sunwalk, I have been waiting to answer because I wanted to know more about what I was talking first
It is not at all a Jewish attitude to say that "sex is sick," and I am interested to see where
katbeidar read that in the Bible.
"While sex fulfills the commandment of procreation, biblical laws also teach that intercourse, which is called 'knowing,' is an act of great holiness, a gift from God. Sex is as basic an obligation in marriage as food. Jewish texts, including the Torah, Talmud, and Mishna, are direct about ways to enhance sexuality. Some ancient laws of
onah say that a woman's sexual passion is greater than a man's. To ensure a 'peaceful tent,' a husband must be attuned to his wife's sexual needs and 'pay her a visit' whenever she desires it. A wife has the right to regular sex; the frequency depends on a man's occupation. Students of the Torah, for example, are obligated to perform their marital duty once a week and the preference is Friday night."
That is for example. There are no "Jewish monasteries," and rabbis are married ... I was watching a film, a very good film, called "Trembling before G-d," about homosexuality among Orthodox and Hasidic Jews, and there one rabbi even expresses his opinion that human sexuality is so strong that celibacy is really not an option. It is in Christianity that you get the "Desert Fathers," the monasteries, the celibate clergy; Judaism is a religion of the community, of the family; it is about life "in the world" and how to live a decent and religious life as a Jew.
After I watched the film I read Leviticus, I think for the first time
And there are all the laws that you mentioned, the 'purity laws' regarding menstruation and discharges and so on. I do agree that these are strict - I've even read that they prohibit sexual intercourse during a woman's most fertile period - but I don't see them as meaning that sex is inherently evil or sick ... it's analogous to eating, I think. If you wash your hands before and after eating, and have other rules or traditions like always keeping a napkin in your lap, not putting your elbows on the table, and moreoever eat at certain times: in the morning, in the afternoon, and in the evening, but not between meals, would you say that eating is "sick"?
I don't see how it's any "sicker" to suggest that there are certain times sex is OK just as there are certain people with whom sex is OK, and vice versa ... you shouldn't have sex at a certain time just as you shouldn't have sex with a certain person. And just because after you eat you should clean up before you do anything else, it doesn't make eating any less respectable or desirable. Do you see what I mean?
Of course this is my view, that I don't see any inherent contradiction between the biblical laws and the Jewish attitude that sex is a vital and necessary and even holy part of a Jewish life.
sunwalk, I know what you mean about interpretation, and for tatysite I agree completely
But there is a difference, I think ... people do not just pick up the Bible, or any other religious written text and pick out "dictionary definitions" without thought for everything else and call themselves religious ... at least not in Judaism.
Religious texts don't exist in a vacuum; they exist within the context of a religion and should be seen in that regard.
One thing I love about Judaism is that in most other religions the ideal state is one of calm knowing - this is the way things should be, I know it, I believe it - while in Judaism often the holiest state is one of total confusion and struggle: not knowing what to think or what to believe. And to return to what I said about religious texts not existing in a vacuum, there is a rabbi that gives the following story:
There was a woman who came to a rabbi one day with a chicken; something had happened to the chicken, and she was worried and wanted to know if it was still kosher. And the rabbi began to ask her questions about herself. How old are you? he asked. Are you married? Are you rich or poor? Who were you going to serve this chicken to? And after he had gotten the answers, only then did he say, "All right, now show me the chicken."
What matters is not only law and precedent, but the human question. Rabbis do not interpret and teach the Torah abstractly, away from life, but are involved with it as a living tradition. And they are trained in listening to the people, in opening their hearts and being compassionate. God is having a conversation with human beings - he is influenced by Abraham, by Moses. And it makes a difference whether the woman is rich or poor, and what place this chicken would have had in her life.
To get a little back to the subject, I think "Trembling before G-d" is a film everyone should see.
It's mostly about people who were brought up in very strict Orthodox and Hasidic families and communities who realized, as they grew up, that they were homosexual. Or I'll just paste from the movie's website (
www.tremblingbeforeg-d.com):
"'Trembling Before G-d' is an unprecedented feature documentary that shatters assumptions about faith, sexuality, and religious fundamentalism. Built around intimately-told personal stories of Hasidic and Orthodox Jews who are gay or lesbian, the film portrays a group of people who face a profound dilemma - how to reconcile their passionate love of Judaism and the Divine with the drastic Biblical prohibitions that forbid homosexuality. As the film unfolds, we meet a range of complex individuals - some hidden, some out - from the world's first openly gay Orthodox rabbi to closeted, married Hasidic gays and lesbians to those abandoned by religious families to Orthodox lesbian high-school sweethearts.
Many have been tragically rejected and their pain is raw, yet with irony, humor, and resilience, they love, care, struggle, and debate with a thousands-year old tradition. Ultimately, they are forced to question how they can pursue truth and faith in their lives. Vividly shot with a courageous few over five years in Brooklyn, Jerusalem, Los Angeles, London, Miami, and San Francisco, 'Trembling Before G-d' is an international project with global implications that strikes at the meaning of religious identity and tradition in a modern world. For the first time, this issue has become a live, public debate in Orthodox circles, and the film is both witness and catalyst to this historic moment. What emerges is a loving and fearless testament to faith and survival and the universal struggle to belong."
It is not anti-religious. It's an amazing documentary; I highly recommend it
