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Tatu in Podnebesnaya. Releases from 14.02.04 and 15.02.04. [aka Eps. 9 & 10]


 
 
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Old 17-02-2004, 01:41   #81
simon simon is offline
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Thank you sunny poison

Pasha idolises Jean-Claude van Damme! So he has neither looks nor brains. What does Yulia see in him?

I agree with a lot of spyretto's analysis, but I completely disagree that Ivan is talentless. I think he had some great creative ideas and his videos for YSSU and NND were the best I've ever seen. He's turning into a Shakespearian tragic hero. His fatal flaws have been greed and egotism. He drove away first Galoyan (the goose that laid the golden eggs), Kiper (the co-creator and Ivan's much-needed reality check) and now it appears Yulia and Lena.
 
Old 17-02-2004, 01:49   #82
cirrus cirrus is offline
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Quote:
I desparately need something to punch. Preferablly Shapovalov.
haha! calm down, kate. Geez, I fear for ol' Shap if you ever meet him.

Quote:
He's turning into a Shakespearian tragic hero. His fatal flaws have been greed and egotism.
Wow, good connection! what's the word, hubris? excessive pride? But we don't know Shap so we can't honestly judge him. Though he does make a good person to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~
la profundidad.
 
Old 17-02-2004, 01:54   #83
MassMedia MassMedia is offline
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were never going to see a video are we
~~~~~~~~~~~
you are what you love,
not what loves you...
 
Old 17-02-2004, 01:58   #84
denial denial is offline
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sunny poison, thank you very much for the 'late' report.
~~~~~~~~~~~
I will forget my dreams
Nothing is what it seems
I will effect you
I will protect you
From all the crazy schemes

You traded in your wings
For everything freedom brings

You never left me
You never let me
See what this feeling means
 
Old 17-02-2004, 02:10   #85
spyretto spyretto is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by simon
Thank you sunny poison

Pasha idolises Jean-Claude van Damme! So he has neither looks nor brains. What does Yulia see in him?

I agree with a lot of spyretto's analysis, but I completely disagree that Ivan is talentless. I think he had some great creative ideas and his videos for YSSU and NND were the best I've ever seen. He's turning into a Shakespearian tragic hero. His fatal flaws have been greed and egotism. He drove away first Galoyan (the goose that laid the golden eggs), Kiper (the co-creator and Ivan's much-needed reality check) and now it appears Yulia and Lena.
ok, musically talentless then. He had some good ideas but his luck run out. And I doubt the ideas were all his, he was working with all those people, it was a collective project after all. Then all of a sudden he appears as the sole creative force behind Tatu. It doesn't figure.
He was so cocky in that "30 minutes making off" video, he thought he was creating the masterpiece of the century or what?
Yulia and Lena probably didn't know him well enough or they were too ecstatic to bother. Either way, those collaborations, like Kiper, Galoyan, etc. were left behind in the race for the big dough but somehow Ivan lost track of his masterplan along the way...

King Lear? or perhaps Othello? Or maybe there's one even better ?

Last edited by spyretto; 17-02-2004 at 02:19.
 
Old 17-02-2004, 02:12   #86
Lux Lux is offline
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kate - they start to bug you? LOL just now??

to be honest i don't really believe any of this and at the same time i believe it. if they get rid of ivan, whom i don't blame nor hate because it's not his fault, the project may as well not exist. they need ivan, he put it together, he kept it going, even when things were rocky he still stayed. it's this mind warping reality crap nonsense show that annoys me. why all this nonsense? can't they just release the album already? when it's released it'll be..'oh yeah we stuck it through, ivan was behind the whole thing. ha. ha. ha."

