Suicide bombers hit Moscow concert

[RG7192]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3047386.stm

forre you have anymore info on this. and were the girls at this concert?

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Two female suicide bombers have blown themselves up at a rock festival just outside Moscow, killing at least 14 people and injuring more than 40.

Interior Minister Boris Gryzlov blamed the attacks on Chechen separatists, saying a Chechen passport had been found on one of the bombers.

But a Chechen spokesman, Salambek Maigov, told a Russian radio station that the leadership of his homeland was not involved.

The all-day festival featuring many of Russia's most popular bands at the Tushino airfield in north-western Moscow was packed with a crowd of about 40,000 people, many of them youngsters, when the bombs went off.

At first I thought it was a giant firecracker, then I realised it was an explosion

Eyewitness

The first blast happened as people queued near the concert entrance at 1439 local time (1039 GMT) on Saturday.

The airfield was hosting the "Krylya" (Wings) festival - a popular summer event for young music fans in Moscow.

Packed with nails

A woman detonated an explosives belt near an admissions booth when police tried to stop her entering.

Police say she was killed outright along with one other person and that many others were injured. Although the authorities say that it could have been much worse since the bomb belt failed to explode properly.

Fifteen minutes later there was a second, more powerful explosion as another female bomber blew herself up just metres from the main entrance.

The BBC's correspondent in Moscow Sarah Rainsford said that most of the victims were killed in the second blast. One witness said that after the first blast police told spectators to leave by the other gate - where the second bomb went off.

Both bombs had been stuffed with screws and nails, intended to cause maximum damage.

"At first I thought it was a giant firecracker, then I realised it was an explosion," eyewitness Vadim Trushkin told the Associated Press news agency.

Mobile calls blocked

Rescue teams were flown in by helicopter and the wounded taken to nearby hospitals.

But the police say the devastation could have been far worse, had vigilant officers not stopped the women at the gate.

Our correspondent said that as panic reigned on the streets outside, many festival-goers inside the air base remained unaware of events.

The organisers decreed that to avoid a panic stampede the show must go on and did not make any announcement about the incident, allowing the performances to proceed.

The BBC's Nikolai Gorshkov in Moscow said that the authorities blocked all mobile telephone calls to the area to allow the audience to enjoy the rest of the concert oblivious of the carnage.

Then slowly, but surely the concert goers were evacuated onto waiting coaches.

Terror fears

Our correspondent Sarah Rainsford says no one had yet claimed responsibility for this attack but connection with Chechnya would be high on people's minds.

There have been heightened fears of attacks by Chechen militants since the hostage siege at a Moscow theatre last year.

If the 'War on Terrorism' is really a justified war, then Russia deserves our support

Mike, US


Send us your comments

That resulted in the death of 129 hostages and 41 guerrillas, who had included women armed with explosive belts, after Russian special forces used noxious gas to disable the hostage-takers.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has been informed of the incident.

On Friday, Mr Putin ordered a local presidential election to be held in Chechnya on 5 October.

"I presume that this inhumane situation, this terrorist act, is linked with the staging of this event," Mr Gryzlov said.

However, the BBC's Russian affairs analyst Stephen Dalziel says there is unlikely to be a direct link, given that an attack of this nature would need considerable planning.

[freddie]

I was wondering about that. I bet we'd hear something about it if they were. And the chances are minimal.

[rivierakid]

True. We would hear about it if the girls were there, and I don't think they were. Either way, that's really sad.

[Mossopp]

Surely if tATu were present at this concert the BBC News site would have reported as such?
I truly hope Julia and Lena weren't there but it's an awful thing to happen, regardless of who is affected.

[forre]

Originally posted by RG7192


forre you have anymore info on this. and were the girls at this concert?

18 dead. The gig was for ca. 40,000. t.A.T.u. weren't there.

[kishkash]

That's just sick. Politics (which it usually is with suicide bombers) shouldn't be demonstrated on innocent citizens. People shoudn't be killed/mamed for the sake of a point that won't even reach the Govt!

If the girls were to be at that event im sure we would have read something on the forum about it! Hopefully they were no where near the place!

