Learning Russian with SP

[zebu]

zebu that is 'cursive'. Well, since I am preparing to open the 'Learn Bulgarian' thread - I quickly wrote the Bulgarian Cyrillic alphabet - it is exactly the same as the Russian one + the Russian one has 3 additional letters - so it will work in a way.....

thanx for the alphabet

btw did you see the football match tonight Bulgaria-Croatia? we won 1:0

[rachelc]

How did Russia get on against Georgia - they were losing 1-0 the last I heard. England qualified. Yeeessss!

[spyretto]

phiew, Russian seem even harder than Greek. And I'm still working on the stresses

btw did you see the football match tonight Bulgaria-Croatia? we won 1:0

I saw, but I also saw Greece - N.Ireland...and that was even better

Russia won 3-1

[vesica]

I'm in a bit of a rush right now, but the exercise looks like great fun....
I think it's easier to do it in anglicized script, but here it is in cyrillic, with lots of questions. here's what I have:
Кажицца акажицца брощи н'э знаком'ицца (transliterate with stress on ne?)
Кто иc нас aткажицца вз'aт' и успaкоицца (remove ь, no?)
Д'эвaчк'и каг д'эвaчк'и, а пaтом лунат'ик'и
Нaмира и сдр'элaчк'и, шaкaлатк'и, фант'ик'и


in transliteration, would consonant+и become consonant+ ' +ы? (not the case in the "L'ud'i" example, I've followed this)

if an unvoiced, paired consonant precedes a voiced but pairless consonant, what happens? I've assumed that it turns voiced in my answer, but that would mean that плохи should transliterate to блох'и

what happens if there is a string of 3 or more consonants take завтра for instance. Since т is unvoiced it turns в unvoiced, but р does not turn т voiced in turn-- may I assume that the first conversion (of voiced to unvoiced) overrides the later conversions?

I've typed these in a bit of a muddle but hopefully it's not nonsense

EDIT: changed брощи.
another question about Cyrillic transliteration: (I am not normally such an annoying student)
if we first change a consonant for stress, as I have just done, do we continue with the soft consonant before и in transliteration?

[rachelc]

Originally posted by spyretto


Russia won 3-1

Sorry to hijack this thread with my football queries, but it is Russian-related after all.
So does Russia's win mean they've qualified directly for Euro 2004 or have they got to go through the play-offs?

[russkayatatu]

Originally posted by spyretto
phiew, Russian seem even harder than Greek. And I'm still working on the stresses

Absolutely. But on the other hand, I can do Greek grammar in my sleep now

[elf]

Originally posted by vesica
Кажицца акажицца брощэ н'э знаком'ицца (transliterate with stress on ne?)
Кто иc нас aткажицца вз'aт' и успaкоицца (remove ь, no?)
Д'эвaчк'и каг д'эвaчк'и, а пaтом лунат'ик'и
Нaмира и сдр'элaчк'и, шaкaлатк'и, фант'ик'и

That was interesting to read. Most of it is corret! Let me just highlight the parts that I think were wrong.

Edit: removed following vesica's advice

I also removed some of the eccessive ' signs and some 'ц's.

(transliterate with stress on ne?)

ne has only one vovel so it's stressed.

(remove ь, no?)

I don't think so

in transliteration, would consonant+и become consonant+ ' +ы? (not the case in the "L'ud'i" example, I've followed this)

I don't think it would... never heard of any such case.

if an unvoiced, paired consonant precedes a voiced but pairless consonant, what happens? I've assumed that it turns voiced in my answer, but that would mean that плохи should transliterate to блох'и

I'm not that good at phonetical rules but in your example, плохи would sound just as it's written and блохи is a completely different word which means 'fleas'

what happens if there is a string of 3 or more consonants take завтра for instance. Since т is unvoiced it turns в unvoiced, but р does not turn т voiced in turn-- may I assume that the first conversion (of voiced to unvoiced) overrides the later conversions?

