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19-05-2004, 03:01 | #41 | |
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19-05-2004, 04:16 | #42 | |
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First of all sorry, im among the US hater dudes so if u want to treat this as a "Insight of a hate mind", well u may treat, so if i somehow offend you, sorry. But also think the other side too, Arabs also dont like to have them generalized and called evil and mean people, the scum of the unverse, because of the action of small groups and the government that controls them. I will tell my opinion based on facts that i saw and lived. What happens is that the why of the generalization of the hate occurs because of your government, right, but ALSO because of your society. Not in a general, but most of the people and unfortunatelly thats what will count. The way they think towards other nations, the way they treat foreigners, this all increases the hate to your people. But that happens on all places right. But most of it are like 'isolated cases' something like 1 or 2 in 10 will think like that. But for me, what happened was the opposite. When i had the chance to go there and see how they are, so i could stop with some of my hates, it just increased even more! The way i was treated it is to be forgotten but even a cockcroach has a better treatment. So as for me, i hate the kind of people i found there for a personal reason. But also for political reasons. Youre mostly hated because of your actuation on foreign countries, some of that actuation that your country shouldt even interfere, and also your country disrespects all kind of international laws, laws that they even say to defend so proudly. But whats unfortunate is that the big majority of the people support this actions! For me I only want the complete eradication of those ridiculous superpatriots (arrogant and xenophobists ) and the politicians (well... politicians) of the US and israel . Taking out these bad guys, the world will live in peace. But the people that support these guys, will think the way these guys think and they will vote on guys like Bush, Sharon, etc.... and this ones will keep the brainwashing of the population and getting more and more support Although i dont guilt US people for ellecting Bush, i dont consider that he was ellected. But this is some of the ways that lead a person to hate a country . I distinguish the yanks i hate from the ones who are victims of their leaders, not because theyre born there. But unfortunately, theyre so much..... |
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19-05-2004, 05:15 | #43 | |||||||
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All these things said, the Middle East is a volatile and dangerous place right now as it has been for the past 6000 years in my opinion. I have said it before and I still believe that taking Saddam out was the best decision for Iraq and for the Middle East. Time will tell. I personally believe that Saddam at one time represented the greatest threat to any long term plan for peace in the Middle East. He was a tyrant and he had the third largest Army in the world. His ultimate goal was destruction of Israel and unity among all Arab nations [with Saddam as the leader]. He is gone and we have the difficult task of forming some kiind of government where the Iraqis can govern themselves. I hope that the Iraqis go the way of Japan, Korea or Germany and become a success story but I am very glad that Saddam is gone. The U.S. made these decisions and I believe that in time they will prove to be the best for stability in the Middle East. That's my opinion. |
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19-05-2004, 05:36 | #44 |
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Bitty, don't take all that too seriously. A person who has not the full picture will generalise. Terrorism has to be stopped before something bigger happens.
I don't like many things in America too but I try to see the full picture. Generations of potential terrorists are born everyday. This has got to stop. |
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19-05-2004, 07:12 | #45 | |
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The USA is a bit selective as far as terrorism is concerned.
Soon after Blair aligned himself with Bush, in the war of terrorism in 2001, the IRA miraculously announced, they were going to decommission their arms. To me, this was part of a deal Blair had with Bush. See:- http://members.aol.com/linguapress/ulster.htm I don’t think Bush is the problem. It’s the USA. Quote:
I stand by what I said, Transcend. On an individual level, the Americans I meet from the local air-bases, are much the same as anyone else. |
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19-05-2004, 07:21 | #46 |
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Spyretto - I know...it's just...I dunno, it hurts. It's like having a brother that has done bad things and because of that everyone hates him. I can understand people being upset, but I can't help but feel sad and helpless. Because like a brother, I love my country and it scares and hurts me to think so many people hate it. But it has done hurtful things, but damn it, so have all the other brothers, lol. I don't like people picking on my brother, And I really don't like how arrogant and holier than thou some people can sound, as if their country is perfect. I just don't think people realize how hurtful the things they say can be. They are angry and they want to hate, but all that hatred does is breed more hatred and violence. That scares me.
