Gay High School
 

Have just spotted this article. So, anyone got any opinions?

New York to open gay high school

Gary Younge in New York
Tuesday July 29, 2003
The Guardian

New York City is set to create America's first public secondary school specifically devoted to gay, bisexual and transgender students.
The Harvey Milk High School, named after San Fransisco's first openly gay supervisor who was assassinated in 1978, will enrol about 100 students this autumn in a newly renovated building in Greenwich Village.

The new school's principal, William Salzman, said its curriculum will be academically challenging for the 14- to 18-year-olds, and will follow mandatory English and maths courses while specialising in computer technology, arts and cookery.

"This school will be a model for the country and possibly the world," said Mr Salzman, a former Wall Street executive. "We intend to have 95% of our students go on to college. We want to steer these kids in the right direction."

The school is supported by New York's republican mayor, Michael Bloomberg. "I think everybody feels that it's a good idea because some of the kids who are gays and lesbians have been constantly harassed and beaten in other schools," he said yesterday. "It lets them get an education without having to worry."

The number of hate crimes against gays and lesbians almost doubled in America between 1992 and 2002.

But establishment of the school drew criticism from rightwingers, who believe a separate school is unnecessary and a waste of taxpayers' money.

"Is there a different way to teach homosexuals?" asked New York's conservative party chairman, Mike Long. "Is there gay math? This is wrong. What next? Maybe we should have schools for chubby kids who get picked on."

The school will be an expansion on a 19-year-old alternative public school programme previously limited to just two classrooms.

That programme was founded by the Hetrick-Martin Institute, a gay rights youth advocacy group, which will continue to play a leading role in the new school.

I understand the want and possible need for this. Because currently, as a society we are in a period of transition. People are out and trying not to feel ashamed, yet still millions hate. But without gays and straights mixing, will we ever reach the goal of finding common ground? If they are separated now, people will grow up continueing to believe they deserve to be called "different".

But I guess they are different in many ways, and in those ways they are at risk. But just like the african american movements, we will not change unless we are forced to tolerate/accept what is different.

This may cause people to target an entire school, hate crimes on an entire school...a bit scary.

I have mixed feelings. This is tough.

Well iґm against it because i think itґs way more prejudice to separate a group from another. If we want to try to stop people hate each other, we must learn how to live together with other human being.

Cya

Dent :cool:

I decided not to post my own opinions on this initially, because I wasn't entirely sure how I felt. However, I feel increasingly strongly that ghettoisation is a bad thing. Imagine the outrage there would be if someone had suggested separate schools for those of Jewish origin, to stop them getting picked on by non-Jewish classmates and teachers?

I wholeheartedly believe that people should be able to go through school without coming in for flack over their sexuality, race or religion, but weeding out people who "can't fit in" is insidious, and who knows where it would end?

As a temporary measure, this could be a good thing. Part of the recent supreme court desictions about affirmative action in colleges is it recognized that the culture of a university is important to the college experience. If this unique school provides a more positive environment, then its cool.

In the long run, this is a bad idea. The rest of society needs to get a clue.

As for this being a waste of resources, 100 students is what percent of the New York city school system? At that scale, its just a matter of how you group students.

Although this does sound like segregation, I'll bet this is a school that you have to ask to go to, and aren't at all guaranteed a spot. Its a case of you can if you want, as compared to a case of you can't even if you want to.

OMG!!!

Damn!..i voted the wrong thing...i pick no....definitely
..coz..its their life and we shouldn't intefere it.
.its not our business...juz let them be what they want to be...
why force?

well....it maybe a good idea but I voted for "not sure" I think gay people are nothing in particular except for their sextuality, so I personally think you dont have to seperate that you are "different" from others :rolleyes: (So I don't support gay olympic.. I would prefer you join olympic and won the first place then proudly say that you are a gay!) but in a good way that you may getting easier to get a lover because nobody will freak you out in such school...

I'm not really sure how I feel about this either. I think in the short-run it is a great idea and will be very benefical to the students who attend. However I still firmly stand behind the believe that the only way to cause change is to make people face the source of their fear and hate through education. Until their has been a change in the way the majority of society views homosexuality I think this school will allow GLBT students to learn in a safe environment.

All Gay high schools aren't a new thing for the US anyways. There are several privately funded high schools around the counrty. This school is just the first one to be funded by the government. Also the students that go to these schools have experianced severe verbal, physical, and emotional harassment/ abuse. Some have been thrown out of their homes and others are HIV positive. My point is that the schools aren't just for any gay student, only those that wouldn't get an education if their weren't schools like the one in NYC.

