The dominance of English

[haku]

Originally Posted by marina

you are so clever , sometimes you frighten me !

Haha *blushes*

Originally Posted by marina

Where else can you see the words with 5 , 6 , 8 letters in it and half of them is silent ?

Hehe, in French! The number of silent letters in English is *nothing* compared to the number of silent letters in French, we are the specialists of silent letters.

I'll give you a typical example which is often given to non-natives trying to learn French to show them what they can expect and how confusing it can be for them:
"Les poules du couvent couvent." which means "The hens of the convent are brooding."
Now the same sentence with the silent letters in brackets: "Le(s) poul(es) du couven(t) couv(ent)."

As you can see, the main difficulty is that the last two words are spelled exactly the same *but* pronounced differently, the first "couvent" means "convent" (and obviously the English word comes from Norman-French) and is pronounced "couven", the second "couvent" means "brood" and it is a form of the verb "couver" (to brood) which happens to take the "ent" ending at the 3rd plural person of the indicative present tense, becoming identical in spelling to the first "couvent" but not in pronunciation since the verbal "ent" ending is always silent.

You see, a typical French verb has about 40 to 50 verbal endings, but most of them are either silent or partially silent, and many are identical in pronunciation but different in spelling.

An example of that, here's the conjugation of the verb "parler" (1st verbal group, regular) at the present tense (numbers represent personal pronouns in their usual order):
1. parle - 2. parles - 3. parle - 4. parlons - 5. parlez - 6. parlent
Now with silent letters in brackets:
1. parl(e) - 2. parl(es) - 3. parl(e) - 4. parlon(s) - 5. parle(z) - 6. parl(ent)

As you can see, 4 out of 6 endings are totally silent (and therefore the verb is pronounced exactly the same), the 2 other endings have a final silent letter. You'll find the same kind of thing in all tenses and all verbal groups.

And don't think it's limited to verbs, many adjectives for example end with a silent letter (at their masculine form), and what makes it even more complex is that 'unsilencing' that letter is how the feminine form is made, that's right!

For example: "fort" (masculine) and "forte" (feminine) [meaning "strong"] are pronounced "for" and "fort" respectively…
Or "long" (masculine) and "longue" (feminine) [meaning "long", duh] are pronounced "lon" and "long" respectively…

'Unsilencing' the last consonant is what makes the second form feminine, and of course there's no way for a non-native to ever guess what letter they should add to a masculine form to get the feminine one since those letters follow no other logic than Latin ethymology.

I'll finish by adding that just like in English, you simply add an 's' to nouns (and adjectives and past participles in French) to create the plural form of a word, but guess what… The plural 's' is always silent in French.

[nath]

Offtop:
Pat...and don't forget the "h"....English often asked me why we, French, are so stupid to have built a language where we write a "h" which we don't pronounce at all..."homme"=man-->om

[Argos]

Originally Posted by haku

Hehe, in French! The number of silent letters in English is *nothing* compared to the number of silent letters in French, we are the specialists of silent letters.

And now I know why french manuals have always the double weight of english ones. French people like to write so much, that they continue writing after the word has actually ended. Strange language, too!

[Obie]

Originally Posted by vanik

I think that perhaps everybody speaks english just because is the easiest language to learn not because of the american power... dont worry...

Yeah, that's true, they have less problems with verbs,,,, vosotros tenéis, yo lo hubiere de haberlo visto,,,, (existe eso), anyway,,,, I've also had problems in English.... and I'm saying the truth , if I was a North American or an English I would have studied more languages like Spanish, why not.

About Lazy English speakers,,, there's a survey saying Americans (I mean those from EEUU)are too lasy to read subtitles in foreing movies..... maybe there are too many movies in this language that it almost doesn't make sense not to make them in English or translate them,,,,,

Originally Posted by vanik

omg... so you can understand spanish QueenBee? Que calladito lo tenías bonita jajaja

OMG too,,,, so Queenbee cómo así????????, manifiéstate !!!!, je je (English translation of JE JE is HA HA,,,, ,, no problem?????)

[QueenBee]

No comprendo.

[vanik]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

No comprendo.

You dont understand...

You said little QueenBee that you know spanish, dont you? Obezyanki and me want to know.... Queremos saber si hablas español...

[QueenBee]

vanik, hablo, pero un poco

My goal is to know it well at the end of this year. At least as well as I can.

[vanik]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

vanik, hablo, pero un poco

My goal is to know it well at the end of this year. At least as well as I can.

that´s ok... if you need help with spanish dont hesitate and ask us... ok?

[QueenBee]

Sure! Thanks alot.

[vanik]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

Sure! Thanks alot.

you´re welcome little Queenbee

[Obie]

that's my word too Queenbee,,,,,

[freddie]

Originally Posted by haku

Haha *blushes*

Hehe, in French! The number of silent letters in English is *nothing* compared to the number of silent letters in French, we are the specialists of silent letters.

I'll give you a typical example which is often given to non-natives trying to learn French to show them what they can expect and how confusing it can be for them:
"Les poules du couvent couvent." which means "The hens of the convent are brooding."
Now the same sentence with the silent letters in brackets: "Le(s) poul(es) du couven(t) couv(ent)."

