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America is over the top


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Old 12-01-2006, 00:10   #61
spyretto spyretto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forre
Why US again? This country takes as much as it gives. If it wasn't for US, many world funds would never exsist. Maybe US is over the top but many well developed countries are as well. We never look around our own corner, don't we?
aw forre I thought you came back to close the thread.

Well, I guess you're right, there are lot of philathropists there as there's lots in here too; but their politics are so wrong . They hardly ever used their might to stop the famine, the civil wars and their genocides in Africa where most of the suffering lies. Maybe because those people don't have petroleum or communists.
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Old 12-01-2006, 01:49   #62
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it sounds alot like a monologue.
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Old 12-01-2006, 11:42   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
And what exactly is your "American mentality" you have adapted to?
I spent the last semester discussing and writing papers on American culture, gays, etc for my diversity class. So I am not going to bother myself discussing this topic. But I will give you an example of what I meant by "adapting" American culture. There was this foreign female student in my college, she spent a decade in US. However, she was very reluctant to adapt the American ways. She disliked American music (any english music for that matter), she had no interest in watching American shows. Well, i think you get the picture. Basically, she was very grounded to her country of origin. I, on the other hand, am the opposite of her. End of story!

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Anglosaxon? Hispanic? ( Mexican? Cuban? ) Latino? Scandinavian? Polish? Jewish? Greek? African American? Irish? Chinese?
Illustrates that US is a diverse nation.
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Old 12-01-2006, 15:05   #64
spyretto spyretto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda05
I spent the last semester discussing and writing papers on American culture, gays, etc for my diversity class. So I am not going to bother myself discussing this topic. But I will give you an example of what I meant by "adapting" American culture. There was this foreign female student in my college, she spent a decade in US. However, she was very reluctant to adapt the American ways. She disliked American music (any english music for that matter), she had no interest in watching American shows. Well, i think you get the picture. Basically, she was very grounded to her country of origin. I, on the other hand, am the opposite of her. End of story!


Illustrates that US is a diverse nation.

So American culture has to do with American music and shows?
If you think about it, there's no real American music, unless you're referring to banjo songs etc. There's music sung in English by Americans and music is something universal. The fact that she was reluctant to start liking what you call American music does not mean that she disliked the culture in general. American tv shows? well, my childhood was full of them and I loved them but nowadays I watch none ;does this mean that I despise American culture or that they might not be that good anymore - or in any case I don't like them because I have found different interests?
Since you're at the university why don't you make a reference to American philosophy and literature? It's not in the same level as the European one but it is at least a very interesting starting pont.
Don't know if that's the end of story, or if you don't want to discuss about it. The fact that you worked one semester in those subjects does not bear much weight to the discussion. I have studied American culture and feminist culture before in modules at the University; we have touched upon gay culture as well; I have a masters degree in joint contemporary Political philosophy and literature, maybe you're not aware that I've been there done that before, because I never talk about it. Yes, I did it and I like it but don't consider myself particularly clever or interested to carry on doing it.
My thesis was on American culture and literature and I chose to do it. ( cause the other options had to do with feminism )

I still can't find that solidarity and identity in American society that other societies have enjoyed. That doesn't mean there's no such identity but it's fabric is more weakened than other societies. Violence was a good starting point, I think.
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Old 12-01-2006, 16:02   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
So American culture has to do with American music and shows?
Of course not.

Quote:
does not mean that she disliked the culture in general.
She ONLY liked indian music, movies, food, and wore traditional clothes that indians wear. Keeping in mind, she has spent a life time (figure of speech) in US. It iclearly indicates she is/has been hesitant to adapt the American ways. Do I care? of course not.

Anyway, enough with it, I am not going to sit here and talk about some girl that I knew for couple of days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
Don't know if that's the end of story, or if you don't want to discuss about it.
I had already discussed and wrote papers on these very topics in my class. I spend countless of hours watching boring movies on it. Basically, I am a bit tired of it.

And, I have only taken American literature class not American philosophy
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Old 12-01-2006, 17:30   #66
coolasfcuk coolasfcuk is offline
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sorry, but I missed your discussion about me, spy.
Hope you have your undies on proper now though, because I still dont get it WHY the hell do you continue to count ME responsible about the 'intelligence' level of this forum's posts. I am going to as much as I want, when I think it's appropriate. Go ahead, be the new mossopp, the new Jesus if you'd like, do you think I CARE? My ignorance level has risen high ... and YES, my main goal here is to indulge in the L Word and few other entertaining/mindless and or personal topics with friends. How do you want me to respond to:
Quote:
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter which origin US citizens are from because even recent immigrants seem to absorb the American 'culture' pretty fast and exhibit the typical American traits: gun obsession, ultra patriotism, religious extremism, ultra capitalism, and will to rule the world and bomb everyone who disagrees.
??? (no offence, Amber, but just our of curriosity, have you ever been to USA? Where do you get all your info from? ALL the American TV series you watch?)