The word завтра would sound somewhat close to зафтра. So no, т doesn't change.

One little commet from elf. If you are not sure how to pronounce a certain word or sound - try to pronounce it the way it's written. with o->a convention. In most cases Russian words sound exactly as they are spelled and all the consonant changing just simplifies the pronounciation. If, for example, you try to pronounce завтра very quickly, it would automatically change to зафтра.

Great job vesica

[vesica]

elf, Thanks a lot for your corrections!

I guess that p (russian '"r") and other voiced and unpaired consonants do not make the previous consonant voiced.
It's a good thing you told me about плохи!

I think sunny poison said that it might be better not to post corrections until the other students have written their transliterations as well. I've saved your advice on my computer, so maybe, if you want to, you could delete the post?

PS Russia is in the playoffs.

[prostrel]

Привет! I have not given up yet! I just have some difficulties with my internet connection, it totally went off for 3,5 days (I have paid my bills it`s not that ).
So much have hapend after my previous visit here. This new homework was actually quite difficult for me, I haven`t done practices like this before.

Well, here is my first attempt to do my homework:

Кажеца акажеца прощи н`и знакомиц`а
Кто ис нас аткажеца вз`ят и успакоиц`а
Д`иевачки как д`иевачки, а патом лунатики
Намира и стрелачки, шакалатки, фантики

I have always pronounced кажется with 'e', should I pronounce it with 'и' ? I don`t want to pronounce it with 'и'

SP thanks for the table of 'Combinations of the Consonants'. I already knew some of those combinations but not all of them.

Ах, здорово! I can also learn some Bulgarian here! Interesting, thank you Coolasfcuk !

Edit: I have a question from the song ' Клоуны' : How do Lena pronounce the word ' огоньки' ? I have tried to figure it out but I just don`t get it. The way I hear it is not even the same word which is written, I can`t even give a description of how I hear it. Strange.

[coolasfcuk]

vesica, prostrel, sasha, great job !!! Ehhhh haaaa.... I havent been posting in here, 'cause I am listening to sunnich and waiting for others to post first you guys can still record yourselves if you like....that would be great - we can read the transcript and listen to how you pronaunce it ..

elf already commented once..... I think he does a great job on that - since of course he is way more competent with those stresses in Russian maybe once more people have posted he could comment again - of course now we have russkaya and she is just perfect too.... I will try my best - but I am higher middle level, I think he heeeeee

so, soon I will post mine.... elf if you were thinking of posting, wait till I post mine, pleeeeeeeeeease otherwise I will peak at the answer

Miss D, where is your homework... dont give up....it's only been couple of lessons

[coolasfcuk]

Also....russkaya sent me her files,so I uploaded them

Russkaya Homework #1
Russkaya Sing

and I made a little comment on her files

Cool's Comment Russ
Cool's Comment BG

the second one I did for those who said they would like to enroll in the BG class It is a warm up, and once again to show ya that it is not extremely different - just easier than russian. I know I havent done that yet, but soon I will, really - too much going on right now

russkaya, no wonder you come from music family and with that singing, I cant believe you havent joined us in the Idea thread

[prostrel]

Exercise 1 (the simpliest one):
I thought about giving some phrases to read

мы продолжаем простые движенья
мы продолжаем для продолженья
не задавай эти вопросы
просто давай двигайся просто

Hey fellow students / active members! I listened again your homework 1 and this funny picture came into my mind:
In this picture we are all sitting on the floor in a circle and we are wearing white frocks. Our heads are down, our eyes are closed and we are holding hands. We all mumble together the phrases above, those phrases are like our daily confession of faith, or mantras. So I guess we are like some kind of religious sect in this picture. Sect of простые движенья

Sorry, correction: Of course we don`t mumble, we pronounce those phrases loud and clear!

