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Feminism... Is it dead?


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Old 30-04-2006, 02:55   #1
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
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Feminism... Is it dead?

Feminism. Wildly understood as basically being equality between the two sexes. Equal pay for equal work, right to vote, right to exist as legal persons, right to opportunities traditionally reserved to men, breaking down of social norms seen as stifling to a women's progress, etc...

Sounds good right?
Every ambitious, self-respecting, and confident woman would have said that they were feminists thirty years ago. Now not so much. In fact there is a noticeable tendency in women to pull away from calling themselves feminists despite the fact most likely, they value the same ideology.

So what happened?
Basically feminism branched out to incorporate many other ideologies that were rarely in feminist discourse compounded with a neglect of others. Naomi Wolff (legendary author of the feminist Bible "The Beauty Myth") and argues that since those new ideas were taken up by feminists many women have since left in disagreement and others have left in feeling left out.

These new ideologies include the sudden allegience to a favoured political party (i.e. Liberals over Coservatives), take Gloria Steinem's political position as an example; "Republican women are feminist imposters," obviously this would and has alienated a lot of feminists who are coservative. Acceptance of homosexuals; in that homosexuality is not a feminist issue but an issue of its own right; a woman can be a feminist and a homophobe at the same time (basically leave your views on homosexuality at the door). However modern day feminists have made it mandatory to accept lesbians in most feminist organizations, however admireable this has left out a lot of support for the cause.

As for the eventual neglect of certain feminists, well it seems that during the eighties when the seeds of feminism were starting to bloom upper class, caucasion women were mainly reaping the benefits, stopping short of including issues that involved mosty women of colour, working class women and women who chose to remain housewives.

But the ultimate divider has been over abortion. It has almost split the feminist movement in half, leaving one substantial contingent of supporters. Pro-life feminists argue that a fetus' life has nothing to do with feminism and pro-choice feminist say that as long as the fetus is in a woman's body, it is solely her decision as to whether or not she'll terminate the pregnancy.

Well most of this is the American trajectory of feminism a lot, save for some, can be applied to Canadian gender politics. The government has been pretty respondent to feminist issues but at times seems to be dragging its feet particularly when it comes to representation in the parliament, albiet that's a party issue, the NDPs are doing a good job in that regard.

Want do you think in general about feminism?
How has feminism been experience in your country?
Has there been any divisions and do you agree or disagree with them or any of these?
Do you call youself a feminist?
Do you think it is dead?


PS: A man can call himself a feminist... I wish more did.
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Old 30-04-2006, 03:08   #2
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this is a simple question with a complex answer.

feminism used to be quite the social and political movement but it is neither of those anymore. i mean, overarching issues of national security and equal rights for homosexuals have taken the spotlight, at least in the last few years. feminism no longer permeates social thinking because of many reasons. one being that since its emergence, it fell to the backburners because of the lack of political action taken for or against it. that is, there has been little done in politics and law regarding equal rights for men and women. well, that's not to say that nothing has happened; maybe policies were written and laws were debated and certain ones passed but nothing significant to maintain news for headlines. over time, it no longer seemed a pressing social concern, at least not in the eyes of the media. and when media focuses away from an issue, the mass public thinks the issue itself is no longer important. it is a consensual relationship in that both feed off each other but in a botched way. if there is little done on local and federal levels, the media starts to invest its attention elsewhere. but just because the media does not spew news relating to feminism does not mean it is not an important issue. an issue is an issue. feminism is always important until equality develops between men and women in all realms of society. another reason is that grassroots politics are poorly funded, disorganized, labor intensive, and time consuming. in the situation the country as been for the last decade or so, there have been bigger issues at hand, such as the immigration, the threat of terrorism and well, rising gas prices. that's right. the public is far more sensitive to what effects them directly than issues that may or may not concern them. in the case of feminism, the average american will care less for it than he does for rising gas prices because he thinks he is not personally accountable for inequality between men and women. meanwhile, rising gas prices will no doubt hurt his budget and bank account.
there are other issues but i'd like to see what others think before throwing it all out there.
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Last edited by Lux; 30-04-2006 at 03:22.
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Old 30-04-2006, 09:38   #3
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Feminism is a lot like religion in many ways. They both originated from a noble, worthwhile idea (religion: peace, moral standards... , feminism: gender equality) and both deviated into something that turned the original idea into obscurity. Feminism - at least from what I can observe of it here - developed into a kind of ultra-agressive version of the movement, where different authors try to find far fetched reasons why women are infact a higher development of a human being. Amusingly it's the same idea which men tried to impose on women since the begining of time! And it never worked. Because lets face it... and kind of theorizing about ow one particular kind of human is better than the other is bound to sound ridiculous - whether it'd be racistm, homophobia, elitism and yes, even ultra agressive feminism. It's just one twist on religion in my opinion.