EDIT: yeah ivan had good ideas, but it's not luck. although the collective project resulted in something amazing, it cannot be created again. i am not quick to point the finger at ivan just because he took over things, without the other writers. how the western world reacted to tatu's image is out of ivan's hands, no one has control over that. needless to say, the image itself was controversial to begin with, that is, to the rest of the world. what then? blame the rest of the world? pffft
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Complete™ forever

I never thought it would be this clear | Lux [ light-ness@hotmail.com ]
 
Old 17-02-2004, 02:25   #87
spyretto spyretto is offline
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He got most of the money Tatu made for his services, so he din't do it from the kindness of his heart. Now if he blew the money away who is to blame? And we don't know for a fact was only him who put the project together. Maybe he was more cunning to drive the others out?
About the image...well, that persistence in publicity seeking stunts as Kate said didn't make things any better. They were screaming for attention and the West got bored of that pretty soon.
 
Old 17-02-2004, 02:49   #88
Kate Kate is offline
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Lux,
Quote:
they start to bug you? LOL just now??
A long long time ago, actually. Doesn't matter, though.

Back to the topic we've been discussing for the start of Tatu... "are they or aren't they?", "will they or won't they?" and "we'll see".
 
Old 17-02-2004, 03:27   #89
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who said he did it out of the kindness of his heart?
this was a business venture.


i don't see how they were screaming for attention. they were already madly popular in their native country and wanted to venture across the globe. the west wasn't bored with their antics, they didn't buy into their image from the start. it wasn't really a debate on how good the music is[many people shunned their image], it was about how fake/real they are. the image wasn't appealing and the music got somewhat ignored. although they were pretty popular in europe for awhile due to the trend in techno/pop and dance the career life wasn't a long one. being a pop duo, it wasn't black and white - "are they? aren't they?" it was just an image, and the west as a whole didn't buy it. tatu didn't scream for attention from the beginning, i'd say they were modest in their eagerness approaching the western world. the visits made in the US especially, were not big events, in fact, they were rather cautious.

who knows exactly whether he blew the money or not?
i have not read or seen any facts that would point to that possibility. i am not quick to blame ivan in particular just because he is the only one left, just because the others left, just because the recent events all happened and he is the only one left. in the beginning, it was ivan and that one dude who wanted a duo to sing "yugoslavia" and ivan developed the idea for a duo, not lesbian duo, but just duo. the lesbian image idea came later, and i believe it's ivan because he was there when no one else was. the team of writers/producers came after he had the duo together, didnt they?
i dont see all of the "stunts" as acts for publicity. some things happened due to conflict and unprofessionalism but that's just my opinion. who is to say that every single thing that went wrong was an act to get publicity? say that is the case, whatever publicity they got didn't benefit their image. in fact, all of the "publicity" has worsened their popularity by confusing fans and instilling nothing but negative feelings. it's illogical that everything they do is calculated as some publicity stunt because some of the events didn't even get publicity, they did not benefit their popularity at all i.e. the wembley fiasco, or not singing in japan when they were supposed to.
i can't stress this anymore. the west didn't buy them right away because of the image. there's too much ambiguity to stay interested because in order to reel people in something has to be massively appealing. ambiguity does not equal mass appeal.


i'm beginning to get incoherent so i'll stop here.
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Complete™ forever

I never thought it would be this clear | Lux [ light-ness@hotmail.com ]
 
Old 17-02-2004, 03:30   #90
haku haku is offline
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Thanks for the report sunny poison


Jean-Claude Van Damme is not a great actor, but he's a great statement maker, like this one:
"I'm fascinated by air. If air was removed from the sky, birds would fall down... And the planes too... But you can't touch air... It exists and doesn't exist... It can feed men without them being even hungry... It's magic... Air is beautiful and yet you can't see it, it's soft and yet you can't touch it... Air is a little like my brain..."