I dont need to say anything here to 'defend' the place I live in currentlly, we have nath the frenchie putting everyone in the right spot, whether they like it or not why should i interfere with that, when I can 'waste' my time more properly watching the L Word
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Old 12-01-2006, 18:46   #67
spyretto spyretto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

My ignorance level has risen high ...
You said it
So are you out of the university now, enjoying the glamorous queer life? It can't last forever you know; unless you have an endless amount of resources. It's soon gonna be the heads in, cause we gotta bring food to the table.

Quote:
I dont need to say anything here to 'defend' the place I live in currentlly, we have nath the frenchie putting everyone in the right spot, whether they like it or not why should i interfere with that, when I can 'waste' my time more properly watching the L Word
Nothing that nath has said referred to the present state of affairs in the US.. Yes, we do know that French politics are corrupted - what a surprise! - Chirac is a crook ( oh sorry nath if I spilled the beans )
But then again, nath is pro American; I'm trying to remain neutral. I might be a bit ignorant about politics but I didn't buy into all the bullshit ( there's no other way to describe it ) America is lately feeding the world.
And you might consider me ignorant about the American life but that doesn't mean I can't criticise the way Americans present themselves to the world. And about my praise of America you better go back and read my previous posts, cause I don't like to repeat myself.

Lastly, I don't think I'll be the new Mossopp cause I've learned how to hold it together. Call it aging. But I'll be right here challenging you until you get to the straight way. You can choose to ignore me if you want.

So what else?
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Old 12-01-2006, 19:15   #68
haku haku is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasfcuk
no offence, Amber, but just our of curriosity, have you ever been to USA?
No, but i'm talking about the attitude that the US project to the outside world (and i am in the outside word so i can perceive that attitiude), i'm talking about the image and the actions (military and otherwise), i'm talking about the famous 'you're either with us or against us' attitude that the US impose on all other countries, meaning that if you do not fully agree 100% with US policy, you are considered an enemy, there is no middle ground, it's 'you're with us or against us', and if you dare to resist a little bit more like Iraq, you get military destroyed.
Of course if you are American, that's great because you are on the right side of the bully, but it's not so nice when you are among those being bullied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasfcuk
we have nath the frenchie putting everyone in the right spot, whether they like it or not
I have no problem with nath "putting me in my place", in all countries you'll find people who support US policy and people who oppose it, thankfully it is still allowed to say that you do not agree with the US.
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Old 12-01-2006, 19:25   #69
spyretto spyretto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber

I have no problem with nath "putting me in my place", in all countries you'll find people who support US policy and people who oppose it, thankfully it is still allowed to say that you do not agree with the US.
Nath supports right-wing politics and the most successful model of that is the USA.
( hope you take no offense at what I said, like cool did )

That's why I said I try to remain neutral.
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Old 12-01-2006, 23:24   #70
coolasfcuk coolasfcuk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
You said it
haha, well yeah, I like to WIN (lol) so why let you have the privilege ... ignorance is BLISS! LoL
Quote:
So are you out of the university now, enjoying the glamorous queer life? It can't last forever you know; unless you have an endless amount of resources. It's soon gonna be the heads in, cause we gotta bring food to the table.
is this trying to get me 'angry' or am i not getting it correctly? Are you trying to say that queer people cannot have a glamorous life and go to the university at the same time? Or are you saying that queers cannot bring food to the table?

Quote:
Nothing that nath has said referred to the present state of affairs in the US.. Yes, we do know that French politics are corrupted - what a surprise! - Chirac is a crook ( oh sorry nath if I spilled the beans )
But then again, nath is pro American; I'm trying to remain neutral. I might be a bit ignorant about politics but I didn't buy into all the bullshit ( there's no other way to describe it ) America is lately feeding the world.
Ok, about my comment and nath - I never refered to her politica believes, all i was trying to say is that nath always tries to show the complexity of the subject and tries to make people look at the subject from a different angle as well ... not a simple extremist view, 'cause any extremism is bad!

