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Tatu in Podnebesnaya. Releases from 14.02.04 and 15.02.04. [aka Eps. 9 & 10]


 
 
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Old 18-02-2004, 14:26   #121
simon simon is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by haku
Gay fans may not be more important than straight fans, and both gay fans and straight fans were hurt by the events of those last months, but gay fans were hurt to a much deeper level.

Some gay fans *did* come out because of Tatu, they were looking up to them as role models, they thought Yulia and Lena had been through what they were going through, showing them that it was possible to live your gay love openly like straight people do (and it can mean something as simple as holding hands in the street despite the fear that it may trigger a violent reaction from people around you). Those fans took a huge blow when they realized that their role models were fake, that they had never experienced themselves what they were talking about (Lena talking about the problems they had with their parents because of their relationship... what a mean joke!).

Now i know that some of you think that those fans have only themselves to blame, they shouldn't have believed such an "obvious" joke, they only saw what they wanted to see and for you Yulia and Lena were in fact always "honest" in their ambiguity.
Think what you want, it remains that those fans are *still* deeply hurt and sometimes even more confused than they were before they knew Tatu. Those fans were often alone, struggling with their sexuality with no one to talk to about it, Tatu was for them a window that showed them that there was some hope, now they feel that they are back in the dark.
I think this is a real moral problem. That was why many people thought Tatu were dodgy. They felt that pretending to be gay when they weren't was unprincipled and dangerous.

I always felt uneasy about Tatu for that reason. I could see that when the truth came out in the end, people would be hurt. However, I thought that would happen AFTER Tatu finished. I didn't expect them to dramatically unmask themselves like they did in Anatomy. I therefore thought any damage would be quite limited.

I also felt they had a get-out. They kept saying that their sexual orientation didn't matter, they were so deliberately ambiguous and kept hinting they weren't, they talked about having boyfriends and that they might go back to men. The message seemed to be that sex and sexual orientation weren't such a big deal.

What Lena said on Anatomy was what was so particularly damaging.

1. Maybe, just maybe, she wasn't referring to the promotion of a homosexuality as being sinful. But it was a very obvious implication given the context that she was seeing a Russian Orthodox priest - Russian Orthodoxy thinks homosexual activity is a particularly serious sin. To think that's not the impression that most people will have got is to close your mind to unwelcome thoughts. It's obvious that's how people would take it and they must have known that when they released the film.

2. Talking about sin at all meant that she didn't believe in Tatu's message. Even if what she thought was sinful was say the sexual explicitness, rather than the homosexual content (but she unaccountably forgot to say so), it was a renunciation of the pro-sexual freedom, anti-guilt message. It meant she wasn't sincere about Tatu's message.

It's one thing for Tatu not to be gay if they believe the message. It's another thing for Tatu not to be gay if Lena at least doesn't believe the message.
 
Old 18-02-2004, 20:20   #122
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As Melissa Etheridge didn't have any problems with tATu, even though she obviously didn't believe in Y/L being gay, I'd suggest some user here should give her a call and teach her about lesbian issues.
 
Old 18-02-2004, 20:45   #123
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Good for her but so? The fact that Melissa Etheridge didn't have a problem with Tatu is not of any help to the young fans who are upset. She's not the one talking to them, but i'll pass your suggestion to give her a call, i'm sure that'll be a great comfort to them.
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Old 18-02-2004, 20:54   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
As Melissa Etheridge didn't have any problems with tATu, even though she obviously didn't believe in Y/L being gay, I'd suggest some user here should give her a call and teach her about lesbian issues.


Ahem.

Lena and Yulia were and still are great champions of loving who you want to love, not giving a damn what people might think, and laughing in the faces of all the narrow-minded people of this world (no matter what their own preferences are). Despite constant attempts to undermine their credibility, to me they still are all of this, and nothing they have said, nothing at all, leads me to believe that this has changed in any way.

xena225

EDIT to say:
Sorry for being off-topic.

Last edited by xena225; 18-02-2004 at 21:19.
 
Old 18-02-2004, 20:58   #125
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I agree with xena225. For one I always thought that for tatu really living their message they would have to be bisexual, because they wanted to show that *all* kinds of love where good as long as it was love.

Honestly I understand people being hurt. But there are also some people who are not hurt. And continuing to hurt each other won't help anyone.
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Old 18-02-2004, 21:21   #126
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Quote:
Lena and Yulia were and still are great champions of loving who you want to love, not giving a damn what people might think, and laughing in the faces of all the narrow-minded people of this world
Yes. Lena, for example, seems to be very open-minded.

She's against the legalization of marijuana and she thinks that what they do on stage are sins.
 
Old 18-02-2004, 21:29   #127
haku haku is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by xena225
I'll be sure to pass those kind words too, very comforting.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lena410
they would have to be bisexual
Would have indeed, but they never said they were. They both admit freely that they have boyfriends now, but we've never had any indication that any of them ever had a girlfriend.
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Old 18-02-2004, 21:40   #128
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Quote:
we've never had any indication that any of them ever had a girlfriend.
what? but they were always in love with each other! can't you see?

Yulia: Lena is like the sun - she always makes everything around her warmer.
She's the person whom it's natural to have by my side.

And they're gonna get married and have kids too. I know this thing Yulia has for Pasha is just a phase - she's confused, poor girl. It was that awful press that led her to turn straight for a while, of course she was always Lena's girlfriend!

