Discussions on Islam and religion in general

[Lux]

thank you guys.

an example: the US isn't the only ones who are fucked up.

the US isn't the only ones who are fucked up. this is ridiculous. in the US people brand arabs, muslims, iraqs and other middle easterners to be terrorists but at least we don't tease their religion. publicly. in the form of a cartoon.
this is a small and probably moot point but the US isn't THAT bad. again, there is alot of tolerance and acceptance here. there is also ignorance and hatred but that is true of every country. this US is no exception but it is not all bad.

[QueenBee]

How can you even compare a cartoon to real life? I mean, in some cases people who look middle eastern aren't even allowed on planes because of fear of terrorism, even though they are completely innocent. What you just showed is a CARTOON. It's like saying it's unfair that comedians make jokes about celebrities, because celebrities are people too. All in all, many comedians (and cartoon drawers) make fun of anyone and anything.

But US isn't the only messed up country, of course not... I think the whole world could be labeled as fcuked up.

[Argos]

We Europeans love to point with our clean finger on others, at the same time brushing our own excrements under our meanwhile rather smelly carpet. Western Europe is a refuge of egoism, jealousness, chauvinism, spitefulness......

So we cannot see, that behind - better say - above all the "over the top", arrogance, disdain etc. there is a lot of generosity and helpfulness from the US - people and governmental organizations in all parts of the world, and we Europeans have profited from this quality more than anybody else. USA have bad habits and good one's but I doubt that we in Europe would prosper, like we do now, without the protection and friendship of our most reliable partner beyond the Atlantic.

[haku]

Originally Posted by Lux

the US isn't the only ones who are fucked up. this is ridiculous. in the US people brand arabs, muslims, iraqs and other middle easterners to be terrorists but at least we don't tease their religion. publicly. in the form of a cartoon.

Are we to understand that you support censorship and religious extremism?

Comedians, cartoonists, etc have the absolute right to caricature whoever and whatever they want, that's called freedom of speech and feedom of the press. They can freely caricature politicians, movie stars, singers, and yes, even religious personalities, i've seen caricatures of the pope or the Christian church in general countless times and that's perfectly ok, we are no longer in the Middle Ages when insulting the Church was a capital crime.

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press in Europe will not be limited by religious extremists.

[Argos]

amber,are we to understand that you support censorship of people who critisize media?

I think everybody has the right to say that in the case of the Danish cartoons the media have done something, that people should never do, be it freedom of speech or not, and this mainly for two reasons.

1. It's no fun to hirt peoples religious feelings. It did not hurt religious extremists alone. This shows only bad education and a complete lack of good manners

2. It comes near to hate campaign. Mohammed is a terrorist, so all muslims are terrorists. That speaks for itself.

BTW, if somebody shoots that idiot, I will say only 1:1 - draw!

[haku]

Originally Posted by Argos

amber,are we to understand that you support censorship of people who critisize media?

No, because i did not threaten to kill Lux and her family because she posted an opinion i disagree with, see the difference?

Originally Posted by Argos

if somebody shoots that idiot, I will say only 1:1 - draw!

Nice, with that logic we'll soon be back to executing journalists and comedians who criticize politicians.

[Lux]

this is getting off topic. america is not over the top. other countries are the same way. but in their own ways. i have no idea what we're arguing anymore.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by Lux

this is getting off topic.

Offtop:
I'll chance the thread title then if it's too off-topic for your liking Just say the word

[zelda05]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

It's like saying it's unfair that comedians make jokes about celebrities, because celebrities are people too.

There is a difference between making fun of celebrities and a religion. In this case, Islam is a religion that is practiced by one billion people. And it is well known fact that they strongly condems the depications of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Of course, it is offensive to depict the Prophet as a terrorist. Clearly, the journalist or cartoonist lacks knowledge if he hold these views.

*already aware of freedom of speech and press*

[Lux]

title: Developed Countries and Their Drawbacks: A Comparison

[Rachel]

Offtop:
Ermmmm...whaaaaaat?!

[PowerPuff Grrl]

Oh come on!
It's freaking cartoons! Even if they were tasteless, I'm pretty sure that 1) They were made to inspire debate and 2) They, or some other publication, have made equally tasteless depictions of all four other religions.