Quote:
And you might consider me ignorant about the American life but that doesn't mean I can't criticise the way Americans present themselves to the world. And about my praise of America you better go back and read my previous posts, cause I don't like to repeat myself.
sorry, spy, I've been skipping lots of posts in this thread (hence i missed your comment about me before), as i decide not to waste my time when i dont see the point, so I will not go back and read, sorry.

Quote:
Lastly, I don't think I'll be the new Mossopp cause I've learned how to hold it together. Call it aging. But I'll be right here challenging you until you get to the straight way. You can choose to ignore me if you want.
Once again, I'm not sure if you are telling me I SHOULD go to the straight way? 'Cause I get the straight way every day of my life, honey, whether you are here or not

Quote:
So what else?
nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
I have no problem with nath "putting me in my place", in all countries you'll find people who support US policy and people who oppose it, thankfully it is still allowed to say that you do not agree with the US.
amber, i wasnt talking about nath putting you in place specifically, I already explained what I meant when I mentioned nath. I dont even want to get to the political discussion really, but your view is extreme ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
Nath supports right-wing politics and the most successful model of that is the USA.
( hope you take no offense at what I said, like cool did )
What makes you think I took offense??? I told ya, ignorance is bliss, honey. I took absolutely NO offense, did you want me to? 'Cause if you did, just say so ... and i will work on it! LoL
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Old 12-01-2006, 23:45   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
Nath supports right-wing politics and the most successful model of that is the USA.
( hope you take no offense at what I said, like cool did )
I just react agaisnt the systematical demolition of The States with no balance and no limit which drove to the conclusion that The States were worse than some pure dictatures established in some countries.

If I was speaking to Archi Pro Americans , extremist in a such same proportion as some can be in the destruction of The States on this forum , I would certainly be speaking in a different way.

About your question Spy, just know that I make a huge difference between the private conversations and the public conversations as in this forum.

I would never bring into a forum something said by another person in a private conversation about its private life. So conclude what you want as answer to your question.

And don't make a confusion between right-wing and extrem-right....
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Old 19-01-2006, 07:54   #72
dare2dream28 dare2dream28 is offline
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I just finished reading through this thread, and frankly, I was rather pissed and disappointed after going through it.

First though:
Quote:
Originally Posted by darje
So why call the american members of the forums "over the top" when it's only their president that's the fucktard?
THANK YOU!!!!!!! I did not vote for Bush and neither did the rest of the majority of my fellow Americans in the 2000 election (well technically I wasn't old enough to vote in the 2000 election, but I did vote in the 2004 election and it sure as hell wasn't for that dumbass!)

I don't see how it's fair to pass judgment on ALL Americans like people have been doing in this thread. How is that *any* different from us, the Americans, saying we hate all muslims because a handful of them bombed our country? It's the same type of idea.

A lot of you have pointed out why America is so bad. Well, if America is so awful, then why do so many damn people do or try to immigrate here every year?! America is the land of opportunity, religoius freedom, etc blah blah. NO, we're by all means NOT perfect, but we're not that freaking bad! How lucky am I to be a FREE woman that is allowed to have graduated college & can now make a career for myself? I could've had the fate of being betrothed to some guy I never knew, only to be beaten & have it so that a camel is worth more to the husband than myself. Gee, yeah, America is *soooooo* bad for allowing me to have *such* an opportunity! Again, I know we're not perfect and I do NOT think that we're better than everyone else, but at the same time, don't pass judgment on ALL of us Americans just because SOME Americans are stupid backwards religious psycho homophobic rednecks! And I'm not even going to list the amount of good we do!

Thank you Lux & everyone else who's defended the US.

So please, just because SOME Americans are idiots, don't classify ALL of us as egotistical wasters, because yeah, there are Americans who are fighting to defend the environment, writing letter after letter to their senators to influence how the government votes, & is NOT against every nation that's not the U.S. *cough* me *cough*.

All I'm asking is to show some respect to fellow forum members...this is a place where people from all over the world were united because of one interest and now that we've known each other for awhile, we've gone beyond that one interest, but guess what, we're still from around the world, have different backgrounds, & come from different cultures...it's still no reason to show any less respect to anyone here.
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Old 23-01-2006, 02:00   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dare2dream28
I just finished reading through this thread, and frankly, I was rather pissed and disappointed after going through it.

First though:

THANK YOU!!!!!!! I did not vote for Bush and neither did the rest of the majority of my fellow Americans in the 2000 election (well technically I wasn't old enough to vote in the 2000 election, but I did vote in the 2004 election and it sure as hell wasn't for that dumbass!)