[RG7192]

Thanks very much forre.i can always count on you.im glad the girls were not there.but i do agree it is very sad no matter who was there.

[elwolf_x]

i've read 16 were killed, too many either way.

bombs packed with screws and nails? it's horrible how gruesome these terrorists will be just to harm innocents...

thank goodness they were at the entrances, can you imagine how much worse it would've been if they had been in a mosh-pit type situation? not that what happened is in any way more acceptable...

[QueenBee]

I heard about that too.
Rest in peace to everyone who died...

[Dent]

That's just sick. Politics (which it usually is with suicide bombers) shouldn't be demonstrated on innocent citizens. People shoudn't be killed/mamed for the sake of a point that won't even reach the Govt!

But the really meaning of terrorism is to provoke terror, fear. And innocents are the main target.

unfortenately there will be more attacks like this...

[elwolf_x]

i just saw some pictures of the bodies on yahoo news...it's just sick that people can do things like this, and moreso on a fairly regular basis like in the middle east.

i'm beginning to rethink my hate for us censorship of graphic war images and stuff like this. but then again, seeing these pictures doesn't make me feel scared so much as disgusted at the people who do these things.

[luxxi]

Originally posted by elwolf_x
bombs packed with screws and nails? it's horrible how gruesome these terrorists will be just to harm innocents...

Or using fuel air/thermobaric explosives against urban areas, indiscriminatly using airpower and heavy artillery against civilian targets, "screening" camps... Russians aren't angels in Chechnya either. Far from it.

[la aurora]

I’m trying to be polite always. But now, luxxi, I was really close to use some curses.
It’s not fair to say something like that. Not in this thread at least.

It sounded like u think we deserved these terracts. And we didn’t.

What have I done to feel constant fear for myself and ppl I love? How do u think, was it a nice feeling to hear about those explosions knowing that many of my friends were there yesterday and having no opportunity to call them (I think I was a right idea to block the mobiles. It prevented panic. But imagine how it was like for me… and other ppl)? C’mon! It was just an annual rock concert for youth. Neither audience nor musicians on the stage had anything to do with the war. Knowing our rock musicians and youth, I can suppose that 99% of ppl were AGAINST war.

And Nord-Ost tragedy! Did usual ppl who came to see the first Russian musicle bringing their children there deserve anything from what they had to come through? Half of the actors on stage were children, other half were youth, btw.

And even after some years the underpass of the metro station Pushkinskaya is covered with flowers still.

And those 2 houses of many floors with usual ppl living there? It’s all happened in Moscow during last years.

And that hospital the terrorists took in Bud’onovsk? And all those explosions at the market-places? And those guys always pack their bombs with screws and nails!

Do u think ANYBODY deserved this?

Saying something like that in the tread about terract is a kind of blasphemy. Open a new one about Chechen war and share ur opinion there. U have right to. But here… U know it’s something like saying after hearing someone has lost his family on the 11th September “sorry, but u, guy, deserved this. Americans aren’t angels”.

Russians aren’t angels. Neither are Americans, Italians, French… People aren’t angels as well as they aren’t cats, dogs or elephants. But it doesn’t mean they deserve being killed.

Chechen war is quite a complicated thing to talk about. It’s not our modern government who started it. Not even Mr. Eltsin who a kind of needed this war about 10 years ago. It’s a historical thing. Russia never had peace on the Caucasus. 100-200 years ago we were having same problems there as well. It’s our war and u don’t think we like it, do u?

using fuel air/thermobaric explosives against urban areas, indiscriminatly using airpower and heavy artillery against civilian targets, "screening" camps...

And why do u think it happens? Sure not coz the terrorist hide their asses behind backs of civilians! Can’t u understand, these guys aren’t Robin Hoods, they don’t fight for freedom. They fight for power. And they get much money from other countries (I don’t think I need to tell from who exactly). They enjoy the chaos they create. They are cruel (god, they shoot documentary films showing last seconds of the life of Russian solders they kill, they send their women to die like it happened yesterday or at Nord-Ost etc…) It’s not a war between 2 nations. May be it was from the beginning but now not. Now it’s not even ‘war’ its an ‘anti-terrorist’ operation as they call it. Usual civilians of Chechnya don’t want this war. They try to leave in peace, they have their government now and not so long ago they voted for their constitution. So now terrorists fight not for the nation but for themselves. Now it’s war about money. May be that’s why half of the terrorists weren’t born in Chechnya. It’s just a well-paid profession.