As far as regular feminism is concerned.. as in.. people who strive for gender equality... yeah. I've always been a feminist in that respect. Not only that... I think there shouldn't be a neccesity for feimnist movements. It should all come naturally to us. Deep down inside I think it's fairly obvious we're all painfully similar despite all the difference that seperate us. It's just that some people fail to see the difference as something that'd tie us together even more but rather as an excuse to start mini quasi-intelectual revolutions.

A word on the abortion issue. Imo, a person can hardly be called a feminist if they don't support the right to an abortion. More than that... I don't think such a person can even be called a philanthropist.
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Last edited by freddie; 02-05-2006 at 09:41.
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Old 30-04-2006, 18:08   #4
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Maybe real Feminism is already losing atention,,,, female singers like X-tina Aguilera come with "songs" saying they agree with feminism,,,,,,,,, but they don't,,,,. They keep showing women like sexual merchandise,,,,,. I am not an expert in these matters,,, I guess feminism was born with the idea of equal treatment between women and men,,,,, not just attacking each other to see who is the smartest. Anyway I support people who think we're all beings trying to get our own spot in the world, just human beings!.
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Old 30-04-2006, 18:08   #5
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I'm feminist and I'm proud of this. I know many femists. My favourite feminism's activist in Poland is Kazimiera Szczuka. I love her!

Wikipedia:
Quote:
Feminism is a diverse, competing, and often opposing collection of social theories, political movements, and moral philosophies, largely motivated by or concerning the experiences of women. Most feminists are especially concerned with social, political, and economic inequality between men and women; some have argued that gendered and sexed identities, such as "man" and "woman," are socially constructed. Feminists differ over the sources of inequality, how to attain equality, and the extent to which gender and sexual identities should be questioned and critiqued. Thus, as with any ideology, political movement or philosophy, there is no single, universal form of feminism that represents all feminists.

Feminist political activists commonly campaign on issues such as reproductive rights (including but not limited to the right to choose a safe, legal abortion, access to contraception, and the availability of quality prenatal care), violence within a domestic partnership, maternity leave, equal pay, sexual harassment, street harassment, discrimination, and rape. Many feminists today argue that feminism is a grass-roots movement that seeks to cross boundaries based on social class, race, culture, and religion; is culturally specific and addresses issues relevant to the women of that society (for example female genital cutting in Africa or the glass ceiling in developed economies); and debate the extent to which certain issues, such as rape, incest, and mothering, are universal. Themes explored in feminism include patriarchy, stereotyping, objectification, sexual objectification, and oppression.
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Old 30-04-2006, 18:28   #6
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well, i think i live in one of the most 'feminist' places in the USA - Berkeley and I have to say that it is pretty alive here amongst men and women ...
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Old 30-04-2006, 19:09   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obezyanki
Maybe real Feminism is already losing atention,,,, female singers like X-tina Aguilera come with "songs" saying they agree with feminism,,,,,,,,, but they don't,,,,. They keep showing women like sexual merchandise...
I don't have the time at the moment to really dig into things but this is one thing I'd like to bring up. Why isn't it ok for women to be sexual? The second we are we're often branded as sexual merchandise or more commonly, sluts. Not that I totally disagree with you Obezyanki, but bringing up Christina Aguilera, I honestly think women like her, Pink and Madonna are feminists. Women who own up to their sexuality, aren't ashamed of it, and are in total control of it.

