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Russian lyrics are uber confusing to me


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Old 02-04-2003, 08:09   #1
FadingAway FadingAway is offline
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Unhappy Russian lyrics are uber confusing to me

Yes I know these lyrics have been transcribed before and are readily available. I'm doing this for my own interest and curiousity.

I was attemping to methodically break down the lyrics of Я сошла с ума today in hopes of strengthening my little knowledge of Russian. I didn't use any online translators, just a Russian-English/English-Russian dictionary and my limited knowledge of Russian and English grammar. I have a few questions though. While they may seem idiotic to everyone else, the resources for these lyrics online seem to give the closest or best-fitting English equivilents, not the litteral translation. So here goes nothing. Feel free to only answer the ones you feel like, by no means to you have to labor over answers for these exhausting questions.

Я сошла с ума
Ya soshla s uma

я - NOM 1st person singular personal pronoun, I
сошла - ? (thought -ла might signify a perfective past verb that was in agreement with ума)
сходить с ума - to go mad
ум - mind, wit, intellect (ума is either feminine and/or in agreement with сошла)
с - prep., from, off, since (with gen.)

I'm guessing с ума or even сошла с ума is one complete idea or phrase in itself in Russian and not meant to be translated word for word. I've seen "I'm going mad", "I've lost my mind", and "I'm going out of my mind". If сошла is a perfective past verb, I would think it would have to be "I have (I've) ..." for starters. Obviously I have no clue but I think it might be something like "I've left from (my) mind" which would closely mean "I've gone mad" or "I've lost my mind."

Мне нужиа она
Mne nuzhna ona

мне - PREP/DAT 1st person singular personal pronoun, I
нужиа - need
она - NOM 3rd person singular personal pronoun, she

Being that the nomative is the subject of the sentence, that would make она the subject of this line. I'm guessing that "I need her" is a very filtered translation. Wondering if it would be more like "She is needed to me" or something along that line.

Меня полностью нет
Menya polnast'yu nyet

меня - ACC/GEN 1st person singular personal pronoun, I
полностью - completely, in full
нет - ?

First off I'm not sure if меня is accusative or genitive in this sentence. For the translation "I'm completely lost" to work, нет must be some kind of negation, not a word ("I'm completely not?"). The word lost (затерянный, потерянный) isn't in the line so I'm guessing it's just there for coherency. I've also seen "I'm completely gone" as well if that helps anyone.

Без тебя меня нет
Bez tebya menya nyet

без - prep. + GEN, without
тебя - ACC/GEN 2nd person singular personal pronoun, you
меня - ACC/GEN 1st person singular personal pronoun, I
нет - not

I get as much as "Without you I ..." but I'm not quite sure how you can use меня нет to get "I don't exist" as stated on most lyric sites. I know нет can sometimes be used for extra emphasis while negating a verb like не, but that doesn't make much sense in this sentence. I'm lost on how it could be anything more then "Without you I'm not" which I could then see being translated as "Without you I don't exist" for coherency.

In the line Я куда-то лечу, куда-то (I believe) serves as an indefinate adverb which I understand to mean "somewhere." The line is translated "I'm flying away" in every translation I've seen, but I believe it's litterally translated as "I'm flying somewhere." Know what I mean?

In the line Абсолютно всерьез, is Абсолютно a neuter short adjective making it an adverb (I remember reading this)?

Last question. In the line Я себя не пойму, себя is an accusative reflexive pronoun modifying Я meaning myself correct?
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Old 02-04-2003, 09:26   #2
narayana narayana is offline
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Это все еще с царских времен...

Это все еще с царских времен...осталось, когда на Руси мы самих себя на Вы называли и обращались к себе в третьем лице...
Вам это, батенька, надочь Гоголей почитать..с

С почитаньецем!
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Old 03-04-2003, 00:37   #3
FadingAway FadingAway is offline
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Hehe, notice my limited knowedge in Russian I'm flattered you might think I know what you said but in reality all I got was a headache LOL! I tried a translator as well and you have to read this:
Quote:
This still from the tsarist times... ostalos', when in Russia we
ourselves on you nazyvali obrashchalis' to ourselves in the third
person... To you this, baten'ka, to milk the golden-eyes of
pochitat'..s

Pochitan'etsem!
Quote:
It still from imperial times... Remained, when in Russia we on you named yourselves and addressed to yourselves in the third party... To you it, батенька, надочь Гоголей to esteem.. With With почитаньецем!


That's just pathetic hehe. So as you can see, I'm just a mess! I was like "Hey I'm gonna figure you out Russian!" and Russian was like "Hell no you're not! Comon St. Cyril, let's screw this newbie up!" Then Russian punched me in the eye and I died !

FadingAway: 0 Russian: 1
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Old 03-04-2003, 01:00   #4
narayana narayana is offline
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O, darling!

Dear one I had no idea you cannot read those lines. So it is in English -
There was the time before the revolution, before 1900s when most of Russian intelligence were speaking in third person about themselves, like: He Mr, We Mr. So and so... instead of - I am Mr.,
and many examples in literature especially by N. Gogol - Russian writer and some others were using this form to express an imbecility of the upper class in Russian society.

http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/resour...ls10/index.htm - "dead souls"

Try this:

Гоголь переоделся Пушкиным, пришел к Пушкину и позвонил. Пушкин открыл ему и кричит: "Смотри, Арина Родионовна, я пришел!".


