Thoughts on religion and it's purpose in life

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by forre

to give some motivation...

To blow up a few planes.

[nath]

Originally Posted by Rachel

To blow up a few planes

This isn't Religion...this is Politic...

[QueenBee]

Don't think there's such a religion that tells people to blow up a few planes... well who knows, maybe someone somewhere in the world created such a religion, but none that I know of

I remember the most about Islam from my religion classes... but every single one of the big religions are based on love and respect (to some extent). I am pretty sure they do not recommend killing people. The problem is that these terrorists are not practicing any of these religions (even though they say that they do).

This isn't Religion...this is Politic...

I agree... We had a discussion with my English teacher about this... she asked "Why do people make war?" and someone said "Because they dislike eachother's religions" but the true answer was "Money"

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by nath

This isn't Religion...this is Politic...

I don't agree

[freddie]

Originally Posted by forre

The purpose of religion, on the other hand, is to give hope to people to give some motivation. Don't you think so?

Exactly. Actually religion was founded on man's inability to come to terms with his own mortality. Our personal demise is something completely incomprehensible to us. So we have to make stuff up to explain the unexplainable. Maybe hope is something some people need to become better functioning members of our society. Nothing wrong with a bit of hope in something other than this Earthly life. As long as you don't bother other people with your believes it's all peachy.

Originally Posted by Queenbee

I agree... We had a discussion with my English teacher about this... she asked "Why do people make war?" and someone said "Because they dislike eachother's religions" but the true answer was "Money"

Offtop:
Not always money. Sometimes - or rather almost always - it's about power. People tend to get addicted to power. Then there's also impotence. Impotence can do terrible things to a man's self-worth ... it'll make him angry and depressed... up to a point where he'll have to forward that anger to someone else. That's the inadvertant drive behind Adolf Hitler's madness, me thinks.

[QueenBee]

So we have to make stuff up to explain the unexplainable.

Hehe! I like the way you put that. "So, you know, we like, make stuff up!"

Not always money. Sometimes - or rather almost always - it's about power. People tend to get addicted to power.

You're right. I was wrong. Money or power, or both...

Offtop:

Then there's also impotence. Impotence can do terrible things to a man's self-worth ... it'll make him angry and depressed... up to a point where he'll have to forward that anger to someone else. That's the inadvertant drive behind Adolf Hitler's madness, me thinks.

Ouch. But still, lol at that. Hitler was a genius though, so he had at least something to be proud of... *please don't kill me for saying Hitler was a genius*

[the unforgiven]

this thread reminds me a discussion I have with one of my friend and a young priest ...

in my opinion, it doesn't matter if God exists or not
most of people ( who believe in God or whatever ) see their religion as a support to go through illness, sadness etc etc
so it's ok if they need it

btw, I'm catholic but I never go to church lol but I use to help every "good ideas" of my "little community" like helping poor people, making concert of classic music in the church and else
it's not very religious but sometimes there's "religious events" which are good for everybody, no matter of religion everybody is welcome

but, in general there's good and bad side in religion ... it's life
the only thing I don't respect is the extremists

I think that's all I can explain in english ( I feel so stupid right now )

[Winkie]

You're not stupid! *hugs* I understand what you mean..

[nath]

Originally Posted by Freddie

Not always money. Sometimes - or rather almost always - it's about power.

I absolutely agree with you, Freddie, about this key-word: "Power".

Originally Posted by Rachel

I don't agree

Rachel, I explain myself better:

When I read that:

Originally Posted by Xmad

There's no force in accepting the Islam.That's what I read in the books.but not true in Iran.because here there's no way I can change my religion.If I do then the gov. has right to kill me.

,
When I see the previous regime of Talibans in Afghanistan....I really don't believe the real purpose of those 2 leaders is The Religion for their population.
Their real purposes are THE POWER...and the expansion of this power in using tool as religion..

....I've written something wrong, so I do it again: "in using tool as A HIJACKED RELIGION.."...
From Religion, they've just kept the interdictions and they've increased the notion of guilt...
They just use Religion as a blackmail on the conscience, just as a fear...

There is the notion of guilt in the Religions BUT there isn't JUST that...as Forre said previously, Religion is "Hope" too...

Btw the unforgiven, I absolutely love what you've wrote...I think Religion is that too...something which gives warmness, joy of sharing moments, feelings together, to try to give something for free to others..

So Rach, I think it depends about the point of view: when you have a plot, an attempt/attack, who is for you the real responsible: the "Brain" or the "Hand"?

