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The War on Iraq has started!! I bet t.A.T.u. is mad


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Old 20-03-2003, 21:37   #21
EeZeReal EeZeReal is offline
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I Don't Support It..

Although saying that, Saddam is the biggest tyrant to hold such a powerful position over a country and his day was bound to come sometime soon. Why not make it now before he gets the chance to Kill/Exile more of his own people or actually use those weapons he's been brewing for so damn long.
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Old 20-03-2003, 23:58   #22
YLuelniaa YLuelniaa is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charles
I'm a US citizen, and I don't support this war. I have yet to hear an explaination of why we have done this that I believe. Terrorism?

I don't have a problem with the US military. I expect them to do their jobs well. Its the politicians that I hold responsible. Like it or not, this is a diplomatic failure.
Couldn't have said it better..you took the words out of my mouth
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Old 21-03-2003, 01:59   #23
kr0k0 kr0k0 is offline
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Hm, this war had to be done, I hope in two weeks the coalition forces will enter in Bagdad and all is over ... oh, and the oil price will go down !!
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Old 21-03-2003, 02:40   #24
goku goku is offline
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My source

Quote:
Only in recent history has humankind discovered the means with which to increase the average human lifespan and reduce infant mortality rate: sanitation practices and modern medicines. With these discoveries, we have multiplied our numbers faster than ever before, going from 1 billion to 2 billion in only 123 years, such a brief moment in human history. As is the nature of unchecked growth, the momentum accelerated and the world went from 5 billion people to 6 billion in only 12 short years. The balance of nature has been drastically upset and the environment is already paying the price.

"It's not because people started breeding like rabbits.
It's that they stopped dying like flies."
... Nicholas Eberstadt, a demographer at the American Enterprise Institute
The world is growing by more than 76 million people a year. At the current rate of growth, even accounting for a continual decrease in the growth rate, the world population is headed for double digits within 50 years. Every 20 minutes, the world adds another 3,500 human lives but loses one or more entire species of animal or plant life - at least 27,000 species per year. The world population has doubled in the last 40 years. It took just 12 years to leap from 5 billion to 6 billion. It took about 18 centuries for the earth to reach its first one billion inhabitants. The world is adding a city the size of Los Angeles every two weeks.

Birth rates are falling worldwide but death rates are declining even faster. A tiny fraction - only 7 percent - of the world's people live in countries where population is not growing.

If fertility remained at current levels, the population would reach the absurd figure of 296 billion in just 150 years. Even if it dropped to 2.5 children per woman and then stopped falling, the population would still reach 28 billion.

1.2 billion people worldwide are living on $1.00 a day or less.


Reasons Why Population Matters

Worsening water scarcity stems in large part from increases in human demand. Water tables are dropping world wide.

Pollution in cities is the number one killer of young children because of respiratory diseases. Cities are growing at an alarming rate.

Worldwide, 800 million people are malnourished, and the number could grow significantly. Farming lands are suffering from soil erosion and desertification.

The poor are getting poorer due to competition for resources while governments are strained to keep up with them and economies fail.

The world's oceans are overfished and the coral reefs are dying

Humanity is rapidly changing the earth's atmosphere and thus its climate

Wild habitats that shelter endangered plants and animals are giving way to human activities and needs

Disease knows no borders, and crowding helps spread disease, and lack of education in reproductive health is a factor in the recent upsurge of infectious disease

Migration pressures are aggravated by rapid population growth

Civil conflict often emerges in societies where rapid population growth combines with environmental scarcity to undermine governments.

At 1% Population Growth Rate, Only 1300 Years Before We Exceed One Person per Square Foot of Land.
http://www.overpopulation.org/

My thoughts are not far-fetched...
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Old 21-03-2003, 02:49   #25
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
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Well, Bush said that he wants to restructure the Middle East with a Marshall-like Plan. Attacking Iraq and removing Saddam would be the gateway to that mission.
All I have to say is... alright. (Though they should've started with Saudi Arabia, IMHO.)

If Bush honestly wants to create stable democratic countries in the Middle East, then I say grrrreat!
However, history has proven that when it comes to selecting and installing leaders, America sucks ass. The US claims to have developed free-enterprise democracies but most of this development has come at the expense of the people's blood.

Like what Charles said "Historically, the US has supported much worse regimes than Iraq as political allies."
E.g.: Chile and Pinochet.
More recently Afghanistan; the Northern Alliance is just as bad as the Taliban. As soon as the Western Media's attention diverted from Afghanistan the women were treated in the same demeaning manner.
Even before then, the Taliban was supported by the US. The US tends to leave countries as soon as their purpose is served. And often, if not always, they leave them with dictators in charge.

But I kind of have faith. Britain is by their side and they tend to kick ass when installing leaders. I hope that this war is short as hell and something good actually comes out of it.

But I worry about the future of the UN. I never really liked the UN but it does serve some purpose.
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Old 21-03-2003, 04:47   #26
Jan Jan is offline
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Pinochet made Chile one of the most prosperous counties in South America, when it was on the way of becoming another Cuba or Vietnam.
Then he stept down.

goku, - that is al just one point of view. I heard completely different opinions. In any case- killing people is hardly an answer.
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Old 21-03-2003, 05:43   #27
goku goku is offline
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Agreed. That is what I said in my preface...
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Old 21-03-2003, 06:28   #28
Jan Jan is offline
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Quote:
So, is the lost of lives good? Of course not, but it will do a little something.
Well, it is hardly the same as what I said.
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Old 21-03-2003, 18:34   #29
Echoed Echoed is offline
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This isn't really a war. It's a massacre. (Well, that is if all the Iraqi soldiers don't surrender.)