С почитаньецем! - With a deep respect........

Last edited by narayana; 03-04-2003 at 01:28.
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Old 03-04-2003, 03:58   #5
Jan Jan is offline
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I am not sure what narayana means in this case, but there you go:

You are generally right.

Я сошла с ума
Literally: I stepped out of mind.
сойти с ума is an idiom meaning: to lose mind
сошла -past tense, female gender for the verb сойти,сходить -to go , to step out

Мне нужна она
Literally: (To) me (is) need (in) her- "I need her"
in fact, very common way to say it in russian, opposing to the more literate version of "Я нуждаюсь в ней",which would be closer to the English version (lit.- "I (have a) need in her"

нужна in this case- present tense, female gender for the verb нуждаться -(to be) in need.

Меня полностью нет -that one is more tricky!
No common expression like that, it is totally made up in "poetic" sort of way.
полностью is , in fact, "completely".
меня - ACC/GEN 1st person singular personal pronoun, I , you are absolutely right. It is used in Russian when you talk about yourself quite as often if not more often as "I"-"Я".
нет -in this case shows complete absense, "non-existence" of the subject.
меня нет- I do not exist, I am not here.
полностью нет-rare and unusual way to put it, meaning- "gone completely,in full, 100%".

без тебя меня нет- exact same thing, simply- "without you I do not exist"- you can see how it works above, right?

Я куда-то лечу - you are right!

Абсолютно in Russian is pretty much the same as in English- "Absolutely" "completely".

Last one- right again.

What is all that have to do with "the old times" mentioned above- is beyond me!

Any more questions?

Last edited by Jan; 03-04-2003 at 04:04.
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Old 03-04-2003, 23:23   #6
mir mir is offline
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finaly a deep view

finaly a deeper explanation of how the russian gammar works
it does realy help me to understand why the words in russian (after i have translated them in a way) seem to be in an eradic sequence

please do give some more lines?.......

btw fading,
ever considered taking courses russian?
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Old 04-04-2003, 06:23   #7
Jan Jan is offline
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Like which ones? Example, please.
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Old 04-04-2003, 16:16   #8
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
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I wish I could see russian letters on my computer..lol ^^
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Old 04-04-2003, 18:20   #9
Jan Jan is offline
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queenbee, -try "view>encoding>cyrillic (windows)"
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Old 04-04-2003, 18:26   #10
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
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wow thanks! Can I be anymore stupid?
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Old 04-04-2003, 22:10   #11
FadingAway FadingAway is offline
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The next batch!

More or less the line under the lyric in Russian is how you might see it written using the the latin alphabet, and then trying to stick with both voiced/unvoiced consonant and stressed/unstressed vowel alterations, the second is how one might pronounce it using the latin alphabet. The stress is on the part in bold. The literal translations are to the best of my ability, and are NOT to be taken as correct.

Говорят это бред
Govoryat eto bred / Gavaryat eta bret
говорят – 2nd conj. 3rd person plural imperf. present tense intransitive verb; they say
это – this is, that is
бред – delirium
Literally: “They say this is delirium”

Just wondering if the translation is correct.

А они говорят - виновата сама
A oni govoryat - vinovata sama / A ani gavaryat – vinavata sama
a – conjunction; and, but, or
они – Nom. 3rd person plural personal pronoun; they
говорят – 2nd conj. 3rd person plural imperf. present tense intransitive verb; they say
виновата – fem. short adjective; guilty, responsible
сама – Nom. 1st person singular fem. determinative pronoun; myself
Literally: ? “And they say – I'm guilty myself” or "I myself am guilty"
Translation: “And they say – it’s my fault” (this is what I've seen)

Not sure what to make of the literal translation here. At a loss for properly using the determinative pronoun (oneself) because I thought it was used to place emphasis on a pronoun or noun, which isn't here.

Без тебя я не я
Bez tebya ya ne ya / Byes tibya ya nye ya
без – prep. + Gen.; without
тебя – Gen. 2nd person singular personal pronoun; you
я – Nom. 1st person singular personal pronoun; I
не – not
Literally: “I’m not I without you” or "Without you I'm not I"
Translation: “Without you I’m not me”

The only confusion I have here is the use of я не я, being that я is the nomative personal pronoun, which works for the first я, but not the second. It would seem the second would have to be an objective pronoun (atleast in English) to translate me. So again, confused with the literal translation.

Это солнечный яд
Eto solnechny yad / Eta solnechny yad
это – this (is), that (is)
солнечный – Nom./Acc. masc. singular adjective modifying яд; sunny, solar
яд – Nom./Acc. masc. singular noun; poison, venom
Literally: “This (is) sunny poison”

Это is a very difficult word to translate correctly I think. I don't this line should be translated as "It's sunny poison" like most translations I've seen. As you can see, the usage of is slightly changes the meaning of this sentence. When it's not used, it sounds as if it were a fragment, suggesting the next line will complete the idea. If it is used, it stands as one complete idea.

