Lady GaGa

[robbie]

Lady GaGa is talented. I have no doubts about that.

[sakuya]

at last. No ones arguing lady G has some talent. Def more than most todays pop artist, it just when people start worship her like Curt Cobain (which you seem like to do in your previous posts), searching hidden meaning @ place where theres no such, I for example starting to have allergic reaction to her, which is really weird considering the fact I like what shes doing.

[Argos]

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

...please, Argos feel free to step in at this point - because I'm sure after years and years of discussion on this forum you can thoroughly defend my ties to the Russian music scene.

Who's that guy calling me for assist? Never saw him on this board before!

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

...you quote perhaps the shallowest of all her lyrics and use them as a mass representation of the work she does ...

How dare you call Gaga's most sophisticated lyrics shallow. It's 'Lovegame' and the like, which makes the difference between an artist and all the other pop starlets!

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

...If we're going to start crediting artists on artistic ability based on their collaborative efforts then let's talk about GaGa with Elton John, Bruce Springsteen, Shirley Bassey, Debbie Harry......

Oh yes, this argument beats everything!

...Elton John...

Doesn't count! They have the same spectacles' designer.

...Bruce Springsteen...

I know that guy. He's the only one I've never understood a single word. Thank God, there are lyrics gathering sites!

...Shirley Bassey...

Eh whooo? Oh yes...Goldfinger. I'm impressed.

...Debbie Harry...

Ouch - Blondie! We are getting more and more into the league of the most important artists...of Dilettania!

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

NoiseVox
NoiseVox

Finally I found time to watch the whole interview. Interesting - more than 900.000 people were curious to watch the first part, but only every fifth of them watched the second part, and finally only one out of nine watched the last part. Comes close to my own estimate that only 10 percent of the Gaga fans are interested in her artistical aspects, the other 90 percent like just the scandal chick with her umtsa-umtsa-Ga-ga-hullala-ha.

Well..she looks quite barbecued on the picture. In those 40 minutes I didn't get anything answered I hoped to get. I've watched other artists' interviews less than 20 minutes with much more insight into their work. Her inspiration - Warhol, Bowie (poor guys to be mentioned here!), Diana, some hip-hopper...scanty. She made much the impression that she wanted to 'legitimate' what she does, and she wants to be acknowledged as an artist, not as a celebrity. Who from the other pop stars does not? If you have to justify your work, there is certainly something wrong.

Don't know if her efforts to be accepted as an artist - and God knows she tries hard, will finally bear fruits. Dance pop is so far from accepted artistry that she may try even wider splits, her chances are not that good. What makes her outstanding among the pop stars is that she makes the best she can in every aspect of her work, be it her singing, the choreographies or the arrangements of the music. She cares for details and is not content with usual practice in that genre. We know from tatu's third album how sloppy work can sound. In that respect she is an enrichment in the scene, and for bringing dance out of the corner of the 'perverted' right into the mainstream. If that is reason enough to see her as the yardstick of world's music is a bit beyond my comprehension though.

[convol]

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

And I'm sorry, but when I hold a discussion - it's because I believe I have something to share. Not because of an immature desire to be entertained.

It's immature to enjoy having a discussion? If so, sure, I'm immature. Have you ever considered pursuing a career as a researcher in didactics? Your main strength would be that you have a unique approach of sharing your knowledge.

Originally Posted by convol

Although if you are saying that mass media didn't play a role in Gaga achieving fame, I'd be thrilled to read your arguments.

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Done.

Quod erat demonstrandum? What arguments were you using again in favor of mass media not playing a role in Gaga achieving fame?

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Wrong. You are choosing to ignore bits of information that only discredit your own argument.

Sorry, but not intentionally so; it's been rather hectic lately, and I simply haven't had the time to reply to all your bits of information (or did you mean entropy?). Enlighten me, what did I ignore that discredits my own argument?

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

And I'm sorry, but who are you?

Someone who is immature, enjoying a discussion, obviously unprepared, discussing Gaga with a didactics expert?

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

If you would have previously read and researched what I've said you'd find that: [...]
3. GaGa: Designs her own show, directs the art and all other aspects for the show as well [...]

My assumption was that she has a production team behind her.

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Perhaps you should reference the creative agenda for her show. The list of designers is quite extensive [...]

I thought you just said that she designed her own show and directs all the aspects herself.

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

I find it hilarious that you quote perhaps the shallowest of all her lyrics and use them as a mass representation of the work she does despite not listing any others worthy of recognition as well.

I really picked the lyrics randomly. Feel free to quote lyrics that are more representative of Gaga.