I don't see how it's fair to pass judgment on ALL Americans like people have been doing in this thread. How is that *any* different from us, the Americans, saying we hate all muslims because a handful of them bombed our country? It's the same type of idea.

A lot of you have pointed out why America is so bad. Well, if America is so awful, then why do so many damn people do or try to immigrate here every year?! America is the land of opportunity, religoius freedom, etc blah blah. NO, we're by all means NOT perfect, but we're not that freaking bad! Again, I know we're not perfect and I do NOT think that we're better than everyone else, but at the same time, don't pass judgment on ALL of us Americans just because SOME Americans are stupid backwards religious psycho homophobic rednecks! And I'm not even going to list the amount of good we do!
That all goes for me as well.

A Letter to Laura Bush

Here is an open letter from the poet Sharon Olds to Laura Bush declining the invitation to read and speak at the National Book Critics Circle Award in Washington, DC. Feel free to forward it along if you feel more people may want to read it. Sharon Olds is one of most widely read and critically acclaimed poets living in America today. Read to the end of the letter to experience her restrained, chilling eloquence.

Dear Mrs. Bush,

I am writing to let you know why I am not able to accept your kind invitation to give a presentation at the National Book Festival on September 24, or to attend your dinner at the Library of Congress or the breakfast at the White House.

In one way, it's a very appealing invitation. The idea of speaking at a festival attended by 85,000 people is inspiring! The possibility of finding new readers is exciting for a poet in personal terms, and in terms of the desire that poetry serve its constituents--all of us who need the pleasure, and the inner and outer news, it delivers.

And the concept of a community of readers and writers has long been dear to my heart. As a professor of creative writing in the graduate school of a major university, I have had the chance to be a part of some magnificent outreach writing workshops in which our students have become teachers. Over the years, they have taught in a variety of settings: a women's prison, several New York City public high schools, an oncology ward for children.

Our initial program, at a 900-bed state hospital for the severely physically challenged, has been running now for twenty years, creating along the way lasting friendships between young MFA candidates and their students--long-term residents at the hospital who, in their humor, courage and wisdom, become our teachers.

When you have witnessed someone nonspeaking and almost nonmoving spell out, with a toe, on a big plastic alphabet chart, letter by letter, his new poem, you have experienced, close up, the passion and essentialness of writing.

When you have held up a small cardboard alphabet card for a writer who is completely nonspeaking and nonmoving (except for the eyes), and pointed first to the A, then the B, then C, then D, until you get to the first letter of the first word of the first line of the poem she has been composing in her head all week, and she lifts her eyes when that letter is touched to say yes, you feel with a fresh immediacy the human drive for creation, self-_expression, accuracy, honesty and wit--and the importance of writing, which celebrates the value of each person's unique story and song.

So the prospect of a festival of books seemed wonderful to me. I thought of the opportunity to talk about how to start up an outreach program. I thought of the chance to sell some books, sign some books and meet some of the citizens of Washington, DC. I thought that I could try to find a way, even as your guest, with respect, to speak about my deep feeling that we should not have invaded Iraq, and to declare my belief that the wish to invade another culture and another country--with the resultant loss of life and limb for our brave soldiers, and for the noncombatants in their home terrain--did not come out of our democracy but was instead a decision made "at the top" and forced on the people by distorted language, and by untruths. I hoped to express the fear that we have begun to live in the shadows of tyranny and religious chauvinism--the opposites of the liberty, tolerance and diversity our nation aspires to.

I tried to see my way clear to attend the festival in order to bear witness--as an American who loves her country and its principles and its writing--against this undeclared and devastating war.

But I could not face the idea of breaking bread with you. I knew that if I sat down to eat with you, it would feel to me as if I were condoning

What I see to be the wild, highhanded actions of the Bush Administration. What kept coming to the fore of my mind was that I would be taking food from the hand of the First Lady who represents the Administration that unleashed this war and that wills its continuation, even to the extent of permitting "extraordinary rendition": flying people to other countries where they will be tortured for us.

So many Americans who had felt pride in our country now feel anguish and shame, for the current regime of blood, wounds and fire. I thought of the clean linens at your table, the shining knives and the flames of the candles, and I could not stomach it.

Sincerely,
SHARON OLDS
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Old 24-01-2006, 07:38   #74
catmincenz catmincenz is offline
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*applauds* good letter.
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