Transgender student runs for prom king

freddie · 22-04-2007, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Perhaps you should spend more time learning how to talk about biology in English than learning how to cuss people out then?

- It is not my fault that you cannot explain it, so please don't scream at me.

I think she explained it rather coherently, don't you think? There are exceptions to the xy=male, xx=female fenotype rule.

Anyway... that's not even the point. Point being... who are we to represent some moral authority on the subject of gender? You are what you feel you are, I'd say. And this is a social event, don't forget not a competitive sport (I'd have reservations as well if a girl who was a fuy once tried to compete at the Olympics... there ARE certain male traits remaining which could possibly enhance the athletic performance, but do those traits really matter in everyday life?). In a social environment she feels like a guy. She wants her environment to accept her as a guy, so... why not just let her be a guy then?

Edit: Play nice, kids. No insulting plzthnx

Kyro · 22-04-2007, 22:05

Offtop:

Quote:

Originally Posted by the unforgiven

XXY XXX XO etc etc that's what I talk about! you f*ckin moron! I'm not a native english speaker! (I mean I can't explain it to you correctly ... except if you're fluent in french)

Quote:

Originally Posted by the unforgiven

1/20 000 people who have XY can have a female phenotype

I think these are explained quite well here and here

I really don't see why there should be any problem with a trans guy running for prom king. I strongly believe that if he identifies as male he should be accepted as such and allowed to do anything that any biological male would be able to do without question. As freddie mentioned, the only time when something like this should possibly be an issue is where they would have an unfair advantage in a serious competition.

Amy_Lee_Rocks · 22-04-2007, 22:07

Isnt there a law in California saying that whatever gender you
consider urself is the gender you are?
My french teacher was telling us that
last year..I thought it was kinda kool..but makes me
wonder if some guys consider themselves girls just to
go into the girls restroom and get some eye loving girls.

Talyubittu · 22-04-2007, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy_Lee_Rocks

Isnt there a law in California saying that whatever gender you
consider urself is the gender you are?
My french teacher was telling us that
last year..I thought it was kinda kool..but makes me
wonder if some guys consider themselves girls just to
go into the girls restroom and get some eye loving girls.

Yes, gender identity laws.

But you are not allowed to just call yourself a girl and walk into a female restroom if you want to. You have to actually live the lifestyle of the said gender, otherwise you can get into serious trouble. But yes, a male who gender identifies as a female can use a female restroom.

- I guess looking at this from a more humanitarian perspective. I can see why all the negativity is being directed at my posts. I suppose I was a little cruel it what I was saying, but it's honestly how I feel. I'm sorry that it's a different opinion than most of you have, but I cannot help the way I think towards this matter, no more than this girl can help wanting to be a man. It's just a mindset that I have, and I am honestly not trying to be a jerk to anyone. I apologize if I upset you. Unforgiven and I talked this out in a PM and we're ok now, I hope no hard feelings progress from this from anyone. :-/

chaz · 22-04-2007, 22:28

Gosh, u take it sooooo far, just becaus she is phisically female she is not allowed to run for king? C´mon, its just the prom, nothing complicated, she should be allowed, and thats it.
Besides, juts becase someone hasnt got the genital sex change, doesnt mean they are still completely female still, and, just because their sexual orentation doesnt match their phisicall apperance or genetic sex, but it does math their "mind sex", makes them "gay/lesbian"
the unforgiven, i got u, Im a med student myself, and I hate when ppl talk without any base
Anyways, this is juts my opinion, argueing its not gonna change someones opinion.

QueenBee · 22-04-2007, 23:50

I think some people are being a bit harsh here. I can't understand why we should feel the need to rip Talyubittu into pieces just because he doesn't think girls should run for prom king. Honestly you guys, we're supposed to be an open-minded group here but when someone mentions something that doesn't fit into our happy little place, everyone goes nuts!

Talyubittu · 23-04-2007, 00:41

Thank you Queenie.

Chaz - it's ok for someone form an opinion about something without having gone through medical school. Belive it or not, I have some knowledge of genetics and therefore am allowed to state my own opinion based on that. If you have knolwedge that goes higher than mine, please contribute. But don't snag at someone just because you have a year or so of studying in medicine and they don't.

Khartoun2004 · 23-04-2007, 02:54

Offtop:
Queenie and Cools techniquely you are both right. I'm Bisexual

The Unforgiven is actually right on the mark. A person's chromosomal sex (xx, xy, xxy, ect.) does not necessarily translate into xx=female or xy=male. And to further the point, there is actually scientific evidence that in Transsexuals there is a difference between the sex of their brain and the sex of their genitals. I have the lovely Ducth to thank for that bit of research, they did a study of MtF's and found that their brains were identical to those of biological females and the same goes for FtMs.

Gender is not dependent on biologicalo sex anyway Talyubittu, the actual definitition of gender (lifted directly from all of my Psychology books) is a persons emotional, cultural and cognitive understanding of whether they are male or female. It has nothing to with biology. Sex however has everything to with biology. Gender and sex do not always match.