But I agree, terrorism in all its forms, whether under the mask of religion, nationality, or pride, needs to stop. Hatred needs to stop. And the first step isn't to hate the US. It isn't the root of all evil, that evil lies in man, no matter where he lives. About the generalizations...that is what is scary. People DO generalize and they often believe in those generalizations, and that leads to prejudice and a universal hatred of all that generalization entails. I am not saying anyone on here is like that, but that is was generalizations spawn. But, unforetunately, I know that generalizations cannot be avoided. Dent - I never said Arabs liked to be generalized. I do not hold the opinion that all Arabs are evil. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that most Americans do not have this view. That is the point. However miguided it may be, most of those in support of the war believe that there are evil people in power over there, oppressing those Arabs who are not. If we believed they were all evil, it wouldn't be an attempt to reorganize the government, but to exterminate. Perhaps that is what you believe my governement is doing, and perhaps they are, but that isn't what, in my opinion, most Americans view as the motive. Like I said, maybe we are being lied to. Maybe we are being fed false propaganda, telling us all how much good we are doing over there, helping the Arabs who are being oppressed by evil. I am sorry your visit here was not pleasant. But I have always heard different opinions. Maybe you just had bad luck? Maybe where you chose to go was a nest of a political leaning you did not agree with, say you are liberal and you visited a very conservative place, visa versa. Or, don't take this the wrong way, because I do not know you or how you act or your personality, but...could it maybe be because you are slightly abrupt or in your face? Maybe, for whatever reason, your personality specifically just didn't sit well with the majority of people you met here. Or I guess we are all assholes. *shrugs* transcend - Yes, I am still around. There isn't much to post about...but this really got my girlfriend worked up. She was so emotional and couldn't reply. So I read and it pained me to read what people were saying too. I had to reply. And believe me, I know not everyone hates US. It is just all I hear about on the news anymore, about how much people hate the US and how even everyone living here hates Bush and his policies. But who could know that 9/11 would happen and that he would charge off to war? Life sucks sometimes, but hatred doesn't solve anything, right? Khartoun2004 - I was also shocked and infuriated by the prisoners treatment. I think most people are. I respect and support our military, because they put themselves in danger for our sake...BUT, I don't think the military is the best place. It breeds mob mentality, aggression and removes the fear of punishment. Sick passions seem to come out of soldiers when they are all grouped together or in war sometimes. Hell, what irritates me is that, some people who are SUPPOSED to go to jail are instead kept out of jail by joining the military! Such is the case with my cousin. He's a ocmplete jackass who totally deserves to be in jail, but the judge gave him a deal and now he is in the Navy. I don't even want to think of the atrocities he may be doing there. Grrr. LenochkaO - Don't worry, as long as people say things objectively, with careful words, where they are just stating opinions on specific policies they dislike, that is fine. It is when people step so far as to wish an entire people to be banished from earth that I have a problem. |
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19-05-2004, 11:47 | #47 | |||||
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All superpowers are always feared, sometimes hated, it comes with the status. Because other countries are jealous (especially when they used to be superpowers themselves). Because other countries know that whatever they think or say, the superpowers will do what they want and there's nothing they can do about it. Because other countries realize that the superpowers have enough military power to wipe them out overnight.
I know that some Americans are upset that so many people don't like them but don't be, this very fact only shows that you country is indeed the most powerful country in the world. Be glad to live there and not elsewhere, what other people think about you has little value compared to the fact of being a citizen of the most powerful country in the world. And most importantly, what other people think of the US is ultimately useless since it will have no consequences on what the US will do and achieve... you have the power, they only have words. Quote:
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During the first Iraqi war, it only took 3 months to the USA to wipe out the Iraqi army (it's estimated that about 150,000 Iraqi soldiers died during the first Iraqi war, which is a reasonable number since 300,000 died during the Iraq/Iran war.), proof that this army was not so powerful. Western countries knew that very well, they are the ones that had armed and financed this army to contain the Shiite revolution coming from Iran. Quote:
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19-05-2004, 13:08 | #48 |
the truth is out there...
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everyone who critize the crimes comitted by the US do it because they hate all americans. It's like with Israel, everyone who defends the palestinians human rights are antisemites
I don't see why people are surprised about the torture of iraqui prisoners. We are talking about the country who "installed" dictators in a whole continent, and tought the military how to torture the prisoners (people who fought for democracy). People in latinamerica have known this for a long time, there are a lot of documentation about these CIA "training camps". This is only one example, and it came to my mind because a person close to me was tortured in one of these concentration camps and he even met one CIA agent who was supervising the whole thing. Someone told me a CIA agent told a newspaper that installing Saddam was his favourite coup he had participated in as an agent. I'm guessing the american people don't know anything about this, that's why they are surprised that people critize (or even hate) the US. I can imagine it must be odd to see yourself as "liberators" when your country represents the contrary to people all around the world and you don't even get why |
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19-05-2004, 15:51 | #49 |
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The solution can not be found by invading muslim countries - even governed by bloodthirsty and ruthless dictators - but indentifying these pots of terror and removing them. I expect that the Americans wanted to overthrow Saddam to open up their possibilities of crushing the terrorist network and the wmd were just a gimmick?