As you can see, the main difficulty is that the last two words are spelled exactly the same *but* pronounced differently, the first "couvent" means "convent" (and obviously the English word comes from Norman-French) and is pronounced "couven", the second "couvent" means "brood" and it is a form of the verb "couver" (to brood) which happens to take the "ent" ending at the 3rd plural person of the indicative present tense, becoming identical in spelling to the first "couvent" but not in pronunciation since the verbal "ent" ending is always silent.

You see, a typical French verb has about 40 to 50 verbal endings, but most of them are either silent or partially silent, and many are identical in pronunciation but different in spelling.

An example of that, here's the conjugation of the verb "parler" (1st verbal group, regular) at the present tense (numbers represent personal pronouns in their usual order):
1. parle - 2. parles - 3. parle - 4. parlons - 5. parlez - 6. parlent
Now with silent letters in brackets:
1. parl(e) - 2. parl(es) - 3. parl(e) - 4. parlon(s) - 5. parle(z) - 6. parl(ent)

As you can see, 4 out of 6 endings are totally silent (and therefore the verb is pronounced exactly the same), the 2 other endings have a final silent letter. You'll find the same kind of thing in all tenses and all verbal groups.

And don't think it's limited to verbs, many adjectives for example end with a silent letter (at their masculine form), and what makes it even more complex is that 'unsilencing' that letter is how the feminine form is made, that's right!

For example: "fort" (masculine) and "forte" (feminine) [meaning "strong"] are pronounced "for" and "fort" respectively…
Or "long" (masculine) and "longue" (feminine) [meaning "long", duh] are pronounced "lon" and "long" respectively…

'Unsilencing' the last consonant is what makes the second form feminine, and of course there's no way for a non-native to ever guess what letter they should add to a masculine form to get the feminine one since those letters follow no other logic than Latin ethymology.

I'll finish by adding that just like in English, you simply add an 's' to nouns (and adjectives and past participles in French) to create the plural form of a word, but guess what… The plural 's' is always silent in French.

Jesus.

I think I'll rather try spanish or portugese.

[haku]

Originally Posted by freddie

Jesus.

I think I'll rather try spanish or portugese.

Sorry freddie, i didn't mean to scare you. French is a difficult language (unless your native tongue is another Romance language of course, in that case it's obviously much easier), you have to be reasonably motivated to learn it.
That being said, i don't think French is harder than any given Slavic language, the difficulties are not in the same grammatical areas, but the overall amount of difficulties are about the same, i think. So a motivated Slavic person should not be overwhelmed by the difficulties of a language like French.


On a side note, if anyone who doesn't know any Romance language wants to learn one just out of curiosity, i would recommend to start with Italian, it's by far the closest one to Latin and it has kept most of the integrity of the original language (while still losing the awful declension system of Latin).

[Obie]

For French and Italian, Portuguese and Spanish speakers it is easier to learn these languages( the ones I mentioned),,, because of their common writing and sound,,,

[Argos]

Originally Posted by haku

... i would recommend to start with Italian, it's by far the closest one to Latin and it has kept most of the integrity of the original language .

I thought it's the sardinian language. When I was there more than 20 years ago I could understand them quite well with my latin knowledge, but I understand only very few of italian. It sounds completely like latin with only little changes with consonants and almost complete maintenance of the original vocals.

[Obie]

Did you know that italians and argentins have the same accent,, well kind of! ,,, sounds great!, you recognize them from the very first time,,, if they're not pretending their voice though!

[Argos]

Originally Posted by Obezyanki

Did you know that italians and argentins have the same accent,, well kind of!

From the many italian names of argentinian people I am not surprised, should rub off on their tongue.

Offtop:
Is it true what I have heard that argentinians say that they speak 'castellano' (purest spanish) and call the spanish people 'gallegos' for their 'peasant-like' spanish?

[haku]

Originally Posted by Argos

I thought it's the sardinian language.

Yeah, i meant among the 5 main Romance languages, Italian is the closest to Latin. But yeah, Sardinian is definitely the most conservative Romance language and is certainly an interesting study for someone into linguistics.

[Obie]

Originally Posted by Argos

From the many italian names of argentinian people I am not surprised, should rub off on their tongue.

Offtop:
Is it true what I have heard that argentinians say that they speak 'castellano' (purest spanish) and call the spanish people 'gallegos' for their 'peasant-like' spanish?

I don't think so,,,, I guess, they speak Spanish as if they were singing ( and I must confess it sounds really sexy),,, If you mean their Spanish is the way it was spoken originally,, I don't know,,, latin americans have different accents,,,, mexicans, cubans, peruvians, argentins, colombians, ecuadorians have different accents and we difference that..... it must happen in other languages,, doesn't it?,,,,, some people prefer Mexicans translations (about movies), than Spanish people,,,, 'cause they're not used to it,,, and because it sounds a little funny, their "Z".

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by haku

On a side note, if anyone who doesn't know any Romance language wants to learn one just out of curiosity, i would recommend to start with Italian, it's by far the closest one to Latin and it has kept most of the integrity of the original language (while still losing the awful declension system of Latin).

closer than Romanian?