Everything they do stems from their love. For example, Yulia masturbating.

 
Old 18-02-2004, 23:01   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by xena225
Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
As Melissa Etheridge didn't have any problems with tATu, even though she obviously didn't believe in Y/L being gay, I'd suggest some user here should give her a call and teach her about lesbian issues.
lol:
I think this is an example of the famously subtle Teutonic sense of humour that for some reason isn't widely appreciated outside Germany and Austria.

Conversely, I believe that for instance Russian joking isn't well understood in Germany and Austria.

Last edited by simon; 18-02-2004 at 23:08.
 
Old 19-02-2004, 02:38   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by simon
I think this is an example of the famously subtle Teutonic sense of humour that for some reason isn't widely appreciated outside Germany and Austria.

Conversely, I believe that for instance Russian joking isn't well understood in Germany and Austria. [/b]
Well, and I think this is an example for what I would call lack of humour.

By the way who tells you that I am "teutonic"?!
Living in Germany doesn't mean being "teutonic".

Glad I know now that you're one of "those" for whom nationality means certain qualities and such... gotta look out and fulfill all your expectations from now on...

Last edited by Rob; 19-02-2004 at 02:49.
 
Old 19-02-2004, 03:02   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob
Well, and I think this is an example for what I would call lack of humour.
Rob, I was making a joke. I'm sorry that you didn't understand my English sense of humour.

P.S. "Teutonic" is the English adjective to refer to something relating to both Germany and Austria.

Last edited by simon; 19-02-2004 at 03:08.
 
Old 19-02-2004, 03:08   #132
Rob Rob is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by simon
Rob, I was making a joke. I'm sorry that you didn't understand my English sense of humour.
simon, What a coincidence, everybody joking in here but that's way better than coming up with national stereotypics anyway.

P.S. Just in case your additional remark is directed at me - "teutonic" (teutonisch) isn't exactly a word being used here these days when speaking about supposed "characteristics" of Germany/Germans - doesn't fit and kinda "old-fashioned" to put it mildly. whatever...

Last edited by Rob; 19-02-2004 at 04:48.
 
Old 19-02-2004, 03:17   #133
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OK guys, no more 'jokes'
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Old 19-02-2004, 06:24   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by staringelf
Yes. Lena, for example, seems to be very open-minded.

She's against the legalization of marijuana and she thinks that what they do on stage are sins.
YES!! I love it when she smokes in the picture, in the video, and she admitted that she smokes, and when people tell she should quit, she said she tried but its not easy .. but other people should stop smoking .. ..she so cute ...

my type of girl ...

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Old 19-02-2004, 07:05   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by haku
Would have indeed, but they never said they were. They both admit freely that they have boyfriends now, but we've never had any indication that any of them ever had a girlfriend.
they never did? hm...did I just imagine that article *ponders* honestly I forgot but I was sure that they, Lena at least, said at least twice that they weren't lesbians but bisexual. hm..maybe wishful thinking
well up to pasha we never really had a real indication that they had boyfriends either. Plus I think they wanted to make up for that with their "we love each other" speeches. *shrugs*

staringelf no matter what you say that Lena said I do think that she *is* open-minded. If she weren't than she would have reacted differently to that man who came to their autograph sighning dressed as a woman.
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Old 19-02-2004, 08:41   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lena410
Lena at least, said at least twice that they weren't lesbians but bisexual. hm..maybe wishful thinking
I don't think she ever used the word bisexual, i don't even remember her ever saying the word girlfriend (except maybe on stage but well, they are on stage, so it doesn't matter since they are performing their act).
But believe me, nothing would make me happier than a bisexual Lena! I'm not closed to the idea, far from it! But i'll need to see/hear something that looks/sounds genuine.
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Old 19-02-2004, 09:16   #137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lena410
they never did? hm...did I just imagine that article *ponders* honestly I forgot but I was sure that they, Lena at least, said at least twice that they weren't lesbians but bisexual. hm..maybe wishful thinking
Not exactly wishful thinking, Lena410.

I wonder why some people are so incredibly opposed to them being bisexual. *goes to ponder the possible reasons for this*

xena225
 
Old 19-02-2004, 16:23   #138
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haku, I never heard her say the world gf on stage either *lol* but I didnt understand anything at the concert so that coul be the reason *grins*
well I know that there was an interview with them..I think a polish one..and I think that lena said bisexual in there...plus I think they said it while in slovakia

xena225, depends on how you look at it
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Old 19-02-2004, 22:01   #139
rANdoMtATuFaN rANdoMtATuFaN is offline
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Lena410 - I think I remember that. It was a while ago...I'll have to go find it.

BTW, I think Lena is extremely open-minded. She wouldn't do what she does if she wasn't.
 
Old 20-02-2004, 05:32   #140
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not this debate again.

although i used to think yulia was highly sexual and thus likely to be bi/open, i always thought lena to be into girls. now, yulia is straight. she's not into girls, not at all. it's not that the more i think about her having a boyfriend the straighter she gets, it's just that, everything is clear: she's not into girls, at least, not into other girls. what thick blanket of delusion ivan has pulled over my eyes only to rip it away at the most crucial moment.

it's weird, when i go back to watching video clips/interviews, i STILL resort to thinking they're attracted to each other/to girls in general. they must've been SUCH good acters.




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