One American death due to actual warmongering.

Four American and twelve English deaths because of weather conditions.

*Shrugs.* This will be over in less than a month. My father and I are guessing about two to three weeks. Maybe even less.

I have no stance on the war.

~Echo.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Quietly weaving,
Tiredly leaving,
Another today,
Again tomorrow
Together dismay,
And raining sorrow.


Le noir, la gloire... On se demande bien.
Mais comm' je t'adore, lorsque je m'endors...
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Old 22-03-2003, 02:05   #30
Tasiya Tasiya is offline
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And after the war? What will follow? The people there have nothing. I' ve heard that Bush had asked the UN, who wants to pay the reconstruction? Not the US! We have to pay, especially Germany! Because we always have to pay for such things! The US destroy everything ... and we have to pay! Super!
Fact is Bush doesn't want to help the people in the Iraq!
It's not his first priority to take a mad man's weapon away to rescue the people from an dictatorship. He wants the oil! He wants the control! Most people here in Germany have this opinion!
Bush is not much better than Hussein! He has also a lot of weapons, he doesn't care about the opinions of other states, and does what he wants!
And Mr. Blair is so stupid! 96 % of the people in his country are against the war.
The war won't hurt Hussein so much, just civilians will become hurt! And the future! A lot of people will escape from the Iraq, but they won't go to the US, no they will come to Europe, and to Germany...and if we would say no they would say...oh the nazis ( is that word right...I don't know!). I'm not a rassist, and we have a lot of people from differnt countries here, but Germany have no money for all these people...and not enough jobs. So what should we do? Of course war is not the answer! The US didn't have so many wars in the past like we in europe. Sometimes it seems so the they don't know what war means for the people there.
And I believe, if the US win the war, the Iraq wouldn't accept the new head of state...you see just more trouble in the future!

I don't want to be the bad girl! I'm just 17 years old and I hate war and the political way of Bush.

(Sorry, I know my english is not he best. I hope you can understand it right.)
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Old 22-03-2003, 22:41   #31
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
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Tasiya, I agree with your concerns about the restructuring of Iraq. Funny, I always thought that US sharing that responsibility just showed that they still believe that international support is important.

However, when looking at it in a different perspective the UN always have done the groundwork for rebuilding shattered countries; the UN meaning everybody but the US. But with this situation the US cannot simply leave Iraq without the UN to look after it. After this war, Iraq can certainly become a hotspot for terrorist activities and the US cannot afford to have that happen.

France won't even discuss the possibility of funding Iraq after the war, rightfully so. The US has managed to piss everybody off (even the most laid back country in the world, Canada) with their statements of not needing the UN (an organization they built) and now they have the audacity to ask for funding. This only illustrates that US is only diplomatic when it suits their needs - you may roll your eyes at how clichйd that statement is - it surprisingly happens less often then you would believe.

I personally think the US and UK is in the right when attacking Iraq, not because I think they actually care for the well being for the Iraqi people. Fact is nobody cares, France won't attack Iraq, why would they? They built nuclear facilities for Saddam Hussien. Portions of Iraqi oil goes to France and Russia. I believe they are just as atrocious as the US and UK. France and Russia accept Iraqi goods despite funding a dictator.
So toppling a dictator and restructuring an oppressed country is good in my eyes no matter how evil the intentions are.

The problem isn't with Iraq anymore, it isn't even with how to restructure Iraq afterwards either. The problem now lies with filling in the gap the US and the UK has created with countries within the UN. The US cannot afford to go back into isolation, not after the globalized platform they have established now. Not after opening up so many trade benefits to so many places in the world. The anti-America attitude that is being acquired today does not come without justification. The US needs to change the bully image they have now with neglecting the UN and destroying diplomacy to the image they used to have when they estbalished the UN and created diplomacy.


I swear to God I'll try to keep them short next time.

Last edited by PowerPuff Grrl; 22-03-2003 at 22:54.
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Old 22-03-2003, 23:19   #32
Charles Charles is offline
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Its all well and good to say the US must attack a dictatorship with an oppressive regime, but this doesn't hold up when you look at the whole world. If that is sufficient grounds to start a war, then how may more wars will we start? Is it any wonder that North Korea is upset?

The only reason Bush is getting away with this at all is that Iraq has zero allies that will come to their aid.

You're correct about the gap between the US/UK and the rest of the UN. That must be fixed before Iraq can be rebuilt. The US cannot perform any peacekeeping duties after the war. No one would trust them. That must fall to UN forces.
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Old 22-03-2003, 23:47   #33
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
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Yeah, you're right about that.
I can name oher nations which need some intervention more than Iraq. But just because other countries need more help doesn't mean that sins of omission can be tolerated, even encouraged. Like what Bush said, Iraq is a gateway to reforming the Middle East. I think the reform doesn't end with Iraq.

I just hope he was being honest with this because it is really hard to trust their foreign policy.
Bush Sr. said that Kuwait would turn into a democratic nation after the Gulf War. I have heard recently that Kuwait is planning to become a theocracy.

On a side note, Africa really needs some attention. And not the kind of attention that has massive funding involved because the people that truly need it do not see a penny of it. I have no idea why governments keep funding actually expecting progress.
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Old 24-03-2003, 20:20   #34
KooReeT KooReeT is offline
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Has Tatu commented on the war recently?
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Old 01-04-2003, 12:08   #35
deathrider deathrider is offline
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ok i think no one will be happy to see children killed and suffered in any place in this world
i think this war hasn't carry a peace and freedom to the iraq ppl
this war is only for kill ,brother kill his brother and for what , it's only for oil fuck oil
no more suffering for iraq ppl
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