Quote:
Originally posted by Lux
the lesbian image idea came later, and i believe it's ivan because he was there when no one else was.
That's why Ivan is responsible, he's the one who created the image! The whole concept of the project is based on lies and deception. Ivan just probably saw some Japanese animes and realized that having two real flesh teenage girls showing panties and making out would be a great sell, and it worked very well, beyond his wildest expectations i'm sure. The message of tolerance for same-sex couples was fake, just an unvoluntary side effect of showing two schoolgirls making out, but it was never the main goal of the project. The main goal was simply to sell a band using one of the most common fantasies: cute teenage girls kissing and groping each other.
The problem is, Ivan never planned what he would do when the girls would grow up, the girls are too old now, they don't fit in the uniforms anymore, the actresses refuse to play any longer, the fantasy and the message are dead.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ]

Last edited by haku; 17-02-2004 at 04:01.
 
Old 17-02-2004, 04:01   #91
dollparts3000 dollparts3000 is offline
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ITA

Quote:
Originally posted by Lux
sunnypoison - thank you very much.


i agree with ivan! the girls have little experience as performers, much less artists. they don't have enough charisma to go solo, how true. shaps in some deep sh*t now, how will he get himself out of this? ... the drama continues
I agree too! A lot of people say that Ivan is screwing everything up wiith his lack of professionalism and they might be right. I think however that there is no way of knowing for sure what is going on in Ivan's head. Just because he looks like a "pot smoking slacker" does not mean he is. He probably smoked pot or did drugs when he created tatu. Just because we are seeing it now does not mean that he is more of a drug addict.

Ivan is definitely not the only person responsible for tatu. He did however organize everything! He got songwriters, managers (Lena Kipper), etc. and created tatu. Creating a project like that is a big thing and requires a lot of hard work and responsibility. Sure, Ivan has probably made some mistakes. I'm not saying that they are not huge mistakes but I don't think that it is impossible to recover from those mistakes.

Anyway, maybe tatu can survive without Ivan but I don't think that they should. When the Spice Girls left their manager, that was the stupidest move! Their business plumeted and they fell apart. Tatu already colaborated with that other famous American producer when producing the English album so he might be an option. However, Ivan comes up with great ideas. This reality show is an amusing idea. He also came up with using those 'fcuk war' t-shirts.

Also, without the name tatu, I don't think tatu have much of a chance of surviving. Tatu and Taty is a brand. Take away the brand and you are left with two okay singers. If they were to drop the name, they would have to re-introduce a new name which would be risky. Could you imagine if "The Spice Girls" were called anything else? Or if Eminem just called himself, "George"? Or if Madonna said that she wanted to be referred to as Frances?
 
Old 17-02-2004, 04:17   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by haku
That's why Ivan is responsible, he's the one who created the image! The whole concept of the project is based on lies and deception. Ivan just probably saw some Japanese animes and realized that having two real flesh teenage girls showing panties and making out would be a great sell, and it worked very well, beyond his wildest expectations i'm sure. The message of tolerance for same-sex couples was fake, just an unvoluntary side effect of showing two schoolgirls making out, but it was never the main goal of the project. The main goal was simply to sell a band using one of the most common fantasies: cute teenage girls kissing and groping each other.
The problem is, Ivan never planned what he would do when the girls would grow up, the girls are too old now, they don't fit in the uniforms anymore, the actresses refuse to play any longer, the fantasy and the message are dead.
the idea is his, but marketing, publicity, and knowledge of the music industry in general? ivan was not experienced. as i've said before, it was easy at first when popularity was high, just follow the motions of giving what people want. i don't see how almost nonexistent music business experience coupled with his idea of two girls loving each other and carrying a message equals lies and deceit.
i don't agree with you in that ivan was just using that to sell. in russia, people didnt buy that, they never defended themselves as "oh we're lesbians/not lesbians" in their native country. the russians loved the music and found the image amusing.

if that is such a common fantasy, why didn't it sell in the west? it barely sold in the united states, where men are completely obsessed with girl on girl action. i'm sure its similar across the planet except no one uses it blatantly as a marketable image.
i agree with the latter portion - the girls are growing up and ivan didn't really think about the repercussions of when that would occur. the documentary goes along with that, they've got other lives that weren't expected by some and their own ideas of their future. they've shed the school girl uniforms, naivete [perhaps still a little there but they are more learned in the ways of the world], and innocence [perhaps that was more natural than anything].
in that sense, i've lost most of my train of thought and shall resort to silence and bitterness.
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Complete™ forever

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Old 17-02-2004, 04:24   #93
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Thanks for the info. Sunny!
 