Russians aren’t angels either. For some of them it’s a good way to turn some ‘black’ capital to ‘white’. But, hey, it’s just few ppl having power. Can u talk about Russians in general? What have Russian women done to loose their children in Chechnya? What have other ppl in Russia done to live in fear? What have I done personally to wince every time I hear the word ‘explosion’?

[mir]

Hey does anyone know where the girls were hanging out yesterday?
I ask this cause i wonder if they were at that pop/rock festival near moskou that got hit by terrorists...
Surely hope they weren't there:

[EeZeReal]

Thankfully they weren't there...

forre confirmed it here..

[luxxi]

Originally posted by sunny poison
I’m trying to be polite always. But now, luxxi, I was really close to use some curses.
It’s not fair to say something like that. Not in this thread at least.

It sounded like u think we deserved these terracts. And we didn’t.

No, nobody deserves this. But I get pissed off everytime people say "Look at those _____ (insert group name here) using _____ (insert tactics here) while people complaining about this use tactics same or even worse. Nail bombs are bad, very nasty. FAE and cluster ammo are just as bad.

Originally posted by sunny poison

What have I done to feel constant fear for myself and ppl I love? How do u think, was it a nice feeling to hear about those explosions knowing that many of my friends were there yesterday and having no opportunity to call them (I think I was a right idea to block the mobiles. It prevented panic. But imagine how it was like for me… and other ppl)? C’mon! It was just an annual rock concert for youth. Neither audience nor musicians on the stage had anything to do with the war. Knowing our rock musicians and youth, I can suppose that 99% of ppl were AGAINST war.

Yes, I bet it was scary. And I know you were worried. Nobody deserves this. Russian or Chechen.

Originally posted by sunny poison

And Nord-Ost tragedy! Did usual ppl who came to see the first Russian musicle bringing their children there deserve anything from what they had to come through? Half of the actors on stage were children, other half were youth, btw.

Just don't forget majority of people were killed by Russians. Of course, nobody would be killed if Chechens wouldn't take it but Russian special forces should take their share of blame.

Originally posted by sunny poison

And even after some years the underpass of the metro station Pushkinskaya is covered with flowers still.

And those 2 houses of many floors with usual ppl living there? It’s all happened in Moscow during last years.

Are you refering to that apartment block bombings? From what I hear even Russian parliamentaries are acussing FSB for being responsible to give Russia excuse to invade chechnya again.

Originally posted by sunny poison

And that hospital the terrorists took in Bud’onovsk? And all those explosions at the market-places? And those guys always pack their bombs with screws and nails!

Do u think ANYBODY deserved this?

No, nobody deserves this. As for Budyanovsk, yes it was bad. Basayev's act was terrorism and should be labeled as such. Same as Russian army taking hospital in Grozny during Grozny 2 should be labeled as same. Not that it will be.

Originally posted by sunny poison

Saying something like that in the tread about terract is a kind of blasphemy. Open a new one about Chechen war and share ur opinion there. U have right to. But here… U know it’s something like saying after hearing someone has lost his family on the 11th September “sorry, but u, guy, deserved this. Americans aren’t angels”.

My response wasn't about Chechnya in general, it was about condemning nail bombs while ignoring FAE weapons.

Originally posted by sunny poison

Chechen war is quite a complicated thing to talk about. It’s not our modern government who started it. Not even Mr. Eltsin who a kind of needed this war about 10 years ago. It’s a historical thing. Russia never had peace on the Caucasus. 100-200 years ago we were having same problems there as well. It’s our war and u don’t think we like it, do u?