Also I'm sorry but the right-wing in this counrty can Kiss my very gay ass. OT: has anyone heard about the amendment they're trying to make to the constitution about how marriage should only be between a man and a woman?

I'm not gay so I can't speak for the gay people here, but I do not agree with it. There should not be any black school, there should not be any white school, there should not be any heterosexual school and no homosexual schools, I think people should all be together. I mean, it's school, so what, people are gonna teach the gay pholks different stuff? :dknow: I can understand how it would help the gay people though, maybe they have problems in school because of it, and that won't happen if everyone else in the school also is gay. But I don't think it solves any problems, it's more like running away from them.

I agree queenbee, what if there were an all heterosexual school [no gays allowed!!!], that's just crazy, and someday they'll realize this.

nasnedagoniat, exactly. I think we should clear our mind :) The youth (and Im talking about really young people) might start to think "Oh the gays are bad, I cant even have them in my school so they need seperate schools" or something! Awful :(

I agree too. Iґve got a friend in school thatґs gay and heґs unfortunately bullied.
Itґs better to solve the problems locally. If someone should be moved, it should be the bullies. Donґt let the bullies set the rules!

Education. Not segregation.
 

I think this 'gay high school' is a stupid idea!
I can see that the people behind the idea have the best interests of gay teenagers at heart and I appreciate that - I would have given anything for someone to have cared 2 sh*ts about how I was feeling when I was 16 and trying to deal with being gay - but keeping gay people and straight people apart can only cause harm.
Yes, I would have liked to have had some kind of refuge from the bullying at school. Yes, I would have liked to have had someone to talk to. And yes, I would have given anything to be able to meet other gay teens who were going through the same problems, but I definately wouldn't have wanted to be shut away from the outside world and not have been able to have any straight classmates as a result of this!
This whole idea of having schools for gay kids and schools for straight kids reminds me of those awful times years and years ago when blacks were kept separate from whites. Nothing good can come from segregation - integration is the only way forward. The only way those narrow-minded, ignorant cretins who picked on me at school will ever come to accept gay people is if they mix with them, become friends with them and realise that we're not "wierd" or "sick". There is no way this will ever happen if the gay kids are separated from everyone at high school age, as it's around this time in your life that you begin to really form your opinions and judgements that will effect the way you think for the rest of your life.
I don't want to be shut away in some special school or even some segregated workplace like some leper exhiled on a remote island! I want people to accept me as a human being and treat me no differently to anyone else.

I realize most of those that have responded are straight, excepting a few before myself.

Most of you KNOW I was beaten in High School, and in my time around that joint I would have given half my kidney and the rest of the other to be in a gay High School. It's not that I think that racial segregation was a bean compared to sexual segregation, but white people didn't try making black people white by painting them white: heterosexuals DO TRY making us straight by raping us.

This gay high school doesn't try to segregate gay students from hetero ones, it creates a secure space for study for the students that have lived in fear of being hit or raped or killed, thus not being able to study in complete peace as it ought to be. Until an intolerant society like ours completely accepts that gay people are not only adults and that we're not perverted people, I consider it better to create a safe environment for gay youngsters.

I see your point. Now Iґve changed my opinion. Itґs good that there is a school for homosexuals. As long as the gays donґt feel that they donґt have a choice.
If they feel comfortable in their "normal" school, thereґs no idea moving. But for people like you these schools are needed.

darje, I agree with that, actually. Very good point. *thumbs up* I think that its a way to protect gay people, but I still think that all roses have thorns.. Kids can be so cruel, of course I would rather want all to be together and live in peace but right now (even though its the year of 2003) everyone still doesnt accept gay people... :( If there should be a school like this, I hope it will be out of free will to enter that school and not "Oh youre gay, youre not going to that school cause thats for straight people!" bizarre... Whats gonna come next? An all gay country? :spy:

The best would be if the teachers and staff could just learn to stop the fights and stop the bullies.

Lцfberg, no, the best would be if there were no bullies in the first place. ;)

Edit: Off-topic, but, HOLY COW my name is in your signature!

What are you gonna say next?
The best would be if there were no schools? ;)

Lцfberg, you read my mind! :D

Well, that was what I wanted to suggest in the first place. :D

At the age of twelve I changed schools, because of the amount of physical and psychological abuse I suffered at my local secondary school. This was simply the product of a bitter-hearted herd mentality in my peers. It wasn't about my sexuality or anything specific - except maybe that I was open about wanting to learn, in an environment where that wasn't cool.

Changing schools was hard. I was brought up not to run away from problems, but it did mean an end to the abuse I had been suffering. It's impossible to speculate what lasting effect staying at that school might have had, but even having left when I did, it's taken long enough to rebuild my self-esteem. And, finally getting to the point, this is why I'm in favour of this idea.