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

If we're going to start crediting artists on artistic ability based on their collaborative efforts then let's talk about GaGa with Elton John, Bruce Springsteen, Shirley Bassey, Debbie Harry, countless other performance artists and visual artists as well.

No, I wasn't going into artistic ability based on collaborative efforts. I simply listed a few artists (and gave a point of Western reference for those I could) whom I thought were infinitely more talented than Gaga and whom I have listened to for these past few months.

Let's follow your line of thought anyway. Since you are the resident Gaga expert, I ask you if any of these artists that Gaga has collaborated with have made comments with regards to Gaga pushing musical boundaries? In addition, I ask you, do you think in ten years time that people will look back at Gaga and say that her music was truly groundbreaking?

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

I think you should reference the fact that Bad Romance was one of the most successful singles ever and an almost completely industrial track in composition. Industrial music in a pop song - not in America. Also, GaGa's type of dance music was not present in American pop culture at a mass that it is now.

Industrial? I have to say that this was completely unexpected. I have listened to industrial music for the past 20 years and I'm quite familiar with it (and its sidebranches) especially Throbbing Gristle, early Psychic TV, early Current 93, Laibach, NON/Boyd Rice etc. etc.

In Sweden where I come from, Eurodance, Europop, Eurodisco etc, were hugely popular in the early 90ies. Are you familiar with these genres? They weren't considered the highest quality music, but some of it was catchy and it was possible to dance to it. The Swedish group Ace of Base was extremely popular for instance. I believe "Bad Romance" and the rest of Gaga's "oeuvre" is more reminiscent of these genres than industrial (you may of course argue against it and I'm all ears). Have a listen to "Happy Nation" by Ace of Base:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMfVFAK5Qc

Please note that this track was released almost 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

It's comical to watch you make a stab at her and Warhol with a comment like "hope of attaining a semblance of credibility" when you yourself are in fact using Warhol against her for your own purpose of attaining a semblance of credibility.

My estimation of the number of people reading my posts is very modest. I really don't hope to attain anything.

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Pelageya, while an artist that you may enjoy - is definitely not someone that I would listen to. I do not enjoy her voice. And, if on the off chance that you do not believe that I know who she is - please, Argos feel free to step in at this point - because I'm sure after years and years of discussion on this forum you can thoroughly defend my ties to the Russian music scene.

To quote you: "Not being your cup of tea has nothing to do with the discussion.". Will you argue against Pelageya having an amazing voice?

Here is Pelageya singing the Diva Dance of the 5th element: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apE21p-y4A8

Pelageya singing a song from her latest album, somewhat in the style of seventies rock à la Rainbow/Deep Purple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq--rJtgadc

Here is a small snippet of Pelageya showing her vocal capabilities: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UQE5tQoRDQ

And Pelageya singing a Cossack song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO8Ka...eature=related

[AshMcAuliffe]

^ Kudos for your Industrial likes. I share these.
Also, i do agree with you regards Ace of Base, who i love also. When i first heard Alejandro i nearly died at how much it sounded the blatant spit of AoB.

[convol]

Originally Posted by AshMcAuliffe

^ Kudos for your Industrial likes. I share these.
Also, i do agree with you regards Ace of Base, who i love also. When i first heard Alejandro i nearly died at how much it sounded the blatant spit of AoB.

Ah, great to hear it! I'm particularly fond of C93s "Christ and the Pale Queens Mighty in Sorrow".

I bought Ace of Base's first album in '93, and still quite like it. A few of those melodies are very catchy (nostalgia may also play a part in why I like it). I agree about Alejandro and AoB's version of "Don't turn around". There are a few remixes of those two together on Youtube.

[Argos]

Originally Posted by convol

I thought you just said that she designed her own show and directs all the aspects herself.

Baffled eh? Of course she did everything alone, without the others. She needs the designers to applaud her for her great work - part of the fame. Get the best to praise you!

Originally Posted by convol

I really picked the lyrics randomly. Feel free to quote lyrics that are more representative of Gaga.

May I help you? Only a small excerpt...

