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26-04-2006, 22:39 | #1 | |
OG
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Opinions on the expression of chauvinism, racism, homophobia, etc.
haku: This forum sets limits to the expression of certain opinions like chauvinism, racism, homophobia, etc. This thread is an outlet to express opinions about those limits and where the line is drawn between what's acceptable and what's not.
For information, a similar discussion happened three years ago, except that this time many people were asking for stricter limitations to the expression of homophobia and racism. QueenBee: Continuation of this thread that got very off-topic after the closing of this thread. Quote:
[nonconfrontational tone] to you it is. to me its blatantly "discriminating" and personally insulting. would it be too much to ask if the thread be closed? [/off] Rachel: Satire of religion, politics etc is not the same thing as direct insults based on race/gender/orientation. |
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"im fly as hell. swagga right. brown skin poppin like, dynamite" Last edited by haku; 29-04-2006 at 23:02. |
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26-04-2006, 23:38 | #2 |
kis$ it
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first and foremost, what hate thread? i simply ridiculed male genitalia and sexual performance. nothing wrong with that. it's a personal opinion at the very least. secondly, i post no hate. this thread is obviously different. this is an analogy the symbolizes something that people think but do not say. sure, the undertones can be offensive, but it can't be SO offensive that people get upset over it. after all, its message is subtle, not overt, and this is its very nature. because the undertones of the message are cast through humor albeit not of the light variety, this is simply a comical and suggestive critique on religion. so, it is not the same thing as what i posted. i came right out and said, "cock is disgusting" and people get heated and upset. now, had i presented my message in a humorous "it's not only the size of the sausage, but what it's attached to that is disgusting" fashion, people would scoff at best and roll their eyes, rather than close the thread, call the thread uber feminist (despite not know that that really means) and that i hate men. if anything, it is one giant example of how and why i am not at all attracted to men, intimately or physically. that is not hate. it is what i am. ok, getting off topic here..in conclusion, these two threads are not the same because one is dripping in satire and the other is blunt. which means, if you speak your mind, the thread will be closed. and if you present your message with satirical overtones, people will get a kick out of it.
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The Complete™ forever I never thought it would be this clear | Lux [ light-ness@hotmail.com ] |
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26-04-2006, 23:53 | #3 | |
OG
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which is why i would like to have this thread closed. people closed your thread [to which i took no offense] for unjust reasons. forre didnt like the opinions being expressed, which i respect, but why isnt she allowed to make her own opinion? but if thats how its got to be then fine. which is why i would like this thread to be closed. i find it DIRECTLY and personally insulting, satirical undertone or not. and every comment commending this thread is just another stab. do i have to have a million rep points to have my opinion and feelings count? or is it the little stars??
to be honest, i dont give a damn about this thread. like everyone else i can choose not to read it. my point is, if your going to keep this thread open then keep lux's open. if your going to keep lux's thread closed then this thread should be closed on the same grounds. Quote:
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"im fly as hell. swagga right. brown skin poppin like, dynamite" Last edited by madeldoe; 27-04-2006 at 00:03. |
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27-04-2006, 00:08 | #4 | |
Участник
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pogledaj da li me mozes presnimiti |
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27-04-2006, 06:07 | #5 |
Primetime Anchor
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Ok, here it goes. Who is offended here directly because a person was born like that (like in Lux's thread), please RAISE YOUR HAND!
This is a satire. Try to see the difference, ok? P.S. I will not open Lux's thread, no matter what. The reason is simple - we need to draw a line somewhere, ok? |
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Olga | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ ritzer@hotmail.com ] Latest News: | Tatu gallery | Current News | News Archive |
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27-04-2006, 06:31 | #6 |
OG
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so before it can be considered "descrimination" whatever is being descriminated against has to be innate? what?
