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Tatu in Podnebesnaya. Releases from 21.02.04 and 22.02.04. [aka Eps. 11 & 12]

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Old 28-02-2004, 06:39   #241
RowerB RowerB is offline
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Originally posted by sunny poison
Why for some only pure blind love or bitter hating exists?
For me it’s blind love.
I just feel so privileged they live on the same planet as me.
Old 28-02-2004, 07:02   #242
transcend transcend is offline
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I certainly agree with sunny poison's comments about shadows. For me nothing is black and white, everything is just shades of grey - a continuum. Whatever the nature of the two girls' relationship is, it really must be quite complex and may well have gone through different phases.

I also agree entirely with simon regarding the fact that Ivan failed to understand that you can't joke about paedophilia in the UK.

AND (!) I agree with katbeidar that tatu's style of music is not popular at the moment. R n B dominates in the West. Tatu were probably a little bit ahead of their time here.

So there you go...I agree, I agree, I agree. And I almost forgot to mention that I agree with sunny's comments about degrees not being a mark of intelligence, and there being more important things in life. And sleep is one of them...and seeing as I haven't slept in over 24 hours, I'm going to bed!
Old 28-02-2004, 09:33   #243
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If you go trough ALL the vids there are of the girls together (from various different occasions) it's so obvious that the girls truly have/had a very complex relationship, that was quite a bit more then just a business arangement. Otherwise they wouldn't last together for 3 years. Everything imploded cause if Ivan, nott cause of them. As far as they're concearn they could keep this going for another 5-7 years for all we know.

I'd disagree with Euro-music not being popular in America... the new-wave in the 80s brought like a whole FLOOD of eurpean bands that shaped the decade and Billboard charts in that time... Duran Duran, A-ha, Human League, Wham!... it's just that the girls came in at the wrong place at the wrong time, when Rap/R&B rule the sceenes (unfortunately). But that goes for america only... I mean European charts are more diverse and more leaned to retro 80s pop then the American ones. So there's no "musical" limits for them here. But it's obvious that you won't be sucesful if you have NO new material and you cancel concerts. :/
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Old 28-02-2004, 10:54   #244
simon simon is offline
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Originally posted by katbeidar
I think that Tatu didn't make it in the West because their music is just not popular there. They are a Euro-dance group. That's is so not in right now.
Maybe we were using 'West' in different senses. I was using 'West' to include mainland western Europe.

I've puzzled about why NGGU was not more successful in the West. NND was the first Tatu song I ever heard and it really impressed me. It's not quite as good as YSSU/ATTSS, but it was still surprising to me that NGGU flopped in the West, particularly when you compare it with what it was up against.

I wondered if the failure was because of a backlash against Tatu after the success of ATTSS.

Originally posted by sunny poison
It's obvious that Ivan was surprised by reaction TATU got from the West. It was very different from one in Russia. Here nobody got TATU so serious. They were just a pop band, provocative and with this sense of freedome... hard to explain... but nobody was thinking about political correctness here. This thing just doesn't exists in Russia. Anyway, such things as 'paedophilia and child pornography' just didn't pop up in russian minds. TATU were about love, desperation, being missunderstood. Ppl were looking at their facial expressions with emotions and not under their skirts. So, Ivan just didn't realize that ppl on the west took it all really serious. His comments were half-jokes half-provocations. He tried to tell 'hey! this project is about love and fear, life and death and u are talking about paedophilia. What's wrong with you, guys?' But he wasn't smart enough to understand these his comments will be taken not any less serious than the whole thing with TATU.
Yes, I think it was all a misunderstanding between cultures. People here mostly seemed to see Tatu entirely in terms of sex and missed the other aspects. I suppose we're just not as soulful as Russians.

I don't really know why people didn't get the joke of the ATTSS video. Brits (if not Americans) generally have a pretty good sense of humour. However, the country has a hysteria about child abuse that has gradually broadened into a kind of paranoia about teenage sexuality. Maybe they could see the joke, they just thought it was in bad taste and not funny. I'm not sure.

Originally posted by sunny poison
Anyway, I don't think he regrets his own words. He founded TATU to SAY something to ppl. Not for money. So, the audience that refused to understand wasn't a big loose for him. [I don't say girls agree with him on this. Their aims were a bit different, I guess]. He wanted to do something more than just project. It wasn't understood. As well as his words that he doesn't want to record 2nd album. He wanted to record something more than just album, weren't understood also. Everyone is blaming him for delay [Y&L included if the whole Podnebesnaya thing is true], while 'something more than just album' takes a bit more time to do than just usual album.
Isn't it the case that Russia has now turned away from the kind of message that Tatu had? Russia is becoming increasingly authoritarian. Look at the recent parliamentary elections and the farce of the current presidential election. Look at the political fuss about Yulia's statements about drugs on Anatomy. I heard that a representative of Putin's supporters also condemned her on tv. Do you think that has had anything to do with what appears to have happened in the last few weeks?