Baby make it to me
Again and again
Again, again, again, again
Never stop again and again
Again, again, a-a-again, again
Never stop, oh

Oh-oh-oh-oh-oooh!
Oh-oh-oooh-oh-oh!
Caught in a bad romance
Oh-oh-oh-oh-oooh!
Oh-oh-oooh-oh-oh!
Caught in a bad romance
Rah-rah-ah-ah-ah!
Roma-Roma-ma-ah!
Ga-ga-ooh-la-la!
Want your bad romance
Rah-rah-ah-ah-ah!
Roma-Roma-ma-ah!
Ga-ga-ooh-la-la!
Want your bad romance

Bang bang, we're beautiful and dirty rich
(dirty dirty rich dirty dirty rich beautiful)
Bang bang, we're beautiful and dirty rich
(beautiful and dirty dirty rich rich bang bang)

Boys boys boys
We like boys in cars
Boys boys boys
Buy us drinks in bars
Boys boys boys
With Hairspray and denim
Boys boys boys
We love them!
We love them!
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ,oh ,oh ,oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ,oh ,oh ,oh

Changing skies
Cha-cha-cha-changing
Changing skies
Cha-cha-cha-changing
Changing skies
Changing skies
Changing skies
Cha-cha-cha-changing
Ooh ooh ohh
oh oh oh
Ooh ooh ohh
oh oh oh
oooh oh oh oooh oh oh
ooh ooh ooh ooh

Ra pa pam pam (x4)
Light me up with me on top lets falalalalalalala (x2)
The only place you wanna be is underneath my christmas tree (x2)
Light me up with me on top lets falalalalalalala (x2)
Ho ho ho under the mistletoe (Ra pa pam pam)
yes everybody knows (Ra pa pam pam)
we will take off our clothes (Ra pa pam pam)
yes if you want us to we will
you oh oh a christmas
my christmas tree is delicious (x2)

Originally Posted by convol

I ask you, do you think in ten years time that people will look back at Gaga and say that her music was truly groundbreaking?

Yes.

Originally Posted by convol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMfVFAK5Qc

Now you've ruined my afternoon! Well, not so much. I read the comments and there was someone who honestly proposed Gaga to sue Ace Of Base for copying her music!

Originally Posted by convol

Here is Pelageya singing the Diva Dance of the 5th element: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apE21p-y4A8

Whenever I hear such sounds I run for the oil can to grease the hinges of my door. Otherwise Pelageya is great.

[Arnaudfrenchy]

Lady Gaga is good when she is doing these acoustic session with piano.
Otherwise, it's pure show-business, well oiled, sung half playback and not enough authentic for me.
I will not say that her shows are bad, i am sure they are great. Just not my taste.
Lady Gaga isn't specifically a musician for me.
She uses her musician abilities and skill but she doesn't use them to the highest.
But maybe one day i would try just a Gaga show to have an idea.

[dradeel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy5JwYOlgvY

[Argos]

Originally Posted by dradeel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy5JwYOlgvY

Slowly but instinctively he gets the hang of it! Lovit!

[spyretto]

She's a smart lady in the way she brings all those elements of past musical genres into a nice fusion of electronica pop and I like her videos but she's not breaking new ground musically. This is the way things go with new music these days, they either rehash old ideas through a modern perspective or are merely selling albums to female teenagers, because those are the only ones who care about music these days.
Lady Gaga manages to do both succesfully...another group that is doing that from a different perspective is Muse, they also rehash old ideas and genres, shaping them through their own mold.

I think innovative music stopped with Tatu, that was the last trully original thing that came from music

[Talyubittu]

Originally Posted by spyretto

She's a smart lady in the way she brings all those elements of past musical genres into a nice fusion of electronica pop and I like her videos but she's not breaking new ground musically. This is the way things go with new music these days, they either rehash old ideas through a modern perspective or are merely selling albums to female teenagers, because those are the only ones who care about music these days.
Lady Gaga manages to do both succesfully...another group that is doing that from a different perspective is Muse, they also rehash old ideas and genres, shaping them through their own mold.

I'm not sure where your facts about teenage girls come from, but it's incorrect. And I'd hate to bring up a discussion about old ideas being rehashed through a modern perspective - but that is the foundation of pop art.

I think innovative music stopped with Tatu, that was the last trully original thing that came from music

Innovative music stopped with t.A.T.u.? - Who are you? The only thing innovative about them is their never ending catastrophes they eventually bring about. Nothing about t.A.T.u. was original or creative. Not at the hands of anyone directly involved with the group anyways.

[little_polar_bear]

Wow, just watched a few short clips from the VMAs, does GaGa have a new face? Sorry, I know I am not the first to ask this, but her nose if defo newish. And did only dykes hand over the awards to her? Oh my... how thoughtful of MTV...

[Argos]

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

I'm not sure where your facts about teenage girls come from, but it's incorrect.

Well, consumer statistics for instance. And yes, statistics always lie!

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

And I'd hate to bring up a discussion about old ideas being rehashed through a modern perspective - but that is the foundation of pop art.

Good that you don't! Aaand - that's not necessarily bad. Some old artefacts wrapped up in new clothes are really an enrichment in any type of culture (but not everything, of course).