[coolasfcuk]

Aletrt - booooooooooooo the files I uploaded last night - of me and russkaya - they dont Work right now - stupid free host site !! will have to re-upload again tonight, cause I dont have the files with me right now

[denial]

Originally posted by coolasfcuk
Miss D, where is your homework... dont give up....it's only been couple of lessons [/b]

Just finished doing my homework Cools dear .. and that was the Cursive Cyricllic handwriting. (I follow your writing) I think its very romantic writing, so going to write them on xmas cards soon, So I better hurry . LOL LOL .. ohh..I only have 1 cigarette left .. and I am so desperate for one now.. but can I wake up in the morning without cigarette? ..woo .. ..maybe I just smoke half.. ...*ummm...yes...floating*...

[zebu]

I just passed Criminal law exam at my uni, that I have been learning for quite a while so I can finally focus on my Russian.

I didn't do my homework yet, but it will be up soon, when I finish celebrating my exam

I just wanted to say that a good friend of mine bought me a wonderful book for learning Russian in Croatian. It quite old and that makes it even more interesting. I must post you a pic of it. so here you go Ruski za poиetnike

[denial]

zebu, oh you have a nice note book I'm so jealooos .. I think it looks romantic. ..how? I dont know.

[coolasfcuk]

ok, I have fixed the files - I really hope so - so here they are:

Russkaya Homework 1
Russkaya Sing
Comment Russ
Comment BG

I have also included a little scribbling I did today....it is of 'my comments' files - what I say in the Russian and BG one - cursive and typed.....please, let me know if you cant read it at all - I do understand handwritting is harder than the computer font... I will be willing to type it in
Page 1 - Cursive
Page 2 - Typed

I usually cant write only with typed or only with cursive - I always mix in - like if I am writting typed, I will always mix in some cursive 'a's or something like that. so I am sorry, if that confused you

I am sure I have couple of mistakes in the Russian one - I did it without checking dictionary...so I was guessing on couple of spellings I know for sure there arent any spelling mistakes in BG

[denial]

cools, I wanted to show you my cursive writing .. but .. but .. its embarrasing .. it looks like kindergarden kid writing .. I am not really sure where to start or end the stroke .. and worst is my the more I practice now my б started to look like a sperm.

Thanks for more writing samples .. I wuv you!

[la aurora]

*knock-knock* *cough* mmmeee.... may I come in? I know, I'm pretty late... but I missed ya guyz... much more then U can imagine
Huh... I fixed the problem even sooner then I hoped I will. Just coz it was impossible to know U are here and not being able to join U... *offers cigs to all smokers around* I can't promise I won't disappear again but at least this week I'm def here *runs to hug everyone*

I see u can easily leave without me as I found some fcuking great assistents and they do their job so well that I can just stand and watch But hope u don't mind me joining the thread again...

so we have some questions here... I won't post the right variant of ex2 as there are still some students who will try their luck a bit later. But I'm gonna answer some questions and point U some things to give ur special attention to.

[la aurora]

vesica, the bravest one as she was the first to post her transcription Unpaired consonants DON'T change the previous consonant. Sry, I didn't mention this before going. But U kinda figured out urself with a little help of assistents. So, follow this rule attentively and correct ur transcription where needed But very good still. U learned the lessons damn well.

There's one thing about 'не' and 'ни'. It also has something to do with the word 'из'. Remember I told you about logic stress in the sentence? That means when U read each word separately, it's exactly how most of all wrote it. But the speach is not just a number of separate words. It consists of sentences. And when U read the whole sentence fast enough, words often flow together. That's why short service words often sound as they don't have stress at all. And that's why the word 'из' ('from', 'of') shouldn't be read just like a separate word and next word 'нас' influents it. Try to guess in wich way I'll tell U a bit later if no one will guess.

'и' never becomes 'ы'. why should it? this pair is different from other 4. These are 2 different sounds. But I placed them 2gether as 1. there were no other vocals left 2. the sound a bit similar 3. one makes consonant soft and second doesn't.

And yes, even if U change 'е' to 'и', the previous consonant is still soft (both these letters make it soft, remember? even if u change 'e' to just 'э' the consonant stays soft as 'e' was written)