Turkey - General discussion

[haku]

Will Bush ever shut up?

Bush says Turkish EU membership is in US interest.

Oh really? Wow. I'm convinced now.

Seriously, someone should remind this clown that he's not in charge of the EU (not yet anyway). It's up to EU Member States *only* to decide which countries will join or not and 'US interest' has no relevance whatsoever in this decision. This is a blatant and unacceptable interference in EU internal matters, not that Bush has ever had any problem with meddling in other peoples internal matters (though i thought sodomy was illegal in Texas), the guy obviously thinks he's president of the world.
Could the next US president be given a quick geography course so he knows where his jurisdiction ends, that'd be nice.

freddie: I think this topic deserves another thread. If any of the mods disagree feel free to reincorporate the discussion into the former thread.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by haku

Bush says Turkish EU membership is in US interest.

Even more reason to not let Turkey join. He doesn't give a shit about any country other than his own. "Screw others, it's only us that matters."

[freddie]

He just said it's in their INTEREST. Which surely it is. That doesn't mean they'll pressure the EU or it's institutions to accept Turkey prematurely. Even if they wanted I don't even believe the US has such a vast diplomatic influence over us.

[fanoff]

hey im not the one to defend Bush or something but when you are the president of the most powerful country of the world,you are to control others.That was always like that,even before like the Otttoman period or English thingy before the World War 1.Im not for him when he says that either but everyone is allowed to say something,even if its Bush that we are talking about.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by fanoff

hey im not the one to defend Bush or something but when you are the president of the most powerful country of the world,you are to control others.That was always like that,even before like the Otttoman period or English thingy before the World War 1.Im not for him when he says that either but everyone is allowed to say something,even if its Bush that we are talking about.

I agree with you on that point. She has teh right to say whatever he likes. I just think maybe it's a bit... clumsy to say it, from a diplomatic point of view. Cause many Europeans are very touchy (as they should be!) when it comes to people telling them what to do and many will infact perceive this as him telling us what to do.

[the unforgiven]

Originally Posted by freddie

I just think maybe it's a bit... clumsy to say it, from a diplomatic point of view.

yep just a little bit, especially when french president (our famous Jacques Chirac hehe lol) said few days ago that it's important for Turkish to admit they're responsible for the Armenian genocide and that would be better to say it before enter the EU
George W. Bush speech sounds a little bit like that "who cares about what european "rulers" said, it's US interest so step off b*tch" lol (it's too much but it's the idea, understand what I mean? ... now I'm the clumsy one )
Plus, today I saw on euronews that Mrs Rice thinks it's better to change the Palestinian government blablalba, omg!! americans are everywhere. Why they don't wanna change government of Israel? not in US interest? and what about the Lebanon's interest, huh?
just to set an exemple, no offense

edit : I know the Palestinian government is not a good one, but it just to show that with acting like that Americans just show that what they're saying should be done, no matter of the others lalalala (and on euronews this morning, nobody mentioned that Europeans are against this government too ... get it?)

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by freddie

That doesn't mean they'll pressure the EU or it's institutions to accept Turkey prematurely

Are you really that naive?

Originally Posted by fanoff

but when you are the president of the most powerful country of the world,you are to control others.

Nice to see you like a lovely dictatorship I don't want your Turkish "values" to join us. Sorry!

[fanoff]

Originally Posted by freddie

many Europeans are very touchy (as they should be!)

why are they telliing us the things they know we'll never do!!

Originally Posted by the unforgiven

french president (our famous Jacques Chirac hehe lol) said few days ago that it's important for Turkish to admit they're responsible for the Armenian genocide and that would be better to say it before enter the EU

And thats clumsy to say it too!!!

Originally Posted by Rachel

I don't want your Turkish "values" to join us. Sorry!

i dont really give a shit to this,and i dont give a shit to that one too but Blair does want it badly!