Contrast that to women like Beyonce, Britney, and Jessica Simpson who do the exact same thing but giggle aferwards and totally shy away from it swearing up and down that really, they are sweet and virginal. As if being female and sexual is something to be ashamed of and chastity is something to adhere to. That, IMHO, goes against feminism.

PS: Nice to see some self-proclaimed male feminists! Hooray!
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Old 02-05-2006, 07:21   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
Feminism is a lot like religion in many ways. They both originated from a noble, worthwhile idea (religion: peace, moral standards... , feminism: gender equality) and both deviated into something that turned the original idea into obscurity. Feminism - at least from what I can observe of it here - developed into a kind of ultra-agressive version of the movement, where different authors try to find far fetched reasons why women are infact a higher development of a human being. Amusingly it's the same idea which men tried to impose on women since the begining of time! And it never worked. Because lets face it... and kind of theorizing about ow one particular kind of human is better than the other is bound to sound ridiculous - whether it'd be racistm, homophobia, elitism and yes, even ultra agressive feminism. It's just one twist on religion in my opinion.


As far as regular feminism is concerned.. as in.. people who strive for gender equality... yeah. I've always been a feminist in that respect. Not only that... I think there shouldn't be a neccesity for feimnist movements. It should all come naturally to us. Deep down inside I think it's fairly obvious we're all painfully similar despite all the difference that seperate us. It's just that some people fail to see the difference as something that'd tie us together even more but rather as an excuse to start mini quasi-intelectual revolutions.

A word on the abortion issue. Imo, a person can hardly be called a feminist if they don't support the right to an abortion. More than that... I don't think such a person can even be called a philanthropist.
i completely disagree. but i understand your perspective.
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Last edited by freddie; 02-05-2006 at 09:41.
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:23   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
I don't have the time at the moment to really dig into things but this is one thing I'd like to bring up. Why isn't it ok for women to be sexual? The second we are we're often branded as sexual merchandise or more commonly, sluts. Not that I totally disagree with you Obezyanki, but bringing up Christina Aguilera, I honestly think women like her, Pink and Madonna are feminists. Women who own up to their sexuality, aren't ashamed of it, and are in total control of it.

Contrast that to women like Beyonce, Britney, and Jessica Simpson who do the exact same thing but giggle aferwards and totally shy away from it swearing up and down that really, they are sweet and virginal. As if being female and sexual is something to be ashamed of and chastity is something to adhere to. That, IMHO, goes against feminism.

PS: Nice to see some self-proclaimed male feminists! Hooray!
There are many feminists who believe a respectable woman should be very reserved in her sexuality, because they'd just be playing to male wishes if she was any more open with it. Ironically that kind of philosophy probably stems from old-fashioned conservative view-point that women are only sexually active to procreate and please their men. A woman who's aware of her sexuality and is willing to express it would be an obvious witch 500 years ago and an obvious whore these days.
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Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:51   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
I honestly think women like her, Pink and Madonna are feminists. Women who own up to their sexuality, aren't ashamed of it, and are in total control of it.
And you think it's a positive movement?
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Old 02-05-2006, 10:59   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
There are many feminists who believe a respectable woman should be very reserved in her sexuality, because they'd just be playing to male wishes if she was any more open with it. Ironically that kind of philosophy probably stems from old-fashioned conservative view-point that women are only sexually active to procreate and please their men. A woman who's aware of her sexuality and is willing to express it would be an obvious witch 500 years ago and an obvious whore these days.
i disagree.
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Old 02-05-2006, 13:03   #12
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I do agree that feminism is like religion, simply because feminism itself is different from what it has become. Many think of feminists as man-hating lesbian women in suits but feminism itself is simply equality between genders... and in that case, I do consider myself a feminist. But I prefer not to put myself into that group because of the reputation it has gotten and how misunderstood people are, plus some feminists actually do believe that women are better than men, although there's only a few of them. Some feminist here in Sweden (female) said that heterosexual girls are betraying their gender. That sort of makes me think that maybe the true meaning of feminism is dying out, but it's not dead yet. Many are feminists without actually calling themselves feminists...
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