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19-12-2003, 23:49
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#121 | |
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Bitchka
 Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,990
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Quote:
 ... but.. still .... they are 'labeled' and thrown into the pile.... even though i am sure some of them like to be called that ... that was exactly my point - I am not a big fan of this categorozation and I see it as 'discrimination' .. that's all 
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oh... o! |
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19-12-2003, 23:52
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#122 | |
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tATu - Fan
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,276
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Quote:
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20-12-2003, 00:29
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#123 | |
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ROCK FOR LIGHT
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Philadelphia USA
Age: 41
Posts: 613
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Quote:
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as sick as i am, i would never be you |
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20-12-2003, 00:55
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#124 | ||
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My Waking Hour
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: in oblivion
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,486
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Do you also happen to know how old his lovers were ?
 Quote:
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Last edited by spyretto; 20-12-2003 at 01:01. |
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20-12-2003, 01:44
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#125 |
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Harrumph.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 忍者村
Posts: 3,272
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coolasfcuk, all of those "labelled" bois carry their tag proudly and have never complained. Besides, you've totally broken off the topic.
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20-12-2003, 02:20
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#126 | ||
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you'll need love
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Taastrup, Denmark
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,298
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Quote:
 I should know 
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Don't waste your time on me you're already the voice inside my head |
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20-12-2003, 02:38
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#127 |
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Echoes among the Stars
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: USA
Age: 41
Posts: 770
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spyretto, haha, I do
darje, I think coolasfcuk is saying that not everybody likes to be "labelled" in this way ... some people do, and that's great, but not everybody does. I don't either by the way  Anyway, I'm still a fan ... I've known for a long time that they definitely had boyfriends and from the the beginning I thought it was pretty sure that they had. And this was really nothing to do with why I liked them in the first place I don't think we should "take all the true fans away" though, although I understand how some people can be hurt by some of the scenes in the documentary and others frustrated by them.
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20-12-2003, 02:50
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#128 | |
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Участник
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Paris
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,104
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Do you know how Sappho died, if my memory is good?......
Reallity...i don't have time to check so may me I'm wrong but i think it 's right... Sappho killed herself.... How?.....in jumping into the sea of the top of a of a cliff .. And why?...because she was in love with a BOY who did not love her....Ah!Ah! So Sappho wrote very beautiful and SOFT, delicate poems....and Lesbos gave birth to the word Lesbian....but there is a difference between the atmosphere of "Lesbos" and "Lesbian"... In Lesbos , Sappho has a kind of school of poetry...she taught poetry to young ladies....so it was enough SOFT... NOW, "Lesbian" has a connotation of claim for a statute in the Society, it is almost a POLITICAL COMBAT... This is why I don't recognize myself in this word, because it is too often accompanied by a too AGGRESSIVE behavior with regard to the men that does not agree to me ... So some of the "Real Lesbians" who claim to be Respected and are against a "racism", do exactly the contrary in their ACTS by saying very Horrible things about Men...so , it's , by my point of view, a kind of Racism.... I like people who have a relation betweeen their WORDS and their ACTS.... And don't tell me it's faulse...i went just one time in a Gay Girls Club.....it was enough for me...i can't understand such agressivity.... So ,as Russkayatatu said, this is absolutely on the topic.... When you hear by the mouth of "Hard or Real Lesbians" that a woman who accepts to live in a society driven (historictly ) by Men isn't a TRUE WOMAN....i say :  ....It's sounds as discrimination..: or you're a Warrior Girl or you're nt a Woman...For me , to love another girl is JUST and ONLY a question of Heart and Mind.... For other , it's MAinly a POLITICAL COMBAT....so we are all different.. |
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Last edited by nath; 20-12-2003 at 03:15. |
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20-12-2003, 04:25
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#129 | |
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Sad Little Monkey
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736
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Sunwalk : Right! She killed herself cause of a boy. Might even have been her husband (not sure). She was the first one who wrote about the pleasures of saphic love and vrote passionate verses to females. So she was a pioneer. She wrote the beauty of the female body in aestetical but also sexual way. That doesn't however say anything about her sexual orientation at all. Maybe she was straight maybe she was bi, lesbian whatever. Doesn't matter. But the fact was she promoted love between women as something worth mentioning in her poetry. We have a good analogy with tatu here don't we? Maybe we can proclaim them as Sapho's of the 21st century. Of course unlike Sapho they were driven by money and fame, but their motives here aren't importaint... the important things are the consequences.