[the unforgiven]

Originally Posted by fanoff

Quote:
Originally Posted by the unforgiven
french president (our famous Jacques Chirac hehe lol) said few days ago that it's important for Turkish to admit they're responsible for the Armenian genocide and that would be better to say it before enter the EU

And thats clumsy to say it too!!!

may be, but it's true
in France, there's demonstration against this genocide made by Turkish people ... Hello, there was a genocide!!
Germany admited the Jewish genocide of WW2, omg!! it seems that they made an error
I think it's important to respect all innocent who were killed, stuff like human rights blablabla

[crazy malchik]

serbia is never going to join EU!

[fanoff]

Originally Posted by the unforgiven

Hello, there was a genocide!!

Hi,im not the one to talk about it here but there was not a real genocide!(lol the meaning of the word has been declared years after that issue)and there werent 1500000 ppl killed,and the killed ppl was not only Armenians,Turkish people have been killed on their own ground!The western big countries in that age offered the Armenian a government and they were doing bad things to the Turkish ones they lived with peace and silence.They were provoked against us.And the government in that period decided that the armenians move into a place that they cant attack Turkish people.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by fanoff

...but Blair does want it badly!

Blair will be gone by next summer, thankfully He's the guy who joined America for an illegal war, his opinion means pretty much zilch in this country at the moment, believe me!

Oh and nice to see Turkish propaganda is still thriving!

[fanoff]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Blair will be gone by next summer, thankfully He's the guy who joined America for an illegal war, his opinion means pretty much zilch in this country at the moment, believe me!

Oh and nice to see Turkish propaganda is still thriving!

I already said i didnt give a shit to that.Oh and really nice to see people who are judging and stating our membership!

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by fanoff

I already said i didnt give a shit to that.Oh and really nice to see people who are judging and stating our membership!

Originally Posted by fanoff

...but everyone is allowed to say something.

So everything is fine unless the opinion is negative, right?

[haku]

Yeah, there was no Armenian genocide. Only the Turks still believe that.

And anyway, when something leads to the death of so many people (1 million as a conservative number), it doesn't really matter if you call it genocide or 'relocation' as the Turks put it, it's still a crime.

A modern democracy should be able to acknowledge crimes commited by former regimes, and obviously Turkey is far from that stage yet. Hell, Turkey still won't even recognize the existence of Cyprus (not to mention withdraw its troups that illegally occupy a part of that country) even though it's now an EU Member, that shows the level of denial and stubbornness that country is capable of.

Originally Posted by crazy malchik

serbia is never going to join EU!

It will eventually, but not anytime soon, maybe somewhere around 2015-2020.

[fanoff]

Originally Posted by Rachel

So everything is fine unless the opinion is negative, right?

oh no,everyone can speak any word they can put out of their f*cking mouths.i still dont give a shit.

http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/index.html visit it!

"Do you believe that any massacres would have taken place if no Armenian revolutionaries had come into the country and incited the Armenian population to rebellion?" I asked Mr. Graves (The British Consul).

"Certainly not" he replied. "I do not believe that a single Armenian would have been killed".

[Khartoun2004]

My personal opinion on whether or not Turkey will be join the EU anytime in the near future is, only if they change their entire polictical ideology to align themselves with the rest of Europe. Putting aside everything else, the difference in Ideologies is the real reason Turkey will never join the EU. The rest is just bullshit, otherwise the UK wouldn't be members either because the English have always isolated themselves to a certain degree from the rest of Europe, politically and economically.

[fanoff]

Offtop:
Some of the people who have been killed by Armenians on their duty!!!Do you really think that i am lying?