That's more than what anyone can say about how Christianity and Judaism are depicted in the Middle East (whores and pigs, fyi), let alone Buddhism and Hinduism (not real religions at all!). Where are the Imams declaring fatwas and boycotts on that, eh?
I would honestly take the Muslims seriously if they weren't so freaking hypocritical.

Why the hell are we supposed to tip-toe around Muslims and Islam? Is any form of debate even allowed to exist in that religion?
We don't do that to any other religion. We scrutinize the shit out of them and eventually offend everybody, especially Christianity. Islam isn't special, not anymore special than any other religion. This has only exposed just how insecure Muslims really are.

Screw that shit, I totally applaud all of the European papers for reprinting those cartoons.

Maybe we should rename the thread to "Contemporary Islam is over the top."

[haku]

I totally agree on that one PowerPuff Grrl.

[freddie]

On that note... it seems funny how most Arab countries would have absolutely no problem seeing a swastika painted over the star of David in a local newspaper. God knows no other country should have religious feelings or should dare get offended over someone mocking their religion. This is simply the mindset extremist Muslims have: other religions don't matter since Islam is the one TRUE religion. 3 words: ignorance, intolerance, hypocrisy.

[haku]

Originally Posted by freddie

On that note... it seems funny how most Arab countries would have absolutely no problem seeing a swastika painted over the star of David in a local newspaper. God knows no other country should have religious feelings or should dare get offended over someone mocking their religion. This is simply the mindset extremist Muslims have: other religions don't matter since Islam is the one TRUE religion. 3 words: ignorance, intolerance, hypocrisy.

Again, i totally agree.

All other religions are being mocked daily in Arab newspapers and media in general, and that's fine, that's freedom of expression, but they can certainly not complain that others are doing the same. The practice of other religions is actually most of the time banned or at least extremely oppressed in most Arab countries, so they have no lesson to give to anyone in terms of 'respect' of religions, because the first 'respect' to give to a religion is to actually allow people to practice freely the religion they want.

I would also mention what happened to the giant Buddhas in Afghanistan, just because those statues belonged to another faith, Muslims did not hesitate to simply blow them up and they destroyed a priceless historical monument! They bitch about a cartoon but they think they can blow up historical monuments of another faith? What would we hear if someone destroyed an historical Muslim monument, they would cry bloody murder.

That being said, religions don't deserve any special status either and should be open to criticism and caricature just like everyone and everything else.

[Lux]

people can riot and ignore whatever they want. they also, can, say anything they want. and they will.

[zelda05]

Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl

This has only exposed just how insecure Muslims really are

Offtop:
OR how greatly they value their religion.

Originally Posted by Amber

All other religions are being mocked daily in Arab newspapers and media in general, and that's fine, that's freedom of expression

Offtop:
How interesting. It is unimaginable for Arab media or any media (owned by the muslims) for that matter to mock or depict a negative image of Jesus, Adam, David, Joseph, Isaac and other prophets (P.B.U.T) because they also consider them as Prophets. Muslims MUST have high regards for the Bible and Torah.

Originally Posted by Amber

I would also mention what happened to the giant Buddhas in Afghanistan, just because those statues belonged to another faith, Muslims did not hesitate to simply blow them up and they destroyed a priceless historical monument!

Offtop:
You are mentioning the very people who considered themselves "good muslims" yet they went against everything that Islam stands for.

Originally Posted by Amber

What would we hear if someone destroyed an historical Muslim monument, they would cry bloody murder.

Offtop:
"The Babri Mosque was a mosque constructed by order of the first Mugal emperor of India, Babur, in Ayodhya in the 16th century. It was destroyed in a riot by hostile Hindu extremists on December 6, 1992."

[xmad]

Originally Posted by freddie

Islam is the one TRUE religion. 3 words: ignorance, intolerance, hypocrisy.

Yeah,that's right.a few years ago I read a book which was about Islam rules.It made me really mad because the rules were against women.In Islam 2women=1man.
I'm muslim, but I personally dont believe in any religion.if I had a chance to choose it I would choose nothing.

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by xmad

I'm muslim, but I personally dont believe in any religion.

How can you be a muslim if you don't believe in it?

[zelda05]

My thought exactly.