i see the difference, but just because it has a damn punch line im NOT allowed to be offended?! i understand you have to draw a line..and i consider this to be over that line which is why id like this thread to be closed. |
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"im fly as hell. swagga right. brown skin poppin like, dynamite" |
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27-04-2006, 06:50 | #7 | |
Primetime Anchor
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Olga | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ ritzer@hotmail.com ] Latest News: | Tatu gallery | Current News | News Archive Last edited by forre; 27-04-2006 at 07:03. |
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27-04-2006, 12:00 | #8 |
Sad Little Monkey
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1.) I think the text in question was relatively neutral, not exposing any religion out there. Yeah, Rachel did compare it to christianity (which would granted be an obvious reference in this case), but no religion is mentioned in the text at all. It's more a satirical jab at dogmas in general, which could apply to almost all popular monotheistic religions (judaism and islam not excluded) out there and numerous politheistic ones. It doesn't discrimminate against anyone. It just shows a point of reference of an atheist.
2.) I'll go on the record here and say I wasn't really offended by Lux's thread, but rather annoyed because of it's sheer stupidity and somewhat obvious aim to provoke. We had another member doing the same shit even more blatantly so I'm sure you all get the gist of it. That wasn't a subtle satire of males, that was just bland i-think-men-suck-and-imma-show-you-why-by-raising-some-ridiculous-points-i-made-up-this-afternoon exercise. I'm not even saying a good satire about men and their deficiencies couldn't be made. It most definitely could. And it could be clever and witty. But that was just bad taste. How can one argue such dubious shit without feeling redundant for doing so? Think about it... try comming up with an argument against these two things a) God Exists. It is true because the Bible tells us so. and b) Semen is gross. Know what I mean? Offtop: I won't comment on the thread being closed, though. |
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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27-04-2006, 13:27 | #9 |
Green Eyed Demon
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Religion or belief in general is something you as a person choose to believe in. Christians believe that everyone who aren't christians are wrong and will burn in eternal damnation. Heh, okay, maybe not directly, but you know what I mean Even so, that's okay ... non-believers don't take it personally. But when someone makes an example to question your belief in general - not an attack on you as person - you shouldn't take it personally either.
Now, race and sex are things you DON'T choose. It's something you always have to live with - if you like it or not. Most people like it. Hehe, some very rare examples change "their outside". To question these things as better or worse than anything else would be VERY wrong, and therefor a very different topic. Now, I believe in the equal rights for every single person on this earth, and respect for religion, sex, race and sexuality. But there's a huge difference between innocent satire and direct insults. Hey, people joke about sexuality and races all the time. You don't think about it, but it excists. It just isn't bad, and most important thing of all; people don't take it personally! I think people should be more openminded about humorous things and try not to care too much, but again raise a big voice against discrimination - like direct, stupid and meaningless insults just because of frustration, anger and hatred. Now, let me add that I'm one of those who actually thought that some of Lux's points was funny But I understand the desition that was made. A similar desition based on the same reasons on this thread would not be correct tho... |
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What I Think Tank I have started a blog that aims to concentrate its content on politics, economics and history, with a keen interest in American politics and the American tradition of Libertarianism and Austrian Economics. |
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27-04-2006, 18:29 | #10 |
The Dream is Over, :~(
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I can see why madeldoe would find this offensive. It's basically equating the love of God to kissing some guy's ass and that believers don't follow the word of God for altruistic purposes but rather for their own selfish interests, among other things.
If this were something aimed to a particular group of people within Christianity [cough]AmericanChristianFundamentalists[/cough] then I don't think anybody would have a problem with it. However this is applied to every Christian, fundamentalist or not, which includes a moderate like madeldoe. And does it really matter if she chose Christianity or not? I mean, technically we kind of chose the country we're living in; even if we were born into it, we could always change. But if a thread opened up saying, oh I don't know, "Canada is the worst Goddamn country on face of Earth" or some shit (don't get any ideas!) I'd be offended. Deep down we are all just a tad bit nationalistic and to insult something somebody identifies with would be to insult the people him/herself. PS: You know I love you right Lux? I was kind of taken aback at what was said in your thread. I however, was waaaay too freaking offended by people who equated that to being feminist. In any case, because there are a number of males here Lux's thread got locked. If most of us considered Christianity as much as madeldoe then yeah this thread too would be locked up. I am well aware that it was a woman who locked up the thread, but I still think the statement holds true... to a degree. |
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27-04-2006, 19:15 | #11 | |
pie crust
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Quote:
Sorry if no-one understood what I said, my writing has lately been pretty bad. Also, I don't think anyone or very few were actually OFFENDED by what Lux wrote, but I think it was written in a dumb way. It wasn't witty, clever or funny at all, just.... stupid. |
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Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ] Last edited by QueenBee; 27-04-2006 at 19:27. |
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27-04-2006, 19:24 | #12 | ||
Sad Little Monkey
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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27-04-2006, 19:34 | #13 | |
The Dream is Over, :~(
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The title of this thread indicates it is about Christianity and Rachel concluded with remarks (that is if it was her remark's at all) at the end to not believe in the Bible because it doesn't make sense. This is about Christianity. But for the sake of argument, let's just say it isn't. This thread would then be an attack on faith alone which implicates every religion and would therefore be moreso insulting.