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freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ] Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. |
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20-12-2003, 04:56
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#130 | ||
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dirty white boy
Join Date: Dec 2002
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 594
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Quote:
a network of lies which exploited a sensitive taboo [and which subsequently dominoed toward the negative reaction from many fans], but it IS important that the situation ended up exposing what's now believed to have been a complete fraud? I'd think that both the motives AND the consequences are important in the situation concerning t.A.T.u. - and also with Sappho. To say that the reasons, thoughts, and emotion behind her poetry were ultimately undermined by the cause of her death would be an ill-founded comment - to say that t.A.T.u.'s consequences are now more important than the initial motives carries the same set of logic and reasoning. Sappho's character as a lesbian writer has to be considered to understand why she'd kill herself over being in love with a male, and t.A.T.u.'s reasons for continuing a career under false motives are needed to see why the consequences which have followed are applicable to their situation. A consequence exists as the result of an action. An action is driven by motive. Even the supposed lack of motive has a reason behind it, whether defined or not [even if that reason is simply to feign a lack of plausible cause]. The outcome is affected by the initial motive(s) which led to its coming about - both motives and consequences should be taken into account for a more comprehensive understanding of why an effect actually exists. [This is actually the same theme which I'd been trying to stress previously. Too many people focus on consequences and end up ignoring what created an outcome. What's the point in giving up on the past when a consequence arrives? Pointlessly trite and illogical - Sappho's writing is what has immortalized her in literature, not her untimely death.] |
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20-12-2003, 05:00
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#131 | ||
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Участник
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Paris
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,104
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Quote:
...And you knows?...May be Sappho wanted Fame too!... "the important things are the consequences." and the artistical creation.. Kisses Freddie... EDIT: Cniaj...to speak about her death was just to show she might be a more complexed character than the "simple traditionnal vision" we've kept about her :a woman closed on her island just with women....she wasn't an Amazon fighting... Of course she loved men. *The consequence could be the fact that some young girls , may be, wouldn't have find the courage to assume as homosexual so quickly..and really, Tatu has helped people to consider that Homosexuality wasn't a such taboo... *The consequence could be too, even if it's very sad, (and i repeat myself : I don't condamn the sorrow some of us could have , I absolutely understand it...) an initiation about what could be the world, the life....I mean you don't have to see the things just with ONE VISION but from several points...don't just believe in what is shown to you...always try to search why things exist and what are the motivations which are behind... It's the same thing to "judge" somebody (we all judge..): don't just see what he/she says or does....but always try to search WHY he/she acts like that.... It's just with these two elements that you can understand how a person "works".... A lot of persons say the opposite of what they really think just to protect themselves...if you just stop of what she/he says..you're wrong about the person... So we have to learn about each situation we live...may be this "sad" part of the Tatu's adventure will help some of us in the futur , in seeing the things differently or more completly... That doesn't mean , we have to become cynical.... That one of the difficult thing of the life: try to find the good "йquilibre", "weight?"..;"scale?"(don't know the name) between the part of Reality and the part of Dream.... *If you stay just in the part of Dream (you see the world just as you want it would be: you become crazy, psychological problems..) *If you see the world, just with a critical eye without dream : you become cynical.... 
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Last edited by nath; 20-12-2003 at 05:34. |
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20-12-2003, 05:21
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#132 | ||
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dirty white boy
Join Date: Dec 2002
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 594
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Quote:
meant to disprove that ONLY her death mattered. Causes are just as relative as effects - that'd been my position. |
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20-12-2003, 18:56
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#133 | ||
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pie crust
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792
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Quote:
I have no idea who Sappho is, and I've never heard of an island called "Lesbos" so.. I'm gonna sit here quiet.
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Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ] |
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20-12-2003, 20:03
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#134 |
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the unattainable kish
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Buried Deep In Yourke Hunt
Age: 43
Posts: 2,527
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wtf....what's going on in here LOL
*tries to catch up* |
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Ze origional p.I.m.p karens quote of the day: 'If i were gay it'd be so much easier' forkMeRaw | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ urmamawantsme@hotmail.com ] |
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20-12-2003, 20:13
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#135 | ||
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you'll need love
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Taastrup, Denmark
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,298
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Quote:
thought we lost you for a while there
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Don't waste your time on me you're already the voice inside my head |
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20-12-2003, 22:41
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#136 | |
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pie crust
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792
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What proof?
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Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ] |
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20-12-2003, 22:47
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#137 | ||
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you'll need love
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Taastrup, Denmark
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,298
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Quote:
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~~~~~~~~~~~
Don't waste your time on me you're already the voice inside my head |
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20-12-2003, 22:48
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#138 | ||
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iMod
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Normandie
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,839
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Quote:
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Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ] Last edited by haku; 20-12-2003 at 22:53. |
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20-12-2003, 22:50
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#139 | ||
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you'll need love
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Taastrup, Denmark
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,298
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Quote:
 *late celebration of 1000 and 1024 post* |
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Don't waste your time on me you're already the voice inside my head |
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20-12-2003, 22:54
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#140 | |||
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pie crust
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792
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Quote:
Quote:
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Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ] |
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