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11-08-2008, 17:02 | #121 | |
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What should be noted is, that Russia has a mandate of the international community to keep the conflict parties apart and to protect the civil population. Therefore the invasion of Russian troops into S. Ossetia was completely according to international law. The war beyond the Ossetian borders is not. Bush and Saakashvili played a silly game. While the Georgian president thought he could create clear situations inside the borders of Georgia with a surprise attack , the US were interested in how fast and accurate the new administration would react in such a situation and how good is Medvedev. Nobody thought that he would go farther than Putin ever was ready to go. Whatever the outcome, nobody can really win. All involved parties will be in a more complicated situation with a lot more problems than before. |
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11-08-2008, 21:01 | #122 | |
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11-08-2008, 21:08 | #123 |
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11-08-2008, 21:29 | #124 |
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Hm, if it were so easy...
There were lots of tensiosn the last few weeks between Ossets and the Georgian army. A few days ago the Georgian president affirmed to the Russian side that he doesn't even think of attacking his own people, but hours later Georgian troops set the capital of South Ossetia under fire, which cost supposedly the lives of almost 1500 people (claim the Russians) and more than 30.000 Ossets fled northwards to Russia (again said the Russians, which is in no way plausible - a number between 5.000 and 10.000 would be more correct). This was the cause that Russian troops according to their international mandate invaded South Ossetia and fought the Georgian troops, and because they were so much in their element, didn't stop at the Ossetian boarders, but attacked Georgian military bases, infrastructure and even civil targets all around the Georgian country, which goes far beyond the mandate of the international community. And this all is just a tiny bit of the whole story which would fill a whole encyclopedy to give at least an approximately correct picture of the situation in the country and it's surrounding. |
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11-08-2008, 21:36 | #125 | |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhhyZjNApBg
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11-08-2008, 21:40 | #126 | ||
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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11-08-2008, 21:58 | #127 | |
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In the whole discussion I tried to make clear why things happen and not whether this or that party has a right for their acting, because that's completely uninteresting for me. International law gave the Russians a right which never should be given to an involved party, and on top of that, them ALONE. Is this right? Ridiculous. But that doesn't matter at all. Fact is, quite a lot of interest groups play a game in a region, which was always some sort of powder-keg. And if children play there with fire the outcome is predictable. Who is the bad guy, who is the good one? - complete BS. |
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11-08-2008, 22:54 | #128 |
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It's plain as day to me. The person that infiltrates national borders (and we are NOT talking about Ossetia here, since they're bombing Tbilisi) will always by default be the bad guy. Of course the Americans, EU & NATO will naturally side with Georgia, since it's their ally, but directly connecting the US or even Bush with this mess is a very forced conclusion to make.
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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11-08-2008, 23:00 | #129 | |
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Saakashvili said a little bit too many words that Bush can disappear through the backdoor. |
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12-08-2008, 06:40 | #130 | |
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12-08-2008, 06:48 | #131 | |||
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Peace and understanding are utopic. It's in our nature to be territorial and combative. That's a phenomenon observed throughout the animal kingdom. When there are no enemies we have to invent them. Why do you think we have laws? The rule of law was put in place to restrain the beast that lies dormant inside all of us. Normality is only maintained through fear and intimidation... okay that sounds sort of grim, but it's not like I'm saying nothing good can come of humanity. Just trying to show that agressive inter-species conflicts are just as much a part of us as breathing. |
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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12-08-2008, 07:57 | #132 |
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Freddie relax lol, when i say humans, i am not talking about all. I am one person who does what he is suppose to do in life, i love everyone, i follow rules( GOD;s rules ) etc. If i can do it, so can the next person.
The good thing, not all humans are foolish, the bad news there are some who are foolish and those who are, cause destruction upon the earth. But hey people need to put down their guns and weapons, give each other a hug, love one another, play with kittens and eat some good food. Thats the way life is suppose to be. All i know, throughout all these wars, i have separate myself away from it, i do not support wars, never will. |
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12-08-2008, 09:06 | #133 | |||
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12-08-2008, 14:13 | #134 | ||
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On a different note: I was watching CNN today. It was interesting to observe how the lying anti-russian western press still managed to show the interview between Putin and Medvedov as they had their military consultations; something that would never ever happen if the tables were turned and it was the Russians who had to show the other side of the story. I guess that's the slavic way. At least from 2000 onwards. |
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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12-08-2008, 14:52 | #135 | |
no....
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I know you guys are having a serious discussion, but reading freddie say "Americans - Georgia" ... i couldn't help but say what i heard this morning. This country's people could care less about this conflict and i'm sure before the fighting began 80 percent of the American people had no clue a country named "Georgia" existed. I have mixed feelings about the current struggle in this region. I don't want to say much of anything because, like most americans, i'm not that current with Georgian/Russian relations... but the argument between freddie and argos has been really interesting and i thank you both for your candor. |
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12-08-2008, 16:13 | #136 | ||
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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12-08-2008, 16:37 | #137 | ||||
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Exactly! Just another unpaid bill. As with every violent move in this region, it makes everything more complicated and success of negotiations more implausible. Quote:
Ok, answer! |
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Last edited by Argos; 12-08-2008 at 16:41. Reason: double |
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12-08-2008, 23:02 | #138 | |||||
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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13-08-2008, 10:57 | #139 | |||||
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Oh, you could recognize such things? Imagine, I saw a documentary where they proved that the KGB killed John F. Kennedy and I saw a documentation which made no doubt that the moon landing of Apollo 11 was total fake, completely produced in the studio. Oh yes, I believe everything what TV puts in front of my nose. Quote:
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Well, let's summarize - Shevardnadze loosens his country from Russia, rearms Georgia with an every year growing support from the USA, begins to build a pipeline with western money, which is totally against the interests of Russia and at night tells the Russian president all the secrets he heard from his western partners. ---> Ok, I have to go easy on my diaphragm, it already hurts. Interesting that the USA, with all their CIA agents in Georgia (and Russia), supported Shevardnadze practically until the end, and the EU diplomats had hard work over months to convince them to abondon this guy and cooperate with the opposition. Oh yes, I forgot, Amis are stupid... ...And there goes reason down the river... Quote:
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Not that I have the firm opinion that Bush really has something to do with this, I'm more inclined that it's Saaki's own game, but we shouldn't exclude any possibility from consideration... |
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13-08-2008, 13:09 | #140 | |||||||
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Think about it some more.
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The thing is... it wasn't some crazy conspiracy documentary made by people who made ridiculous films about Roswell & 9-11. It was done by our own on-the-field-reporters, who're still employed by our national tv. But whichever... this is a bit futile, I think. I can't enforce my sources on you as absolute truth and neither can you do the same to me. But this is my belief of what happened in Georgia till Shakashvilli took office. Quote:
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ETA: A makeshift ceasefire is currently in place, but both sides already report violations. |
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. Last edited by freddie; 13-08-2008 at 13:59. |
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