Золотые лучи
Zolotye luchi / Zolatye luchi
Золотые (золотой) – Nom./Acc. plural adjective; golden
лучи – Nom./Acc. masc. plural noun; rays, beams
Literally: “Gold/Golden rays/beams”

Neither Золотые or лучи are in the genitive case, so it does not translate to "Rays/Beams of gold" like it's said to be in every translation I've seen (not that it's that big of a deal but I'm going for consistancy). I also wondered whether or not this line, in any way, was supposed to work with the preceeding line Это солнечный яд which I found to be something like "This (is) sunny poison". Both lines agree with the words they're comprised of in both the nomative and the accusative. So maybe the first line is in the nomative and the second in accusative. Still, the genitive would be needed to make it work in my head, something like "This sunny poison / of golden rays." Not sure, just a thought.

Last thing, in the line Абсолютно всерьез (as seen on every Cyrillic lyric site I can find, tends to be the same version), it's clear it's pronounced всерьёз (vser'yos), not всерьез (vser'yes). Even the dictionary recognizes it as всерьёз. Not sure what's up here.

Thank you Jan for your most informative reply, it was of great help! Unfortunately I'm now going to annoy you all the time LOL! I'm just kidding ... sorta.

Last edited by FadingAway; 05-04-2003 at 08:06.
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Old 05-04-2003, 20:22   #12
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OK, first one is correct.

Then:
А они говорят - виновата сама
verb виновата in Russian is made right out of a noun вина - guilt, fault.

Two ways to say that something is your fault:
Я виновата- I am guilty (female speaking)
Я сама виновата - I am guilty myself (again- female, in male case all "a" letters for the endings would be droped, Я сам виноват)
The word sequence in Russian can be changed easily- with little or no change of meaning, therefore here- виновата сама, dropping the Я as well as changing the sequence with practicly the same meaning- "it is my own fault, I am guilty myself".

English "me" in Russian does not have a direct match and in most cases translated as Я, just like "I".
In Russian we use Я in all the cases when you use "me", such as the case here.
Я не я- "I am not me (myself).

The thing is- should you say "This sunny poison" the meaning changes immediatly- it would , in fact, imply the presense of a certain poison which is a subject of this sentense, when it is really just a comparative- "This is LIKE a sunny poison", rather then "This is sunny poison INDEED".
In Russian this meaning would be achieved by the use of a different word, Этот(in a male subject case, for a female it would be Эта) instead of Это, the first one been more direct (THIS particular one), the second one( as in this case)- more of a general , hence no gender rule attached.
The translation therefore is CORRECT.


Золотой (singular, plural-Золотые)- nominative only when stands alone, when attached to a noun it becomes genitive-Лучи КАКИЕ?: золотые "Rays OF WHAT KIND?: golden".
There is a certain difference here (surprise...) between Russian and English- genitive does not have a separate form, but exists upon attachment. In other words, there are no genitive case in it's English form, not for a translation's sake anyway.

And -YES- this line is a direct following of the first one- second comparative, "This is sunny poison, (AS WELL AS) golden rays(rays of gold).

всерьез should be correctly spelled with dots on top, however I have difficulty typing this letter due to setup on my keyboard, that is why I drop it- as many other people do..

No problem bothering me- as long as I have time I am happy to help!
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Old 08-04-2003, 04:19   #13
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I don't expect much, but "thank you" would be nice.
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Old 08-04-2003, 04:22   #14
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Thank you

We REALY appreciate ALL that you do!

Last edited by bgirlnikki; 08-04-2003 at 04:43.
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Old 08-04-2003, 04:34   #15
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I'm SO sorry Jan! I went right back to working on the rest of the song and I completely forgot to come back here and thanking you! What a tremendous help you've been, you have no idea how much I appreciate not only the help on Я сошла с ума, but in learning the Russian language with a better understanding of why things are the way they are.

\ / Comon! Give me a big hug! Hehe, okay so maybe that's a little awkward but don't think your contribution warrants a mere "thank you." No no! Unfortunately all I have here is text and emoticons but I can assure you my gratitude extends much further then that. You're helping me achieve my goals, and there is no way to show enough appreciation to someone who goes out of their way to help someone else on their journey.
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Old 08-04-2003, 06:06   #16
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OK, that is actually more then I expected...
Well, the only reason I said it - you know, it is a little disappointing after you spend time working on something and then you don't even know for sure whether anybody cared to read it.

Now I know.
You are welcome!
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Old 14-04-2003, 06:36   #17
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Since this thread seem to be helping so many people-
should we continue?
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Old 14-04-2003, 07:06   #18
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Most definately I still have a few questions actually and I hope to have the entire thing somehow formatted and on display (with your permission) in it's entirety. I have started Нас Не Догонят as well, which will soon be in dreadful need of your knowledge! I will post my last questions and such tomorrow afternoon.
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Old 14-04-2003, 10:30   #19
narayana narayana is offline
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FadingAway - homework

FadingAway - great - we should do your homework for you?
You are so basted!!!! ( )
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Old 14-04-2003, 17:10   #20
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FadingAway, go ahead!
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