Teenhood is a hard time, there are few people more limitlessly cruel than teenagers without sentimental education. The hurt they cause to their victims often lasts years. So I'd much rather see those gay teenagers who want to study in a comfortable, supportive environment able to do so. Hopefully this will enable them to develop into self-assured adults, without the type of emotional difficulties abuse so often creates. Allowing some poor teenagers to suffer isn't the way to re-educate society. We should let everyone have the best chance to flourish thoroughly. And If gay people can navigate their teenage years with as few obstacles as possible, their self-assured adulthood ought to be best way to show homosexuality in a positive light. Whatever that means - as if we expect straight people to be good examples of their 'kind'.

I'm not sure whether I'm getting my point across or not. My instinct is against segregation, but my experience guides me away from my instinct.

Darje that was well said. I totally agree with you. Just this past year I had to be removed from my Math class because the teacher and students were making homophobic comments and my phsychologial as well as my physical well being was threatened. I barely passed the class for the year as a result and now my GPA is messed up.

Gay high schools sometimes mean the difference between life and death for some GLBT students. Let's not forget that GLBT youth account for 30% of the 500,000 completed suicides in the US every year or if you will 1/3 of the gay population. I don't know about the rest of you but that troubles me greatly.

It's all noble to talk about changing peoples' opinions but what do gays do until that happens. Just grin and bare it? I hardly think that's a fair judgment to pass. I also think that the fact that the US government is willing to support a gay high schools shows how far the gay rights movement has come. Even though the country is currently being totally controlled by the right-wing. Which in the US has always been against GLBT rights.

The gay community should in my opinion be celebrating this as a victory. It shows that people are finally acknowledging that there is a serious problem of harassment and that they are trying to fix the problem. Even if the gay high school isn't the best solution, at least it's a step forward and a temporay solution.

If %95 of the graduates from this school do in fact go on to college as the principal states, and that is significantly higher than the city average (and I bet it is), then you will eventually get a heterosexual student wanting to go there for the acedemics alone. What then? If you tell a straight kid he can't go there because of his sexaul orientation, then isn't that a kind of segregation? Even if there is an equally good school he or she could go to, the US Supreme Court ruled against the idea of seperate-but-equal schools ages ago.

As I said before, short term, this is good. Long term, everyone else needs to get a clue.

I'm familiar with the expression LGBT, but what does "Questioning" mean in this context?

Ok, this is totally off topic but I just have to say that yes, actually they kind of do... but this is neither the place nor time.


I have to agree with Charles here, no matter how rough it is for gay students segregation is never the answer, it'll only perpetuate the problem.

The only solution to homophobia is to bring awareness to the issue. Have more GLBT associations into the schools. Punish the shit out of students who would dare harass a student on the basis of their sexual orientation. Actually implement the ideals of tolerance onto the school system because based on precedence, it is bound to work.

All this segregation thing is going to do is create a bubble of false security for GLBT students that will pop after they graduate. No matter what, these students will face reality and will have to deal with homophobia. I can only imagine that having that kind of sudden realization would be more traumatizing than what gay students face already.

I'm pretty sure "questioning" is something like "bi-curious"...i.e., you don't know but you think you might be gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender etc.; you're "questioning" your sexual identity. And in this context I guess it means that this high school is open to and for the needs of everyone who thinks of himself or herself as "not straight."

I voted no. Why to separate gay people? Are they sick or something? Sounds kinda weird.

Lena said that she wants to be the president of gay world :lol: If those really come true, Lena could make her dream come true :lol: But to be honest, not all gay people like them :rolleyes: :lalala:

Nooooooo, but I certainly wouldn't mind Lena as my president, queen, tyran or mistress... :lol: Wipe the last one. :D

forre, it is not that we're sick, but as Charles said, it is a good short-term idea while society changes its ways with homosexual youth. I am sure that while some straight people also suffer from bullying, it is ten times worse when you go out from abuse in school into abuse at home, in the street, segregation in restaurants, public bathrooms... etc.

Then again, Charles, I turn your questioning to the other side: what about all those times in which a gay youngster was denied admitance to this certain school activity, segregated not only by schoolmates but by teachers, given low grades only because of his/her sexuality? I think it's quite fair to do to brilliant intolerants what they did to brilliant homosexuals.

I voted no...instead of making people realize all the people are the same and that it doesn't matter race, or sexuality they are making that difference bigger...oookaaay you save the bulling and stuff like that...but don't you think the school will be a target for homophobics?

An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth? Then soon we shall all be eyeless and toothless (with my apologies to Ghandi). The examples you cite are morally wrong, yes, but punishing "brilliant intolerants" might serve to perpetuate hate, not solve it. This school in a sense is a positive reward to compensate for hateful treatement. Gay students are knocked down by society, and this school can help them back up.