Old 17-02-2004, 04:53   #94
LenochkaO LenochkaO is offline
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Re: ITA

Quote:
Originally posted by dollparts3000
Tatu already colaborated with that other famous American producer when producing the English album so he might be an option.
Isn't Trevor Horn British?

Quote:
Originally posted by sunny poison
May be this whole thing is just the way to shake Ivan and return him back to reality.
An alternative meaning of "reality show"?
~~~~~~~~~~~
You've cried enough this lifetime, my beloved polar bear

Last edited by LenochkaO; 17-02-2004 at 05:01.
 
Old 17-02-2004, 06:11   #95
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haku,
Quote:
The message of tolerance for same-sex couples was fake, just an unvoluntary side effect of showing two schoolgirls making out, but it was never the main goal of the project.
Never the less, some people still believe they are lesbians and have a message for the world and blah and blah and blah....
 
Old 17-02-2004, 06:26   #96
denial denial is offline
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The messages are genuine .. why not .. its like watching movie .. it inspires you .. what make you feel after that .. those are acting ..
~~~~~~~~~~~
I will forget my dreams
Nothing is what it seems
I will effect you
I will protect you
From all the crazy schemes

You traded in your wings
For everything freedom brings

You never left me
You never let me
See what this feeling means

Last edited by denial; 17-02-2004 at 06:37.
 
Old 17-02-2004, 06:40   #97
RowerB RowerB is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lux
they don't have enough charisma to go solo,
I think Yulia is the most charismatic thing on the planet.

Quote:
Originally posted by sunny poison
well... first of all BOTH girls want to continue their singing careers... and they don't mind doing it together. At least it looks so.
Thanks for that sunny poison, and the reports. Hopefully they can continue as tatu.
 
Old 17-02-2004, 06:52   #98
irish22 irish22 is offline
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thanks for the news sunny man i can not believe pasha like van dam he can not act and i met him and he is such a dork lol and he is a really big womanizer to
 
Old 17-02-2004, 06:54   #99
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thanks for the report sunny poison!!

well the only thing that puzzles me is that all of them seemed to agree that tatu have great potential...thats the exact opposite of everything I have been hearing up to now...I do think that they still have a chance...maybe I'm naive but I frankly don't care
~~~~~~~~~~~
"Asking the right questions will make all the doubts go away." ~ German teacher
"Having the right doubts will make all the questions go away." ~ My best(est) friend ^^
 
Old 17-02-2004, 07:15   #100
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...crying for attention : let me remind you the video shooting for Show Me Love - where is it after all? all this fuss and nothing at the end - Eurovision, and all the silly rumours of putting on a sex show. the documentary - look, we don't cry for attention just wanna disappoint our fans - the reality show - hey we're gonna record an album lets put it live on air - oh wait, it doesn't seem we're gona record it after all. Tatu wouldn't give a dime about the show and I don't blame them. Naked bridge parade anyone? Scandals on Japanese tv show. Cancelled concerts everywhere. 200 teenage girls wearing school uniforms on stage. Fights with photographers

Was all that low key? Or maybe a desperate attempt to remain in the spotlight by consensating for the deficiency -or lack - of their musical material ?

Anyway, quite interesting thoughts expressed here, variations of those things we knew from the beginning. Cause they didn't try to conceal anything.

What matters is now. Now things are pretty diri-diri-daua.

Tatu reminds me of the Soviet Union. Everything is strict and rigid at first, then perestroika comes and all hell breaks lose. And now we finally know the truth.
It's all about the money, dum dum da ra ram dum...

And it surely ain't funny...
 
 

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