Social commentary: queer social events, bars, clubs, etc.
 

before i start rambling about what the scene is like in the city, the bottom line is that lesbians are clicky, exclusive, and well, highschool.
that was true at university of michigan. that was true in columbus. that is true in the city. the CITY. sigh. one of the hottest nights at a popular bar hosts a good dj and friendly bartenders. many, many girls show up. many of them are decent to attractive. but they come in with their group of friends and they don't talk to anyone else. they sit there in their groups all night and talk, to each other. not many people talk to others outside of their groups. it's more of a people watching event than a meatmarket, because there's not alot, or hardly any, number swapping and "hello, how are you"s.



what the hell.



girls are nonaggressive in general when it comes to meeting new people so how is any of this going to evolve.


however, it is understandable that for such a fledgling culture, it has only reached an early stage in development, which is the teenage, highschool stage. that is, the girl-girl culture is only developing and has not reached the full on meat market age. it's not as social as straight bars or clubs. girls who go to lesbian bars who are queer feel just comfortable enough to go with a few likeminded friends and have a night out. there isn't quite the comfort level yet to hit on whoever they see fit. there is a minority that do but they are just that: a minority. this observation, coupled with how nonaggressive girls are in general (something like..it's in their nature) makes the evening, well, odd at best. certainly not easy.


that is a bit of my commentary for now..




thoughts? rants? confessions of difficulties? general anxiety with the way things are? feel free to spill.

I think one of the problems are there because many straight girls go to gay clubs & bars. I know someone who hit on another girl in a gay club only to get punched in the face by the girl and then had her shouting "you get your filthy hands off of me, I don't to women!" at her. :none:

I think there's often a little apprehension to talk to new people, people stick in their own groups. I know my friend does now after that little incident. :bum:

Straight girls in gay clubs and bars?
What the hell are they doing there?..

I think some go there with their gay male friends, and others do it to get away from annoying straight guys for a night, only get get offended if a girl is attracted to them :rolleyes:

No offence to straight girls. But what a bunch of idiots!.
They should somewhat expect it! If they are easily offended then they should not be there in the first place.

.....

Yes you have, whether you know it or not.

.....

i think people tend to be quite cliquey in general. most like to stick to their own because its familiar and comfortable.

in cape town, i have noticed that _people_ very much like to stick to their own. sometimes thats a gender thing, sometimes its an orientation thing, sometimes its a culture/community thing. most times though, because we have racial lines so firmly entrenched into our psyche, its a race thing. [and i hate the race card so much. living in london i didnt even think of race at all in the time i was living there. people are just people to me.]

however lets get back to the gay community.

on the whole [in my experience -- big disclaimer], i have found that lesbians tend to hate men. hate is a strong word. we can substitute it for various other choice words/phrases like "dislike, abhor, feel disdain towards, detest etc etc" okay pedantic moment over. i get this strong feeling that a lot of women end up being lesbians due to their dislike of men rather than their love of women. ive certainly seen that happen in cases where women have been in abusive situations with men and decide to turn to women as the softer more protective option. the reality is of course that men and women can both be equally abusive but the logic makes perfect sense to the victim of abuse.

ive often had arguments with other lesbians about my

1. friendships with men
2. relationships with bi women.

on point one, they regard men as the oppressive enemy and im a traitor by having male friends. i view this as complete rubbish. not every man is abusive.

on point two im still a traitor and stupid to boot since bi women will cheat on me with another man. err and a gay woman wouldnt possibly cheat on me with another woman ? right.

ive also noticed a trend within the little pockets of lesbian groups where they will all sleep with each other at some point or another.

will write more later. am babysitting a hyperactive little 14 month old niece. who wants to post to tatysite too :) [shes trying to grab the keyboard while im holding her and typing :)]

Have to say I don't really agree with much of this:

If that is the case you can't call them lesbians. If a woman dislikes a man it doesn't suddenly make her wanna suck a girl's nipples. Yeah, I know it isn't all about sex, but it plays a big part.

If that is indeed true that is crap for the real lesbian community as those kind of women will break other women's hearts.

Personally I have trouble getting on with straight men. I love gay men, but me and straight men just can't be friends :none: Too many bad experiences.

