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21-03-2005, 00:42 | #21 |
Sad Little Monkey
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I thought it was kind of a given that man wrote the Bible, just like every other religious work out there. I mean... there's no proof of God, while there is circumstantial historic proof that man did write it. We're walking on touchy ground here with deeply religious people, but even most of them these days aren't blind enough to say that the Bible is literaly the "word of God". And it is true as well, what you said about translations: it was translated from hebrew to greek, then from greek to latin and from latin to other languages. Every new edition had it's added and/or misinterpreted parts. You lost HUGE amount of information (and meaning) with only one translation, let alone 3. Most people who're well familiar with the bible would be surprised how different the translations coming DIRECTLY from hebrew are. Because the official version is still latin one - which was altered through 2 translations already.
Think of it like this: We had Friends (the Sit-Com), on Slovene TV. Most people who don't understand english just didn't get it, despite the subtitles. You have to know a langauge not just grammatically, but also have a deep social understanding of it. Many puns and jokes faded away, or sounded not quite right, once you read the slovene subtitle. Were I only to understand Slovene and relly on the subtitles only, I'd think the show SUCKED. And we're talking about a country that isn't removied in time from us, and we pretty much have the same/similar habits and social behaviours... and such a simple thing as a Sit-Com is almost impossible to translate to another language. Now imagine trying to translate a religious text, that was written by some other culture, using another language, following different social paterns and behaviours and even hundreds of years removed in time from the country of the texts origin... and you'd pretty much get the situation of the Bible first "alteration" when it was translated from hebrew to greek. And mind you that another alteration like that followed, with it's translation to latin. A completely different culture again, and again removed in time, It's surprising anything at all stayed like it was in the original. About the other thing: yeah, catholics are HUGE hypocrits. They'll apply those religious rules when they serve a purpose to them, and when they don't, they'll just ignore. Christianity is quickly becoming the Budhism of the 21st century. A fad. Take from it what pleases you and disregard the rest. Looking at it from the bigger picture just makes things to complicated for most people. |
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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21-03-2005, 09:16 | #22 |
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Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Arameic.
New Testament was written in Greek. I agree on the translations' issue and I'd like to add that according to the research, the story was written down many years after Jesus' death. It simply was passed from mouth to mouth. Existence of multiple religions speaks against existence of God in itself. If God really wanted to pass a message to people, it would simply make everyone heard, I mean - every single person living that time. God is enough powerful, I suppose, to perform that trick. So what's all farce about the Bible, Koran and other scripts? It was the tool of getting power over people and since that time the idea of different gods and different super powers was popular and well accepted, it was the easiest way for any leader to use this idea to establish its power. What about all miracles and healers and wonders in this life? Hmmm .. what about electicity, heart transplantation, black holes and a man walking on the Moon? Show that to anyone 1000 years ago and be their new god. What do I want to say by this? We learned and discovered many interesting things during the centuries and we will continue our research because we will always want a goddamn good explanation. That's in our nature, isn't it? If to measure in centuries, religion is singing its last song. It simply won't be able to correspond to the modern societies so sooner or later any religion will loose any sense at all. We are evolving intellectually too and our morality doesn't necessarilly need to be based on religious teachings. We can be good, kind and helping not because God said this and that and we are afraid to be punished by it, but because that's the only way to experience the joy of life. Positive emotions are very good natural stimulators. I know, I didn't say anything new. People have known that for centuries. Adds: Sorry, forgot about the initial subject. Execution is a one-way road. It can't be undone. If by a mistake a person who didn't do THAT gets executed, we can hardly speak about any justice at all. It's another murder in the name of justice and God and whatever. It's a huge dilemma for many juridical structures - how do deal with mentally retarted people and psycho cases. |
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Olga | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ ritzer@hotmail.com ] Latest News: | Tatu gallery | Current News | News Archive Last edited by forre; 21-03-2005 at 10:42. |
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21-03-2005, 15:57 | #23 |
Bitchka
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Interesting subject you've started here .... I will not say much right now ... but I am currently reading Foucault's "Discipline and Punish" .. very interesting, and well fitting in your discussion .... maybe when i feel a bit 'smarter' about the subject after reading it, i will come and discuss
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21-03-2005, 22:13 | #24 | |
OG
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21-03-2005, 22:41 | #25 | ||
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22-03-2005, 02:19 | #26 | |
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22-03-2005, 06:20 | #27 |
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bpro50, I said it was. The things have changed now. Religions have been adapted to serve the goals of politicians through those years and that hardly can be called "wrong account of history".