I don't think it really matters whether the joke is comparing one religion with others. It's basically calling a particular one as bullshit and that's still offensive to some people. I never said Lux's post wasn't offensive. ETA: Quote:
This is pretty darn explicit, less so than Lux, but still nonetheless. Whether or not it is funny is a matter of taste but I think the message is pretty clear. I know that there are more females than there are male, but the fact that there are a significant amount of men browsing these forums does affect how the site is managed. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that madeldoe is the only open Christian is the entire English Forum, if the ratio of Christians to Athiests were that of Female to Male than it is pretty reasonable to assume that Lux's thread would still be open. Though for the past couple of years this site has been administered exceptionally well, I do find that this site has a history of leaving hateful posts unchecked because nobody of the group targeted were there to speak up. |
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Last edited by PowerPuff Grrl; 27-04-2006 at 19:49. |
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27-04-2006, 19:43 | #14 |
Ice_Cream
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PowerPuff Grrl, so if the thread name was changed and the comment at the end was removed would it be different or not?
And btw, no I never wrote any of that, it was just a copy & paste. |
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Tatutaty: "Horny Rachel is her name. Masturbating is her game. Fucking, sucking, licking too. Wouldn't you like some Rachel screw? *batteries not included*" PuddleQueen | Rachel | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ rm6405@hotmail.com ] My music playlist on Last.fm |
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27-04-2006, 19:49 | #15 | ||
Sad Little Monkey
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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27-04-2006, 19:58 | #16 | |||
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Last edited by PowerPuff Grrl; 27-04-2006 at 20:11. |
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27-04-2006, 20:16 | #17 | ||
Sad Little Monkey
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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27-04-2006, 20:25 | #18 | |
The Dream is Over, :~(
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I keed, I keed. I'm just trying to get people to see where madeldoe is coming from. In any case, that's the same reasoning Lux used. So I guess the closure of satirical threads can be determined by how funny and how well comprehensive they are rather than how offensive they may be to some. I'm no lawyer but uh, that's setting up bad precedence there. |
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27-04-2006, 20:34 | #19 | |
pie crust
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Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ] |
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27-04-2006, 21:25 | #20 | |
The Dream is Over, :~(
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Some racist things were uttered in the past but were never really dealt with because there were not enough Black people to speak up, though admittedly the site was really young and there were about two moderators. Still however, this behaviour has continued with some anti-Semitic posts uttered here and there and considering that ypsidan04 is the only overt Jew and only posts once in a while, anti-Semiticism was tolerated. Same with anti-Islamic statements and since rosh and xmad are the only Muslims here, with xmad not really giving a shit, that only makes one person and rosh's presence is ever disappearing. And now with Christianity and madeldoe. Now contrast that with homophobic and anti-male remarks stated and you'll see that there is a direct correlation between how posts perceived as hateful are dealt with and the demographic of posters. Not to say that any of you guys are anti-whatever, just that you'll speak up if something affects you particularly and most of you have the benefit of being backed-up by other people equally offended. Not that I'm saying it should be locked, but that we shouldn't be deciding what thread needs to be closed based on how many people are offended, or at least turned off, by it. If half of us, or even a quarter of us were as Christian as madeldoe would this thread would be closed too? I tend to think so. |
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