Last edited by simon; 28-02-2004 at 11:18.
Old 28-02-2004, 12:51   #245
xena225 xena225 is offline
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Originally posted by sunny poison
The only reason I said I was glad the show was about to end is that I don't feel very comfortable seeing ppl basing their negative opinions on my mostly positive posts. I feel some kind of guiltiness that I may be didn't express myself well enough and my words were the only source u could base ur opinion on.
This isn't your fault at all. Many people come to a discussion with a certain attitude, and if a statement is even slightly ambiguous they will interpret it in a way that fits their own opinion. Especially in a debate that is as polarized as the debate here (unfortunately). But you always managed to clear things up nicely if you thought there had been a misunderstanding. So don't worry.

Originally posted by sunny poison
nobody was thinking about political correctness here. This thing just doesn't exists in Russia. Anyway, such things as 'paedophilia and child pornography' just didn't pop up in russian minds. TATU were about love, desperation, being missunderstood. Ppl were looking at their facial expressions with emotions and not under their skirts.
That last sentence sums it up so perfectly. I still think there are a lot of people in the West who think tATu was just about cheap titillation - they never took the time to really understand what the group is about. The discussions and comments were and are still so unbelievably shallow and superficial, that it's hard to find a common ground for discussion at all. I agree that maybe Ivan took things too lightly and that his provocations were ill-advised - the mentality question seems to be of extreme importance here. But I also blame the self-righteous arrogant Western media - sniffing at this great project from Russia, this breath of fresh air, their comments often fuelled by xenophobia and homophobia and just plain cynicism - I blame them for not even trying to look beneath the surface, for not even trying to find a different approach.

Originally posted by sunny poison
I don't know what's wrong here. Why ppl are so stuck to opposites. Why for some only pure blind love or bitter hating exists? You know... even in black&white movies there are shadows.
I don't mind strong opinions. As long as people still listen to each other and don't take things to a personal level. New thoughts and ideas seldom spring from the safe middle ground - it takes extremes, it also takes compromise, but most of all people should respect each other and listen to each other.

I respect and appreciate Lena and Yulia a lot. They've entertained me brilliantly for more than a year now (on and off stage), in a real rollercoaster ride. Never a dull moment. They are not beyond criticism, nobody is. But to me the positive things definitely outweigh the negative sides. What's really remarkable is that these talented, charismatic young women have left their mark on a lot of people, even on those who show a lot of disdain towards them. Friend or foe, they manage to touch everybody. And that is quite an achievement. The project tAtu, despite its flaws (which are part of their incomparable charm, and possibly a calculated step as well), still has so much to offer.

I really hope it won't end with tonight's episode.

Old 28-02-2004, 13:13   #246
haku haku is offline
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I'm amazed by what i've started here.

All i did was mention that Singapore was a former British colony and that English was spoken there.

It was not meant as an insult to Yulia, it was not meant to imply that she's stupid, and i was not trying to look superior. (and yes, i'm aware that knowing such a detail is nothing compared to the money and fame she has).

I never thought that saying such a simple thing would trigger a debate on intelligence, simply because it never occured to me that people would take that as a display of intelligence.

I just said something i knew, period, i had no further motive than that. But i'll sure think twice next time i'm about to say something that Yulia or Lena don't seem to know.
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Old 28-02-2004, 16:21   #247
RowerB RowerB is offline
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Originally posted by haku
And thanks for clearing that language thing. Well, Singapore is a former British colony, and as far as i know, English is an official language there, so i don't really see what Yulia meant by "those MTV guys translate it directly to their language".
Though this may have been a bit unfair on Yulia, haku, I did not find it offensive. It was not like you were trying to totally ridicule her.
Old 28-02-2004, 19:02   #248
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It's funny how everyone analyzes every miniscule detail. Anyway, I agree w/xena225 - I blame the media, here. They never even considered looking beneath the surface - all they saw was what they wanted to see. They never considered the music, the emotions, the talent.

BTW, on a side note: I don't think the picture thing is so weird - I mean, I gave my friend a picture of me for his birthday once. On the picture, it said: "The world is not what it seems... you need to look beneath the surface, behind the facade, the illusion, to see things as they are. Don't look at the image - look past it. See what is behind the picture." That was a little riddle - behind my picture, i had a picture of him, mountain climbing - he had this fear of heights and he conquered it and I was proud of him for that. Anyway, he didn't understand the riddle right away and two months later, I got a call from him saying that he found the real picture.

So, I think the gift meant something.
Old 28-02-2004, 19:58   #249
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