From my point of view, all the Brains just want to reach the POWER....and the "Power for the Power", not even for their Religion..
That's why I've called that "Politic".

[the unforgiven]

Nath I totally agree with you and your point of view on the politic way of "using religion"

Originally Posted by nath

I absolutely love what you've wrote...I think Religion is that too...something which gives warmness, joy of sharing moments, feelings together, to try to give something for freely to others..

thx, you just wrote what I wanna say but my english is so ... bad

[Khartoun2004]

Originally Posted by gluttony85

Well, can I say that religion is the ROOT of all EVIL???

I agree with you fro the most part... However, religion is only evil when it is used to justify the oppression, murder and political, ideologic and physical enslavement of non-followers. Not all religions aim to convert everyone else to their belief system either through non-violent or violent means.

In fact I know of one religion, that's main principle is every individuals right to search for what they think is the truth, which of course is Unitarian Universalism. The only war I know of that was started by UUs was the American Revolution, which was fought to overthrow the tyranny of an English King 3,000 miles away. Then there are the varying forms of buddhism in Eastern cultures. As far as I know, there have not been any wars started because of buddhism. I can name a few others, but I won't.

In regards to the other "major" religions of the world, I would have to say that Chirstianity, Islam and Judaism (the latter two being the most recent in history) are the most destructive oppressive religions ever thought of by men. As Haku mentioned earlier. The part I find ironic is that all three of those religions have common founder in Abraham, yet they can't get along, or get over their idea that they're right and the rest of us are evil.

[nishershevone]

i'm an agnostic...i don't care about religions...but if i have to be in a religion...it would be bahaism...its belief is that all religions in this world is right, all accepted by God...

[dradeel]

My personal thought on religions:
I don't find a need in wondering about anything we cannot know. I don't completely look at myself as an atheist (allthough I might say that for those who don't care and just wants a quick answer) cause I don't say there is no God, as I don't say there is one - I don't believe in any "super human force" either. I just don't believe... I don't look upon the issue of a god as a problem/something I have any interest in. Yes, religion is interesting, but simply on a historical scale, not as a question of 'who/what put the universe together that ultimately lead to our excistance".

I believe in scientific methods of finding out the truth about humanity and our university. Whatever we don't scientificly know I don't fantasize about. I have no beliefs or make no assumptions - I just don't think of it as the correct approach to the problem. If you convince yourself that your assumptions are true simply because they could make alotta sense, without being able to test them, I think you've already lost. Whatever you don't know you can't be convinced about - that's how I think at least.

As for my view on the position of religion in the world today:
Well, religion in itself isn't the root to evil/war/and so on. But religion hand in hand with power often leads to war and evil. Religion is extremely good in uniting people for a common goal when it comes to wars. Also, religious people with power will work against any scientific discovery that might put the religion in the shadow, and surely we don't need a pope or a Vatican saying it's a bigger chance of getting AIDS if you use condoms, and therefor strongly advice against the use of it in f.ex. Africa.

So aye, I think the world would be better if there were no organized religions. I say organized religions, because it's a fact that most personal religious people are super! In that way it can be very good for alotta individuals, as many religious people do good deeds because of their beliefs ... how can I dislike that?

[freddie]

No point in starting a new thread about this, but it's worth a mention:

Pope Benedict XVI outraged Muslims around the world when he quoted Manuel II Palaiologos as saying: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached..." recently in a lecture at the University of Regensburg in Germany. Most Arab countries (As well as those non-arab with predominately Islamic tradition) voiced their anger over popes statements. There were some extreme cases (mostly from Iran and Iraq) declaring Jihad on the Vatican and threatening with retributions. To most radical scholars this is no less than "a Western conspiracy against Islam". A nun was killed in Somalia. Churches are burning in Palestine.

I have nothing against Islam as a religion but come on! Enough is enough. How long will Islam continue to be treated as a holy cow of religions? It's okay take a critical viewpoint on any other religion apart from Islam. As soon as something happens we have pissed off armed people running around with burning crosses (and sometimes American flags) declaring war on everything western. What is it about Islam that makes it so damn special compared to other religions who've been under fire of cynics for centuries now?

[PowerPuff Grrl]

Not to completely disregard the reaction or anything, but honestly, I kind of have to side with the Muslims on this one.

