as that by linguists. and it won't be, trust me. it lacks logical grammatical structure, among other things. plus, again, i don't think uneducated people should have the right to raise their jargon at the level of dialect or, God forbid, language. there's enough stupidity in the world as it is.

Last edited by KillaQueen; 25-01-2006 at 07:55.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 07:54   #48
marina marina is offline
Re-Offender
 
marina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shanghai , China
Posts: 2,103

Doan dis me 'bout how ma gums be flappin' , I bust a cap in yo ass.
'Sides it ain ma fault, I done got dat ebonic plague.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 07:58   #49
KillaQueen KillaQueen is offline
blah
 
KillaQueen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,246

marina,
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 11:15   #50
zelda05 zelda05 is offline
Участник
 
zelda05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: US
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,059

Send a message via MSN to zelda05 Send a message via Yahoo to zelda05
Quote:
Originally Posted by madeldoe
as far as ebonics being taught in schools, the program is designed to cultivate and embrace the African culture
It is taught in schools?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madeldoe
maybe you need to take some ebonics classes
Or listen to rap songs.

Quote:
There's no such thing as "proper English."
Yes, there is. It is so annoying when some people say "you is" instead of "you are" which is a proper English.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Zelda [ yvfootie7@hotmail.com ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 12:53   #51
Lux Lux is offline
kis$ it
 
Lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,125

Send a message via AIM to Lux Send a message via MSN to Lux Send a message via Yahoo to Lux Send a message via Skype™ to Lux
it is definitely not slang. slang is supposedly understand by many but ebonics is not when people here don't even understand it. also, when masses of people communicate via ebonics, it goes beyond just being slang.
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Complete™ forever

I never thought it would be this clear | Lux [ light-ness@hotmail.com ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 13:58   #52
zebu zebu is offline
Участник
 
zebu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Хорватия
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 957

Send a message via MSN to zebu
dont see whats wrong with talking not proper language. u should know it, but speak it only in official occasions.

id die of laughter if i spoke proper croatian with my friends or family.
~~~~~~~~~~~
pogledaj da li me mozes presnimiti
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 14:21   #53
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
pie crust
 
QueenBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792

Offtop:
Quote:
the differences are minimal, the spelling, the grammar, the syntax are essentially the same, there are only a few marginal particularities.
I'm not quite sure if I'm right here, but I've noticed that in the American English it's perfectly okay to write "people that are..." while my teacher (well, old teacher) wouldn't accept that as the British English uses "people who are..."

Quote:
British English looks better in my opinion, but ignore that as it's just my misguided opinion
Lol, I sort of think it looks better aswell but I mostly use American English for some reason...


The only reason to why I dislike such slang is because it reminds me of rap, and, as Rachel said, makes me want to shoot myself.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 14:54   #54
zelda05 zelda05 is offline
Участник
 
zelda05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: US
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,059

Send a message via MSN to zelda05 Send a message via Yahoo to zelda05
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
Offtop:
I'm not quite sure if I'm right here, but I've noticed that in the American English it's perfectly okay to write "people that are..." while my teacher (well, old teacher) wouldn't accept that as the British English uses "people who are..."
Offtop:
In an essay, teachers/professors would much prefer if students write "people who are.." sentence instead of "people that are."
~~~~~~~~~~~
Zelda [ yvfootie7@hotmail.com ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 15:14   #55
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
pie crust
 
QueenBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792

Offtop:
zelda05, I can sort of see where they're coming from But my teacher said we shouldn't even *speak* like that, so that's where I got confused.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 16:57   #56
Kappa Kappa is offline
Harrumph.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 忍者村
Posts: 3,272

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel
Nice to know you want me dead
Not dead, just think ebonics is a lousy reason to bring a gun to your mouth.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 17:01   #57
Rachel Rachel is offline
Ice_Cream
 
Rachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ипсщич, Суффолк, УК
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,831

Send a message via ICQ to Rachel Send a message via AIM to Rachel Send a message via MSN to Rachel Send a message via Yahoo to Rachel Send a message via Skype™ to Rachel
Offtop:
I'm sure you'll find another reason to get it there.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Tatutaty: "Horny Rachel is her name. Masturbating is her game. Fucking, sucking, licking too. Wouldn't you like some Rachel screw? *batteries not included*"

PuddleQueen | Rachel | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ rm6405@hotmail.com ]

My music playlist on Last.fm
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 17:15   #58
Kappa Kappa is offline
Harrumph.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 忍者村
Posts: 3,272

Offtop:
*checks self to still be self, under armpits, under shirt, in pants*

Nope, I'm still not Mossopp. Miss her that much?
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 17:24   #59
Rachel Rachel is offline
Ice_Cream
 
Rachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ипсщич, Суффолк, УК
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,831

Send a message via ICQ to Rachel Send a message via AIM to Rachel Send a message via MSN to Rachel Send a message via Yahoo to Rachel Send a message via Skype™ to Rachel
Offtop:
No, but I'm sure you do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
And by over-exaggerated TV shows, you mean Coronation Street. One, I can't watch it (I tried!) because I can't understand what they are saying.
Sorry, I missed this post. Coronation Street?!! I thought we were talking about Cockney?!! Coronation Street is supposed to be up-north! What bits don't you understand? Surely it's just an accent, they don't have their own little language where they change a few letters in each word to make themselves sound tough
~~~~~~~~~~~
Tatutaty: "Horny Rachel is her name. Masturbating is her game. Fucking, sucking, licking too. Wouldn't you like some Rachel screw? *batteries not included*"

PuddleQueen | Rachel | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ rm6405@hotmail.com ]

My music playlist on Last.fm
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2006, 17:29   #60
Kappa Kappa is offline
Harrumph.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 忍者村
Posts: 3,272

Offtop:
On a second thought, why do I even bother? Next thing you come off with will be even lamer, and I'm not in the mood to start discussing with a world reknown forum whore.
  Reply With Quote
ReplyPost New Thread

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:03.




© 2001-2008 Unofficial site of group TATU

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.