[nath]

Originally Posted by haku

The Netherlands also said no to Europe. The EU is dead. I guess it's only fair that it would be two founding members that would destroy what they started 50 years ago.

Indeed if all other countries say "no"....France won't be isolated....and they would be obliged to listen the voice of People....so if all other countries say NO....Of course, it will take a long time, but it would be possible to build a new constitution, I hope a better constitution.
So don't be desesperated Pat.

PS:Pat , i read your post after having posted mine...and I 'm asking myself a question in reading it ...I surely misunderstood your post...but...I have the feeling that you "see" the Future Europe " as a kind of BIG FRANCE-GERMANY.....I mean about the ideologies.....I say that in relation with what you wrote about UK , for exemple.....
So I don't understand something....the future Europe wouldn't be a Europe with 25 countries...25 members ???
Because in reading you , I have really the feeling that as France was in the creation of this Europe, for exemple , France will have more right, more power than the other countries....

So I ask to myself WHY ?... We will be 25....is it because we are the older than the other countries have to "obey" to us and to follow our style of life , our style of thinking ?...
Because we made REVOLUTION 200 years ago than all the other peoples have to shut up and to venerate us ?...

I think that for a lot of people in France , it's seen like that : Europe would be a big "thing" following the "rules/models " of France and Germany ...
And I even can imagine the huge deception of our Président Jacques Chirac....I voted for him...and not because I was forced to do it ....but I won't never do it again, even if he was ready for another mandate.....because he's changed a lot during last years because of Europe...he became arrogant ....he wasn't seeing himself and acting just as the President of France but as if he was ALREADY THE PRESIDENT OF EUROPE !!!
As if it was an evidence , of course, that the Future President would be a French or a German....

So I just ask myself if it's fair....we will be 25 members isn't it?....
1/ Sorry but I feel we(French) are a little pretentious....we are the best ... I will be clear here...I love my country ...in the meaning that I love the FREEDOM which I have in my country...I think I'm very lucky ...BUT ...even if i would really fight to protect what was built in my country (state of mind...relation with freedom...) I don't see which right we have to impose it to others.....

2/When you see what happened in Africa with ethnic wars....what happened in Ex-Yougoslavia with all these horrible crimes just because peoples had different origines and mentalities...(of course it should be the fault of USA.... ).... I wonder how easy it would be deal with 25 members....
Just the simple problem of religion...France is a laïc state... some other countries aren't ...Europe has to be Laïc or not ? (About absorbtion for exemple , they've said each country will follow its own rules....because of this problem of religion...)

So if we follow the idea that France/Germany will be the model to follow ...
1/ As a French woman it's good for me cause I want to keep my free choice of decision if I want to have an absorbtion or not...
but ...as a free mind I think
2/ It's unfair that other countries which have different tyles of life have to follow "our " rules just because we were at the origine of Europe and we made the Revolution the first...

If the future shows that Egality of the rights of the 25 members has to be ....
1/ I'ld be glad cause I would think it's fair..
2/ But if somebody delete , one day , the right I have to absorbtion......believe me I Make/Do a New Revolution!!!

All this long and annoying post , just to say .....
1/ that I'm not against the Idea of a Big Europe....but I don't think it would be sooo easy ....cause we are very different ...
2/ that the Idea that it's an Evidence that it will be the France/Germany which will be the DRIVERS , the LEADERS of Future Europe is Dangerous.....

And as I'm a naïve mind , I ask myself a last question ...WHY EUROPE ? .....I mean ...I'm not interested in listening the "beautiful/political lovely speaches" which speak about LOVE.....I mean ...Frankly speaking ...do we really want all the other countries of Europe follow the wonderfull example of France just because we "Love" them and we want they become happy thanks to us ?....
Frankly speaking I would answer to you that the french people is an egocentric people and really doesn't care about the happiness of its neighboors...
When he cares, if you observe well ...it is just because "he" is afraid about "his" own security or just because his "counsciousness"....he feel lighter in his counsciousness in wanting peace eveywhere and it avoids to him to pay a psychanalyst!!....
I know my words are hard but I really believe them...

So WHY EUROPE? frankly speaking ....if it's just for ECONOMICAL ASPECT ....aren't we hidding a Pure CAPITALISM MIND under wonderful words as PACIFISM, FREEDOM, EQUALITY?...

I Have to think about that so I go to my bed now ...The Night Brings Advice...hihi...
Seriously ,there were just some questions which were mine and that I wanted to share with you may be to see more light after..