Consider the blatant fricking hypocrisy in his choice of quotes from the Middle Ages that Mohammed/Islam is inherently violent and never contributed anything without the use of violence. Around this time Islam was at its Golden Age (I think) already developing optics, hydraulics, Algebra, and preserving the writings of Aristotle, Plato and Socrates while Catholics were busy destroying libraries in Spain (built by Muslims!), Eastern Christianity, and of course Jews.

And nevermind that the quote was taken from a Byzantinium Emperor in a city that Catholics destroyed.

Pretty comfortable saying that bullshit from Germany!
As if being Orthodox Christian in the Middle East wasn't hard enough already! Now those poor Churches have to deal with this shit that had nothing to do with them! Four Churches were attacked in Palestine; one was Anglican, another was Catholic and the two others were both Greek Orthodox. I can only imagine what the Egyptian Orthodox Church is going through.

Thanks Pope Benny!

PS: About the Muslim reaction though; how Goddamn insecure do you have to be to always get upset over this?

[freddie]

Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl

Not to completely disregard the reaction or anything, but honestly, I kind of have to side with the Muslims on this one.

Consider the blatant fricking hypocrisy in his choice of quotes from the Middle Ages that Mohammed/Islam is inherently violent and never contributed anything without the use of violence. Around this time Islam was at its Golden Age (I think) already developing optics, hydraulics, Algebra, and preserving the writings of Aristotle, Plato and Socrates while Catholics were busy destroying libraries in Spain (built by Muslims!), Eastern Christianity, and of course Jews.

And nevermind that the quote was taken from a Byzantinium Emperor in a city that Catholics destroyed.

Pretty comfortable saying that bullshit from Germany!
As if being Orthodox Christian in the Middle East wasn't hard enough already! Now those poor Churches have to deal with this shit that had nothing to do with them! Four Churches were attacked in Palestine; one was Anglican, another was Catholic and the two others were both Greek Orthodox. I can only imagine what the Egyptian Orthodox Church is going through.

Thanks Pope Benny!

PS: About the Muslim reaction though; how Goddamn insecure do you have to be to always get upset over this?

Yeah, for sure. I'm not saying it wasn't hypocritical from the pope. I mean come on... The Crusades? Using children and women as live shields in the name of Him? The Inquisition? Medievil witch hunts? All of those pure evil at it's finest.

But I'm still bothered by extreme reactions everytime anyone says ANYTHING about Islam. I mean it's obvious why they'd be insecure since a good part of the non-islamic world sees them as out of control lunatics, but instances like these... they just don't really help in changing that viewpoint.

[dradeel]

Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl

Not to completely disregard the reaction or anything, but honestly, I kind of have to side with the Muslims on this one.

Mhm... I tend to side with the Muslims over and over again lately. I'm sick and tired of the judeochristian west's presumptuous behaviour. Not that I agree with the methods that the muslims are using tho; making revolts by storming and destroying buildings. Not at all! ... but still, I understand that they're furious.

Originally Posted by freddie

they just don't really help in changing that viewpoint.

That's another side of this whole problem, and a very good point too. Personally I think the ball has been with the muslims along time now, but when they don't wanna play ball the west gets upset and starts acting like jerks - and then the muslim world replies, often with hard-hitting methods.

[PowerPuff Grrl]

Originally Posted by dradeel

That's another side of this whole problem, and a very good point too. Personally I think the ball has been with the muslims along time now, but when they don't wanna play ball the west gets upset and starts acting like jerks - and then the muslim world replies, often with hard-hitting methods.

Really?
How do you find the West acting like jerks when it comes to religion, particularly towards Islam (Not politics)? If anything I find that the West constantly tip-toes around Islam fearing any outbursts like this which ticks me off because it excuses and even encourages this behaviour and also because quite frankly these fundamentalists don't deserve our respect.

The very presence of a Christian in the Muslim world, or even any non-Muslim, would offend these people. The fricking gall of being offended by what anybody in the West says (or draws) about Islam while totally feeling entitled to say whatever and do whatever they want to any non-Muslim without any slightest consideration of retaliation really, really pisses me off.

That and what freddie said of them not shutting the hell up already!... (obviously paraphrasing here ).

[Mary-sheccid]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

"Why do people make war?" a"

My answer is: the people make war to make movies..

[nishershevone]

Offtop:

Originally Posted by Mary-sheccid

the people make war to make movies..

how is that?

religion is for deeply-in-need poor people...instead of doing something..they just pray and pray and pray...they are expecting that God will do everything for them!