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23-03-2005, 00:58 | #28 | ||||
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Soviets and Chinese predicted removal of religion. Didn't quite happen. Quote:
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23-03-2005, 06:17 | #29 | |||||
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Olga | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ ritzer@hotmail.com ] Latest News: | Tatu gallery | Current News | News Archive Last edited by forre; 23-03-2005 at 08:38. |
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23-03-2005, 09:45 | #30 | |||||||
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Just because people aren't religious anymore doesn't mean they'll stop believing murder is wrong. And that murder is wrong is based on religion. Quote:
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Open your eyes. Anytime you have something aproaching fair elections in muslim world islamic parties win. Quote:
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23-03-2005, 15:34 | #31 | ||||||
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Olga | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ ritzer@hotmail.com ] Latest News: | Tatu gallery | Current News | News Archive Last edited by forre; 23-03-2005 at 16:25. |
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23-03-2005, 18:11 | #32 | |||||||
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If the term is hijacked and abused it doesn't change it's meaning. Quote:
History of attempts to destroy a religion is history of failures. Only way to destroy religion is to kill everybody who is believer. This, however, worked several times. Quote:
Besides Western culture is called judeo-christian. I wonder why, if our morals aren't based on religion. |
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Ho, ho, ho. Santa is in town. And he has a list of naughty girls. Proud "no club member" club member Life sucks so why don't you just drop your pants and enjoy it? Tatysite, love or leave it. And don't bother complaining, thread will be closed. |
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23-03-2005, 18:50 | #33 |
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Okay, the discussion here is narrowed down to two issues.
1. Moral is formed by religion. 2. Religion is on the rise/fall. 1. Religion didn't create any morality. Morality is a constantly changing category. Religion applies its morality to serve its goals. Jihad is turned into murder, catholic church has burnt thousands of people just because they didn't believe in God, holy crusades were done in the name of God. So, religion is a tool to excersice the power. 2. It is in Europe and Europe is a big part of the world. It's the most advanced too (along with the Satates, Australia and Japan). Russia was more religious before its revolution than now and statistically the religion is simply restoring itself there. It was gone for a century - artificially. It depends on how you look at the statistics. Now, back to the executions. How could it happen that USA, Asia and Middle East are more religious than Europe and can't come to the point to abolish executions while Europe could do it? Where is logic? |
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23-03-2005, 19:01 | #34 | |||||||
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Religion is on the rise in US. It may be in decline in Europe. Don't know about Japan and Australia. It's on the rise in muslim countries. It's on the rise in Africa. Quote:
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Ho, ho, ho. Santa is in town. And he has a list of naughty girls. Proud "no club member" club member Life sucks so why don't you just drop your pants and enjoy it? Tatysite, love or leave it. And don't bother complaining, thread will be closed. |
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23-03-2005, 19:23 | #35 | |
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Russia and China has a different story I said. The religion isn't on the rise there if to take a 300 years span. If you take a 100 years span - it is on the rise but not really on the rise - sooner on resurrection, i.e. back from the dead. Africa has always been extremely religious and it's the least developed region of the world too. What do you want from people those think that having a sexual intercourse with a child can heal AIDS? As for the States? A phenomena for sure. "Eye for an eye concept" - shouldn't even be there. Murder is a murder, that's it. You don't need to apply religion to realise that. |
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23-03-2005, 19:31 | #36 | ||||||
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As for murder being murder. True. It remains open what punishment should there be. Why are people saying state is murdering people with death penalty but they don't say state kidnaps them when they are put in prison? |
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Ho, ho, ho. Santa is in town. And he has a list of naughty girls. Proud "no club member" club member Life sucks so why don't you just drop your pants and enjoy it? Tatysite, love or leave it. And don't bother complaining, thread will be closed. |
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23-03-2005, 19:38 | #37 |
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Why do I say that? Because if to take a 300 time span - religion was prevailing in all countries of the world. Now we have a different picture. I don't speak about Christian or Islamic trends, I speak about different religions.
So a man uses religion to achieve its goals? Who did create religion and for what? |
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23-03-2005, 19:57 | #38 | |||
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Want to say religion is in decline in Europe recently? Fine, that's true? Want to say religion is in decline overall? That's not true. Quote:
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Ho, ho, ho. Santa is in town. And he has a list of naughty girls. Proud "no club member" club member Life sucks so why don't you just drop your pants and enjoy it? Tatysite, love or leave it. And don't bother complaining, thread will be closed. |
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23-03-2005, 20:13 | #39 | |
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23-03-2005, 23:52 | #40 | ||
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Ho, ho, ho. Santa is in town. And he has a list of naughty girls. Proud "no club member" club member Life sucks so why don't you just drop your pants and enjoy it? Tatysite, love or leave it. And don't bother complaining, thread will be closed. |
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