I don't think gay students need a special place like a whole high school for them.
It sounds weird, how can we learn to be tolerante if such segregation is made?

I still insist.

I may be resented, but the reason why I am not studying in a good high school is because a homophobic teacher gave me F's in Math through the whole year, when I wasn't even bad at the subject, thus making me go into extraordinary exams to pass Math and missing the period of entrance of the high school I wanted to go in. How should I feel? Grateful that thanks to him, I have to get my high school certificate on my own, with no teachers to help me on the way?

This is pointless. The only thing I say is that I like the idea of this high school, because it provides a safe environement for queer students.

At the cost of 900 gay adolescents killed per year, if not more? It is not fair that for heterosexual people to learn to be tolerant, they have to get scandalized about us getting killed.

Think X-men, people. People will not learn tolerance until they have us missing from their society, and even then it'll be a while. I have seen the most gruesome murders, made by boys barely my age. The reason? "Oh, he was a fag."

Hmmmm....I'm torn on this one.

Because my mind agrees that people won't learn to accept us if we withdrawl from society. That is part of the reason I am so out. I have the rainbow sticker on my car, I even have gay pride symbols on my checks. So clearly, I think it is important to be as out as I can.

However, I can't forget the abuse I took at school when I was a teenager, and I wasn't even out then. My friend Samantha *was* out, and she went through more hell than I care to remember.

With both of us, the large majority of the teachers looked the other way when we were picked on or even attacked. I still, even 17 years later, can look down at my right hand as I'm typing this and see a scar I picked up during one of those attacks.

If we'd been given the chance to go to a gay high school (assuming that by some miracle our parents wouldn't have flipped out) I know both Samantha and I would have jumped at the chance.

A better solution would be, I think, to somehow make the schools care about the welfare of *all* their students. It seems to me that we *are* moving towards more acceptance. Much more so than when I was in high school.

But should we leave gay teens in harms way? It is all well and good to talk about eventual acceptance.....but that doesn't mean much to the kid who has just gotten beaten, or even killed.

<Sigh> I guess I'm rambling. I'll stop now.

Parrish

I agree with parrish. I guess I am too sensitive about this but I'd rather see gay youth being protected than being used as a way to get heterosexual people to be tolerant about us. Just that.

In this case, I highly doubt that constant contact will lead to acceptance any time soon. Teens are very insecure and impressionable. Homosexuality is the main target of insults, and at this age where fitting in and popularity is law, most kids will say "this is so gay" if everyone else will. If you don't, you jeopardize your social status, and the joke's on you. Well, that saves them, and the trend continues. If the hate crimes have doubled in the past ten years, isn't it obvious that gradual tolerance isn't quite working?

True, not everyone hates or abuses gays, but then again, they're not the problem here. Will a BULLY teen change after going to school everyday with homosexual people? It's like giving him or her cleaned and gutted fish in a barrel to hunt. The bully has to live with the gay school mates for at least four years, maybe s/he'll change! Well...a gay student might have to live with abuse for at least four years, maybe she or he should just start accepting it? ><

It may be a temporary, four-year fix for a kid, but that's four years away from abuse, four years to mature with people who understand and empathize, and yet another four years for homophobes to grow up. In the "adult" world after high school, even the tiniest bit more of maturity and acceptance than there was in high school is present. It may be leaving heaven for hell, but would you rather grow up leaving hell for hell?

Darje is right: we have been denied opportunities. The lower side of the graduating class of my school is still accepted to prestigious private colleges like Stanford or Johns Hopkins. It has a "legacy" so to speak. However, I'd probably leave it in a second to be in a more comfortable environment. Hell, I'd give both of Darje's kidneys and mine :P Though, if I do leave, it'll probably be because I was expelled. If the head master or my advisor found out I was gay (or just paid attention), there would be so many parents lined up to enroll me for public school/psychiatric therapy, it wouldn't even be funny. Luckily, I only fear for my physical safety sometimes...mostly, all they can take from me are opportunities. Is that worse?

Race segregation is quite different from this. Racism is a physical, superficial hatred. Homosexuality is regarded as morally or religiously violating. Isn't it defined as a "sickness"? I'm guessing hate based on belief is stronger than hate based on aestetics.

And...erm, it said they INTENDED to have 95% of the class continue to attend college. If I was trying to propose something for government funding, I would say that same thing. No sane principle would advertise his school as a breeding ground for cretins.

I had a feeling that there were arguments like this in favour of the school - am quite glad I went for the "don't know" option rather than an outright no...

<changes mind more often than her underwear :) >