With an ardent
Rah-rah-ah-ah-ah!
Roma-Roma-ma-ah!
Ga-ga-ooh-la-la!

[Talyubittu]

Originally Posted by little_polar_bear

Wow, just watched a few short clips from the VMAs, does GaGa have a new face? Sorry, I know I am not the first to ask this, but her nose if defo newish. And did only dykes hand over the awards to her? Oh my... how thoughtful of MTV...

No. She has a tan. Her nose is the same nose she's had her entire life. And, no. She took home eight and three were televised. How ignorant of you.

With an ardent
Rah-rah-ah-ah-ah!
Roma-Roma-ma-ah!
Ga-ga-ooh-la-la!

I understand that this hook isn't your cup of tea, but it's an amazing pop hook. You've seen her tour schedule among other things, you know that she works hard at what she does even if you dislike some of the material.

[little_polar_bear]

^ Again, I am just being a bit ironic here. I said I've seen bits of it (on YouTube where you can hardly find anything these days anyway) and those bits happened to be Ellen and Jane Lynch giving her the moon men. Apparently, shows like those get extremely boring if you have just one person receiving everything and no Kanye West interrupting your thank-you-speeches.
And yes, you might know by now that I am being very ignorant when it comes to GaGa . She can do whatever she wants, I haven't been impressed much so far.
But good that you have known her since she was born.

[Talyubittu]

Originally Posted by little_polar_bear

^ Again, I am just being a bit ironic here. I said I've seen bits of it (on YouTube where you can hardly find anything these days anyway) and those bits happened to be Ellen and Jane Lynch giving her the moon men. Apparently, shows like those get extremely boring if you have just one person receiving everything and no Kanye West interrupting your thank-you-speeches.
And yes, you might know by now that I am being very ignorant when it comes to GaGa . She can do whatever she wants, I haven't been impressed much so far.
But good that you have known her since she was born.

I've noticed. I just find it funny that you dislike her, yet enjoy t.A.T.u. and continue to post on their forum.

[little_polar_bear]

Offtop:
Tim, that's quite an assumption you make here. I'm not really enjoying t.A.T.u., have hardly enjoyed anything in the last three and a half years from them. But I like tatysite and don't want it to die completely and of course, I want to know what the girls are up to now after the years they have been such a big part of my life. I guess, I am a rather "loyal" person...
I can't quite see the point though why you compare GaGa and t.A.T.u.. It's a question of taste, isn't it? I said I am not overly impressed by what GaGa does - I didn't say it's worthless. I like some of her songs and videos, but that doesn't mean to me she is the new light some of her fans want everybody to believe in. Might become irritating someday: the argument that she is oh-so-innovative. Of course and without any doubt is she the biggest thing out there right now and good for her fans who love and support her. Nothing wrong with that. But there will always be people bitching about someone who is famous, so let's be happy instead that I am also posting in this thread because she is everything that MTV can be grateful for right now.

[MalchikGeiBrand]

I thought GaGa was adorable at the VMAs. Born this wayyyy~~~~

Anyway, I always think she looks different every few months, but that's only because of her hair and make-up. When she stopped wearing those straight-cut bangs, I hardly recognized her at first.

Her "new" hairstyle though, makes her look totally identical to how she looked in her younger years, only with blond hair. I think it's a cute look for her.

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

I'm not sure where your facts about teenage girls come from, but it's incorrect. And I'd hate to bring up a discussion about old ideas being rehashed through a modern perspective - but that is the foundation of pop art.

The record companies themselves. Those demographics are the source of the lion's share of sales from CD's/itunes these days.
In the 1950's they were the ones who were buying records, so it's coming full circle.
Look at the current top 40's in the UK/USA, do you see any other style of music there than the current hybreed of hip-hop/r'n'b/electronica pop? Not any more.
The Americans were snubbing electronic music for so many years and they're now embracing it fully. Who do you think this is, mom and dad?
Yeah, that is the foundation of pop, but hey, 20-30 years ago they were experimenting, plagiarising unknown classical pieces, what they're doing now is rehashing each other's ideas who in turn were ripped off from ideas from 15-20 years ago. Our ears are well trained but it's not going anywhere.

Innovative music stopped with t.A.T.u.? - Who are you? The only thing innovative about them is their never ending catastrophes they eventually bring about. Nothing about t.A.T.u. was original or creative. Not at the hands of anyone directly involved with the group anyways.

I was joking on that one, of course
But common, what's so special about Gaga, other than being a very succesful, sonically pleasing marketing tool.