Then those women are being something they are not. I highly doubt that few bad experiences with men will compel a woman to become a lesbian. And start licking pussies. (sorry, but I had to say it).

thats cool, no one has to agree with everyone after all. as i said in the beginning, i was speaking from my own experiences [people watching, talking to other girls/women and just life in general]. speaking for me : ive always been gay and havent ever felt any attraction towards men. i get along better with men in general both gay and straight.

also i think its important to realise that sometimes women end up with other women not necessarily due to an overwhelming attraction, but due to sometimes the first person who comes along and loves you, happens to be another woman. i actually know a couple who ended up this way.

zelda you would be surprised for the reasons anyone would start batting for the other team. after all, there is such a huge surge in the amount of girls and boys who are suddenly "bi curious" just because its trendy. [just to give one example of course. we can debate till the cows come home whether or not this qualifies as them being real gays or not but honestly at the end of it all who really cares about the definitions. i believe you love who you love. or youre attracted to someone not just cause of their sexual-physical attributes. just because ive never been attracted to a man doesnt mean one day i wont be. i really just dont know. all i know is for now, ive only ever fallen in love with women]

look, these are my observations, not hard and fast rules. there are as many shades of grey for any statement any of us makes, or any opinions we hold on the world as there are people out there :)

i have noticed that quite a few women turn away from women to men because of whatever happened that was psychologically damaging, whether it's rape or what. that is what makes sexual orientation a tricky topic. when women turn to women out of default, are they still gay? if homosexuality isn't a choice then doesn't this crumble that argument? i'm not sure where i stand on the matter but it is quite tragic and unnatural if a woman turns to another woman just because she doesn't have luck with men or doesn't like men anymore after some experience.

i dont believe in turning to men or women, ppl r just sexual. all those categories, who needs them. why limit urself to one sex, when u want someone, sex dont matter, u never know who u gonna fall for next.

I'm not a believer in all that :no:

it's not a belief. i've known quite a few girls who've been raped and became averse to men. period. and they turned to women. simple as that.

I dated a girl who was raped as a child and the thought of being with a guy made her sick. However, I guess she got over her fear of men because she's been with the same guy for over a year now.

My point is you never know what is truly in another person's heart. Human Sexuality is a complicated thing. Look at me... I'm going from lesbian to completely asexual... you never know, so why does it matter?

i am just saying, it exists. people were saying it doesn't. it does. very much so. that is all.

Well seeing as you posted this 4 days ago, I don't think you're anywhere near asexual, love ;)

Rach, i sense a deja vu. let's hope there won't be another argument a la mossopp.

Yeah, me too :none:

LOL@ you guys...who cares. HAHAHHA :none:

Oh my.. you guys.....

first of all - I am not sure I am getting this? do you want the Queer bars to be a 'meat market' place??? that is such a HORRIFIC stereotype! I dont go to bars or clubs to HOOK-UP .... and quite frankly, I dont see that as high school-ish. Any bar you walk to by yourself, you are going to seeing groups of friends that went there together .... some are more 'moody' and inclusive, some would speak to you and so on - it very much depends on the situation. I have noticed that a lot of butch-dykes at the lexington are very moody and all, but it's because they are somehow territorial... then again, not everyone is like that.

On the point of straight people, or speciafically girls, in lesbian bars - are you guys serious?!?! Read what you are saying - esp YOU zelda, it's been a while since I've heard such an offensive and discriminatory comment as:
Because of one moron at a club ... there are plenty of gay women would tell you to FUCK OFF if you were pissing them off as well .... or even better, you could've been in a STRAIGHT bar (oh wait, that's the majority of bars anyways) and a guy could've been hitting on you - would you yell: "Get off me, asshole, i dont do men!" .... and then he would say: "Oh, fucking idiot! You should NOT be here in the first place if you dont wanna hook up with men and are so offended by it!"
:blabla: I wont even comment anymore on your ignorant comment, but you can see it has made me just a little angry, darling ... oh yeah, and i have taken my straight girlfriends to a lesbian bar - one because they wanted to go with me, and two, because it is JUST A bar... it just happens to be very queer accepting and open-minded ....