In terms of sex, you actually have two; Chromosomal Sex and Endocinological sex. The latter deals with your hormone levels. Are your levels of Estrogen and Testosterone (everyone has both) in the male range (more T than E) or in the female range (more E than T)? It's actually quite easily change through IntraMuscular injections of the opposite sex's main hormore. Once you change the body's chemistry there is no clear difference between a trans person and a non-transperson, except for their genitalia which is a very small part of the equation as I said before.

volk1 · 23-04-2007, 03:38

I think she should be allowed to run as prom king. I mean...it's prom...it's only high school. And...she was NOMINATED as prom king. So if a certain percentage of the student body would like to see her as their prom king, let it happen. The world will not end.

However, I do agree with Talyubittu that she is still a female. Maybe she identifies as being male, but...biologically she is female. Maybe not psychologically, but def. biologically. Her body is that of a female and will remain as such unless she gets some sort of procedure done to change all of her internal and external organs to those of a male. What she feels she is has no jurisdiction over what nature has made her (again, excluding the psychological aspect). For example, I truly feel in my heart of hearts that I am utterly and completely awesome...now, that doesn't necessarily mean I am, right? Because, biologically, I could just be a real douche-bag and have over-confidence issues. lol, just kidding, bad example I know. But in all seriousness, don't tear me apart for this, it's just my opinion, so you kids can cool your jets!

Aside from all this, I still feel she is completely in her rights to run and win the title of prom king.

Amy_Lee_Rocks · 23-04-2007, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by volk1

I truly feel in my heart of hearts that I am utterly and completely awesome...now, that doesn't necessarily mean I am, right? Because, biologically, I could just be a real douche-bag and have over-confidence issues. lol, just kidding, bad example I know

Offtop:
LMFAO!!!

chaz · 23-04-2007, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Thank you Queenie.

Chaz - it's ok for someone form an opinion about something without having gone through medical school. Belive it or not, I have some knowledge of genetics and therefore am allowed to state my own opinion based on that. If you have knolwedge that goes higher than mine, please contribute. But don't snag at someone just because you have a year or so of studying in medicine and they don't.

Offtop:
I should ve placed what I said ato the unforgiven in off topic hahaha, i wasnt refering to you, I was thinking or sayin it, cuz here, in my country, there are lots and lots of rumors regarding the use of medical substances or remedies ( things like using hair to ease the redness in the eyes pr stuff like that) xD

I dont think that you are wrong, we just have differet opinions about it, I think girls running for prom king its nothing important, u think that should not happen, and i was just saying that a person who thinks that their geder its not what their body or genetics tell them, but hasnnt gone trough a sex change operation, and their sexual orientation is not the one that matches their genes, meand they are gaylesbian, they r just like that cuz they are not in the "right" gender (independiently if u think thats ok or not)

Anyway, I think Khartoun2004 said it ALOT better than I

coolasfcuk · 23-04-2007, 05:05

: puke :

dradeel · 23-04-2007, 14:18

I see no problem in her running as a prom king. I mean, she might look hotter than all the guys... It's possible. It's just about looking good, and in what style you're dressing. Noone can see a penis or a vagina through the cloths anyways, assuming noone is having a boner (and if you're not extremely well equipped

) So in that case I think all girls could run for prom king, as long as their dressing like the typical one.

Talyubittu · 23-04-2007, 19:41

Do female related laws apply to people who gender identify as male?

Khartoun2004 · 24-04-2007, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Do female related laws apply to people who gender identify as male?

Since when are there "gender" related laws?

Talyubittu · 25-04-2007, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khartoun2004

Since when are there "gender" related laws?

There are, and have been for awhile...for example.

If this girl claimed her gender identity was Male. Could she go around topless?

freddie · 25-04-2007, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

There are, and have been for awhile...for example.

If this girl claimed her gender identity was Male. Could she go around topless?

What's that got to do with LAW?

Offtop:
On the other hand you're right. There are of course gender related laws. Even the preambules of most modern constitutions declare that women's place is in the kitchen where she can ponder what to cook while the husband's out inventing things.

Talyubittu · 25-04-2007, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddie

What's that got to do with LAW?

Most places I have been to don't allow women to expose their breasts in public unless they are breast feeding...

freddie · 25-04-2007, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Most places I have been to don't allow women to expose their breasts in public unless they are breast feeding...

That's not a law though, is it? Correct me if I'm wrong, cause I don't know much about American legislature, I do know though that we have no such laws... people don't do it since it's common sense. Of course owners of bars and restaurants have every right to make their own internal regulatory rules of conduct since it's their place – but I doubt places like that would be to fond of having shirtless guys around neither.

Infact – at least in the EU - laws (and I mean laws as in national or EU legislature) that'd allow sexual discrimination of anykind are null and void.

Talyubittu · 25-04-2007, 08:56

Differen't in America.

We have indecent exposure laws. I.E. - Public Nudity. Which is illegal.

For example, in many states it's Illegal for a woman to be topless in public. In Ohio however, it's not.

_________________________________________

At a dance club, most guys are allowed to dance without shirts, but women cannot.