Well, deporting Chechens to Kazahstan surelly didn't endear Chechens to you. And indiscriminate bombings didn't help either. And if Russia didn't want to fight Causassina folks why did it expand there? Did they expect people there will smile and say "thank you" when Russians came there some 200 years ago? If you take somebody's land expect they will defend it.

Originally posted by sunny poison

And why do u think it happens? Sure not coz the terrorist hide their asses behind backs of civilians! Can’t u understand, these guys aren’t Robin Hoods, they don’t fight for freedom. They fight for power. And they get much money from other countries (I don’t think I need to tell from who exactly). They enjoy the chaos they create. They are cruel (god, they shoot documentary films showing last seconds of the life of Russian solders they kill, they send their women to die like it happened yesterday or at Nord-Ost etc…) It’s not a war between 2 nations. May be it was from the beginning but now not. Now it’s not even ‘war’ its an ‘anti-terrorist’ operation as they call it. Usual civilians of Chechnya don’t want this war. They try to leave in peace, they have their government now and not so long ago they voted for their constitution. So now terrorists fight not for the nation but for themselves. Now it’s war about money. May be that’s why half of the terrorists weren’t born in Chechnya. It’s just a well-paid profession.

Care to compare cruelty in Chechnya? Cca. 4.000 russian troops (both army and MVD), cca. 2.000 (or 3.000-4.000) Chechen fighters and 50.000 civilians (acrding to Memorial group) dead. While, I admit Chechens are unscrupulous I seriously doubt they would kill such large numbers of their own people. Oh, and numbers refer to 1. war only.

And it's so easy to label your oponent terrorist these days, isn't it? I bet you were calling them terrorists when they were battling 131. MRB in New year's eve battle. Or when they were battling army/MVD during Grozny 2. Or Grozny 3. You acusse me of lumping everybody together while you are doing same. Equating terrorist with legitimate resistance fighters figting foreign ocupation.

Originally posted by sunny poison

Russians aren’t angels either. For some of them it’s a good way to turn some ‘black’ capital to ‘white’. But, hey, it’s just few ppl having power. Can u talk about Russians in general? What have Russian women done to loose their children in Chechnya? What have other ppl in Russia done to live in fear? What have I done personally to wince every time I hear the word ‘explosion’?

And what did Chechnes do to deserve war? Is wanting independance from Russia such a crime you have to lay waste to country and turn Grozny to rubble? While I sypathise with Russian mothers loosing their sons in war I also sympathise with Chechens mother losing their sons in same war. But hey, they are just terrorists, right?

I didn't mean to turn this thread into thread about Chechnya I responded to a part of a post and you I responed to your post. If you want to create new thread about war fien. If you will respond to this post here I'll do same.

[Lцfberg]

R.I.P.

[convol]

I was sorry to read about this. I'm not good with expressing myself when it comes to matters like these.. but I just wanted to pay respect and send all my condolences.

[freddie]

Well, deporting Chechens to Kazahstan surelly didn't endear Chechens to you. And indiscriminate bombings didn't help either. And if Russia didn't want to fight Causassina folks why did it expand there? Did they expect people there will smile and say "thank you" when Russians came there some 200 years ago? If you take somebody's land expect they will defend it.

Exactly. That's the point here. Everybody seems too forget that the russians were the first aggressors here and there is a huge difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter. So was our Slovene army who defended us against the Serbian aggression just a bunch of terrorist's as well? It all depends on the point of view. I don't doubt that the tactics of some chechnian rebels are dirty, but I wouldn't equal them with Al Aksa or Al Quaida.

All that luxxi wanted to say (I think) is that we should condem all the violence and dirty moves on both side - countless innocent people died because of both sides - because of a game that is nothing more then a strruggle for power.

I of course sypathise with all the civil folk - both on russian and chechnian side and I agree that noone should ever have to go trough this. I just belive that there is no right or wrong in this case. Just innocent civilians who suffer just because some men struggle for power - on both sides.

RIP all the people who died at the concert. My thoughts are with their loved ones.

[Disengage]

Originally posted by freddie
there is a huge difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter

Yeah, and someone who blows up a concert full of innocent people who have nothing to do with the conflict would pretty much fit the definition of a terrorist.