I am not sure if you guys realize this, but if you read what has been said around here... :eek: I might admit that I am not attracted to certain types of lesbians (though lately I have been surprising myself with enjoying/linking people i thought i could never like before), I am definatelly accepting to anything... sexuality is so much more complicated than that. I have femmie friends, butchy friends (barely butchy or very bucth) ... gay boy frieds, tons of straight boy friends, straight girl friends..... blah blah blah... people are people. It is fun to have a 'common social' group - aka QUEER people hanging out together - but lets not build up walls around us :flag: .. and even worse, built the walls, and then hate all the different queers inside the walls :gigi:

p.s. still wouldnt mind checking the L.A. scene though - as I still stick to my desire to see more styling lipstick lesbians sipping on some DIRRRRRTY Martinies LoL :chupa:

I agree with Cools on this one. I think that was what Mossopp tried to say when she was talking about gay segregation. Building walls around any minority whether it'd be racial, sexual or religious just brings harm to both parties: estrangement, tensions, fear (homophobia in it's psychological term is still just that A PHOBIA;fear), missunderstandings and buiding of harmful stereotypes.

how else do girls meet girls? if bars aren't conducive to that kind of thing how are girls supposed to meet girls? what kind of natural environment is there

Good lord! :rolleyes: I did say no offence!. So you were not suppose to find it offensive. :coctail: Beside, my comments were amid at those who supposedly got offended by Rach friend. Anyway, my whole point was if a straight woman gets hit on by a female in a gay bar/club then she should not be offended because WAKE UP it is a gay bar/club. They should somewhat expect it. There is no justification for hitting/beating the hell out of someone.

Why yell and get cranky? Just simply tell him that you are not interested. What is the point of telling him "I don't do men." :rolleyes: If I am in a "straight" bar. I would not be offended if a guy hit on me because as an open-minded person I should expect it being that I am in a envirnoment in which these things are normal. Beside, I can't blame the person for hitting on me as I don't have the lable "lezzie" written on my forehead.

Yeah. It is obvious.

coolie, I sincerely apologize if my comments have offended you (Obviously it has; otherwise, you wouldn't have taken the time to write such long message). I have nothing against straight females as all of my so-called friends are straight. And I live in a town of straight people. :( :laugh:

Well, I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. But yep, everyone has their own opinion and that is mine.

I agree!

what was offensive? did i miss something

Same as me and i'm a Gay guy Myself, I can't relate to them. I can get on fine with Lesbians, Straight Girls and Gay guys but not straight guys?

It's the whole mentality.

*Waits for not every straight guy is the same speech* :rolleyes:

i get along fine with straight men, for about two weeks. until they decide it appropriate to have feelings for me then friendship goes to hell

Yeah, that's one of the problems I have :bum:

well for me i just have men all the time LMAO :no:

Same problem here :bum:

EDIT: eeek, I have 500 posts!

Lux, Rach, zelda, but do you tell the straight guys that you're gay? or you try to be friends without them knowing? because i have noticed that most straight guys you befriend tend to develop feelings if they're in the dark about your sexuality.
lol, this reminds me telling one of my male straight friends that i'm a lezzie just so he'd stop flirting with me. then he understood and stopped. and realized he was in fact gay :lol:

ive had guys try to score me even harder when i tell them im gay. most of them are respectful that theyre never going to get anywhere though and we have a grand old time discussing and perving girls together :)

that's also true lol.

I don't want to disturb this thread with a straight male comment, but i think you can find people who try to convert others in all groups, not just straight men, there are straight women who try to convert gay men, and even among gay people, there are gay men who try to convert straight men and gay women who try to convert straight women. In all groups you have people who see converting someone of the other 'team' as an interesting challenge, i've heard gay men say things like "the difference between a straight man and a gay man is a six-pack of beer" and gay women say things like "women are straight until they're not" showing that just like some straight people think that gay people are gay until they meet the right straight person, some gay people think that straight people are straight until they meet the right gay person.

Also, it's not unheard of for a gay man to develop feelings for a straight male friend even though he knows that nothing could ever happen, and gay women also sometimes develop feelings for a straight female friend, it's not only straight men who can develop feelings for someone of the opposite orientation.

amber : very valid points. im quite careful around strangers who are jittery about my orientation and make sure nothing i say or do can be misconstrued as "hitting on them". once the air clears though and my intentions are obvious [i.e. friendship] i have a grand old time flirting with men and women. both know im not serious seeing as im involved anyway