27.01.1973 Santa Barbara / Consul General Mehmet BAYDAR
Santa Barbara / Consul Bahadır DEMİR
22.10.1975 Vienna / Ambassador Daniş TUNALIGİL
24.10.1975 Paris / Ambassador İsmail EREZ
Paris / Driver Talip YENER
16.02.1976 Beirut / First Secretary Oktar CİRİT

09.06.1977 Vatican City / Ambassador Taha CARIM
02.06.1978 Madrid / Ambassador’s wife Necla KUNERALP
Madrid / Retired Ambassador Beşir BALCIOĞLU
12.10.1979 The Hague / Ambassador’s son Ahmet BENLER
22.12.1979 Paris / Tourism Counsellor Yılmaz ÇOLPAN
31.07.1980 Athens / Administrative Attache Galip ÖZMEN
Athens / Administrative Attaché’s daughter Neslihan ÖZMEN
17.12.1980 Sydney / Consul General Şarık ARIYAK
Sydney / Security Attaché Engin SEVER

04.03.1981
Paris / Counsellor for Labour Affairs Reşat MORALI
Paris / Counsellor for Religious Affairs Tecelli ARI
09.06.1981 Geneva / Secretary M.Savaş YERGÜZ
24.09.1981 Paris / Security Attaché Cemal ÖZEN
28.01.1982 Los Angeles / Consul General Kemal ARIKAN
08.04.1982 Ottawa / Counsellor for Commercial Affairs Kani GÜNGÖR
04.05.1982 Boston / Honorary Consul General Orhan GÜNDÜZ
07.06.1982 Lisbon / Administrative Attaché Erkut AKBAY
27.08.1982 Ottawa /Colonel, Military Attaché Atilla ALTIKAT
09.09.1982 Bourgas / Administrative Attaché Bora SÜELKAN
08.01.1983 Lisbon / Administrative Attaché’s wife, wounded in the armed assault directed against her husband Erkut Akbay on 07 06 1982, died on 08 01 1983 Nadide AKBAY
09.03.1983 Belgrade / Ambassador Galip BALKAR
14.07.1983 Brussels / Administrative Attaché Dursun AKSOY
27.07.1983 Lisbon / Counsellor’s wife Cahide MIHÇIOĞLU
28.04.1984 Teheran / Secretary’s wife Işık YÖNDER
20.06.1984 Vienna / Attaché for Labour Affairs Erdoğan ÖZEN
19.11.1984 Vienna / International Official Enver ERGUN
07.10.1991 Athens / Press Attaché Çetin GÖRGÜ
11.12.1993 Baghdad / Administrative Attaché Çağlar YÜCEL
04.07.1994 Athens / Embassy Counsellor Haluk SİPAHİOĞLU


Athens/Greece

31 July 1980

Turkey’s Athens Embassy Administrative Attaché Galip Özmen and his 14-year-old daughter Neslihan Özmen were killed in an armed attack by a terrorist while his wife Sevil Özmen and son Kaan Özmen survived though seriously wounded. The attack was owned this time by the ASALA.

[the unforgiven]

Offtop:

Originally Posted by fanoff

Some of the people who have been killed by Armenians on their duty!!!Do you really think that i am lying?

I think nobody says you're a liar ^^
every country in the world had killed people etc etc no need to prove anything
you really think there's no Armenian genocide? ok it's your opinion
if you don't give a shit about what people say, why don't you keep on answering? lol no offense
we can have different opinions, that's all

[Khartoun2004]

Originally Posted by fanoff

Hi,im not the one to talk about it here but there was not a real genocide!(lol the meaning of the word has been declared years after that issue)and there werent 1500000 ppl killed,and the killed ppl was not only Armenians,Turkish people have been killed on their own ground!

yeah ok if there was no "Armenian" genocide, then the Holocaust wasn't genocide based on your reasoning because more than just Jews died. There also wasn't a genocide in Kosovo either. I'm sorry but your reason dosen't make any sense. The number of people or amount of ethnic groups killed doesn't matter... IT IS STILL GENOCIDE!

They were provoked against us. And the government in that period decided that the armenians move into a place that they cant attack Turkish people.

That still doesn't make it right. The Germans told the world the Holocaust was a "re-location" of the Jews also. It's nothing more than semantics. Call it re-location or whatever you want. Either way it's genocide pure and simple. Oh and by the way, the Darfur genocide was also called a "re-location".