The ultimate solution will be found by sorting out the situation in the Middle East though. Unless this is tackled the horror will continue. And the Americans don't seem to be as motivated in finding a peaceful solution there. Respect for international law by the US is welcome too. Though you can not equate the US regime with those terrorists, that's quite rediculous. ( or even with some Islamic regimes, for that matter ) Less than half of the world's population comprises of Muslims, Americans and Jews. Well, I just hope they show some respect for the other half and try to put a stop to this madness. |
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19-05-2004, 16:59 | #50 | |
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Ho, ho, ho. Santa is in town. And he has a list of naughty girls. Proud "no club member" club member Life sucks so why don't you just drop your pants and enjoy it? Tatysite, love or leave it. And don't bother complaining, thread will be closed. |
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19-05-2004, 17:55 | #51 | |
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And just to put things in perspective, i have seen that French products are boycotted in American stores, American products are not boycotted here; i have seen Americans pouring French wine in the gutter, i haven't seen anyone throwing away Coca-Cola here; things with "French" in their name have been renamed "Liberty" something, nobody here has asked that the "sauce américaine" or the "homard à l'américaine" be renamed. Not to mention the dozens of mean jokes about French people that i've seen in American shows. Who hates who? Finally, i don't believe that my country is perfect, there are a lot of things i'm not happy with, and to take a parallel, we have a lot of military scattered in Western Africa and i don't agree with that at all. Those countries have been independent for 50 years and we should leave them alone. |
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19-05-2004, 17:56 | #52 | ||
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You know, I love my country, but I do not blindly believe what I am told. Yes, we have done bad things and yes, we will continue to. Any country that has a government run by man will be corrupt. There is no perfect system. I wish that we always did good and never entertained evil, but I would be foolish to think that the truth. Maybe I should feel lucky to be from a country that is a super power and not worry about what others think or feel about us, but I do. Not just for the safety of myself and my loved ones, but for future generations. |
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19-05-2004, 18:09 | #53 | |
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Have you ever thought that maybe the sources of news or America's opinions are being filtered through A) our shitty news and B) the news of other countries which have their own propaganda. Nothing is really honest there. I at least live here and have had the opportunity to mingle with a good number of Americans and I can tell you that most are not stupid enough to thinkt he Iraq's were responsible for 9/11 adn they also aren't the biggest fans of a lot of the things going on right now. It is just your pockets of ultra-conservatives are what is so heavily concentrated on in the media. |
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19-05-2004, 18:54 | #54 | |
viva la scientology!
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19-05-2004, 18:56 | #55 |
kis$ it
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goddamn b*sh
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19-05-2004, 19:36 | #56 |
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I've met and talked with fanatics from both sides. The pro-American side supports the war coz Islam is the root of all evil...from the beginning of time. All muslims are sadistic potential terrorirts.
Surprise, surprise...the other side thinks America as the land of the devil. All non muslim Americans are Islam haters and want to see the Arab world reduced to smithereens. And if you express any disagreement on either side, you're an "ignorant with very limited perspective in live". U should go to Iraq to see the full pcture...and that's all folks. Now on which side are you on? |
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19-05-2004, 22:32 | #57 |
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It is truly enlightening to hear so many different opinions about world conflict. I just didn't think I would find it here on this forum. I admire and respect the differing opinions. Living in the U.S. all of my life, I have never really known how other societies and individuals feel about us as individuals. I think we all want to be judged on our own merits and not simply because we live in a particular country. I want to consider myself open minded and I want to be a citizen of the world and not just a U.S. citizen.
BTW - I don't know of anyone who thinks that Iraqi citizens were involved in 9/11. I know that several of the perpetrators were Saudi origins. Again, in spite of all of our differences, I hope we find common ground in the fact that we all want to survive, we all want to live in freedom and we all want to have meaning and purpose in our lives. When someone tries to take that away, or we perceive that they are, people become passionate in their defense of what I call basic rights that each individual should have. |
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19-05-2004, 22:53 | #58 |
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there are plenty of americans who are antiwar. not enough, though. the liberal americans are very antiwar and myself included. however, not one of the 9/11 hijackers were from Iraq, although they were all from Saudi Arabi, most of them were affiliated with Al-Queda. Al-Queda has establishments set up in many countries, Iraq included, and that was a way for Bush to prop up his democracy and gain better fuel relations. it's been on his agenda to set up a democracy in Iraq before he even became president. call it legacy, call it bastardization, whatever. this was all him and dick cheney's way to gain power control, money, and possibly another term in office. i'm telling you americans, you can't let him be in office again.
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19-05-2004, 23:08 | #59 | |
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The point I had made been making was that the West had been short-sighted not to attack the Taleban and Al Qaeda before 9/11. You know what happened when in 1998 President Clinton launched cruise missiles at Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan in retaliation for the East African embassy bombings? Both the US Republicans and the international left denounced him, saying that he was just doing it to distract attention from Monica Lewinsky. It was widely condemned as US aggression. It seem that whatever the US does some people will criticise. I'm listening to Noam Chomsky being interviewed on Newsnight right now and I love the way that whatever the West does he condemns it. If it goes to war or imposes sanctions against dictatorships, he condemns its aggression and hypocricy. If it trades or deals with them he condemns it for supporting dictatorships and being hypocritical. |
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20-05-2004, 02:19 | #60 |
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My mother-in-law is an extreme liberal democrat here in the U.S. No matter what a democrat does, she praises it, if a democrat does something immoral (under the desk so to speak) she makes an excuse for it (he was set up). No matter what a Republican person does, it has to be wrong in her eyes and subject to selfish motives.
No matter what political event comes up, I can tell you what she will say before she says it. To me, that is what happens when someone has already made up their own mind about his or her world view. Noam Chomsky represents all that is wrong with the world. He has already pre-packaged his reponse before any event occurs. That is prejudice and mindless and allows no room for change and growth. If someone is predispositioned to hate, then no decision by the U.S. will matter. So, I guess we live with that. It is ashame. |
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