Hurricane Katrina

[simon]

Examples:

You get back what you give to the world. And seeing as all America has ever given is pollution and death to other countries, maybe they should experience it first hand for once...

even though there was warning of a hurricane coming they just sat on their butts and didn't move

The fact that they didn't do shit when they got a warning about the hurricane is pretty stupid. I know I'd be running the fuck out of there as soon as possible. Still, natural catastrophes are always horrible, but we can only blame ourselves when we know of the risks.

[QueenBee]

simon, I don't see any name-calling in those post (one of those is mine.)...

[simon]

'they just sat on their butts'? 'pretty stupid'? You don't think that's name calling?

[QueenBee]

simon, oh in that case I misunderstood... I thought name calling in the English language was directly saying.. for example "Idiots", or something like that.

[simon]

It would have been more precise if I'd written 'derogatory characterisations' instead, but I think it still counts as name calling - it was calling the victims lazy and stupid.

[Rachel]

Some of the people are still refusing to move. You call that intelligent?

[Kappa]

Originally Posted by simon

It would have been more precise if I'd written 'derogatory characterisations' instead, but I think it still counts as name calling - it was calling the victims lazy and stupid.

There's people driving their own rescuers away with guns. There's people that are dying of hunger, but refuse to leave their houses. There's looters all over the place, and YOU are offended because there's people calling them out on their obvious mistakes and faults? Victimacy doesn't automatically exclude you from stupidity.

Nor we are calling all victims "stupid" or "lazy" as you hallucinate we are, nor all victims refused to leave the city. There's people that died trying to get to safety.

[shizzo]

Anne Rice comments on the disaster

Celine Dion gets emotional

[simon]

Originally Posted by Ice_Cream

Some of the people are still refusing to move. You call that intelligent?

Originally Posted by darje

There's people driving their own rescuers away with guns. There's people that are dying of hunger, but refuse to leave their houses. There's looters all over the place, and YOU are offended because there's people calling them out on their obvious mistakes and faults? Victimacy doesn't automatically exclude you from stupidity.

Nor we are calling all victims "stupid" or "lazy" as you hallucinate we are, nor all victims refused to leave the city. There's people that died trying to get to safety.

The examples I quoted were of people calling those who failed to get out of the path of the hurricane stupid or lazy. Now those remarks are being defended on the grounds that some of the victims are stupid. Of course some of the hurricane victims are stupid, but that doesn't make it correct to label them all lazy or stupid. It's not very intelligent to condemn all the victims because a small minority had been looting and a handful of people had shot at the rescuers. I had even said in a post of my own that the ones left behind in New Orleans who hadn't tried to go to the shelters had been ill-informed or stupid - but that's quite different from condemning all of them as lazy or stupid. It had already been explained that people left behind had not had the means to leave, which was met with this thoughtful response:

They live in a state they KNOW is below sea level and even though there was warning of a hurricane coming they just sat on their butts and didn't move. Yeah, they're poor, I know. But have they never heard of walking? There was a lot of advance warning for the hurricane, if they had actually started moving as soon as the warnings started to come maybe they would be in a safe place right now. But no, what they seem to be doing is going to the nearest Walmarts to find guns so they can go around terrorising the people who are actually trying to HELP THEM!

[Kappa]

That's your own imagination considering we're condeming ALL and EVERY victim lazy or stupid. I wish people would stop assuming we're out to have the heads of the hurricane victims just because we're not american ourselves.

[simon]

The fact that they didn't do shit when they got a warning about the hurricane is pretty stupid. I know I'd be running the fuck out of there as soon as possible. Still, natural catastrophes are always horrible, but we can only blame ourselves when we know of the risks.

They live in a state they KNOW is below sea level and even though there was warning of a hurricane coming they just sat on their butts and didn't move. Yeah, they're poor, I know. But have they never heard of walking? There was a lot of advance warning for the hurricane, if they had actually started moving as soon as the warnings started to come maybe they would be in a safe place right now.

Those statements are pretty sweeping, darje. I don't see any provisos that they were only condemning some of the people who were stuck in the path of the hurricane.

Originally Posted by darje

I wish people would stop assuming we're out to have the heads of the hurricane victims just because we're not american ourselves.

I certainly don't assume that everyone who's not American is anti-American. I'm not American either.

[Rachel]

Simon, are you some secret American?

[simon]

Originally Posted by Ice_Cream

Simon, are you some secret American?

No, I'm British! It isn't necessary to be American not to hate them.

[Kappa]

Oh, so if I condemn you to be pedant and constantly misunderstanding, am I condemning every british born member of the forum to be the same? Seriously, climb off your cloud of righteousness; everyone will have their opinion and there's nothing more awful than someone trying to singlehandedly convince everyone that they're wrong.

[haku]

From what i've seen, many countries are sending help to the US (which i do think is ridiculous because sending help to the US is like donating money to Bill Gates), but from i've seen, US mainstream media are not mentioning this fact at all (probably because they think it's shameful to receive foreign help) and US authorities are not using or even refusing this help, which shows that foreign help is unnecessary and unwanted by American people themselves.

Some people have compared this hurricane to the tsunami in south-east Asia, personally i think the tsunami was much worse, much more people died and it happened in countries with much less financial resources than the US, however this hurricane will cost much more money than the tsunami.
Like an American trader said when asked if the tsunami would have an impact on Wall Street "The tsunami won't have a serious financial impact, many people died and many infrastructures were destroyed but none of those were insured so it won't cost anything to insurance companies, the impact on the market will be minimal, it could even be positive since the reconstruction will open up many business opportunities for our companies".

Anyway, the climate is changing and natural catastrophes are going to increase all over the planet, we will all be hit by something at some point.

[Kappa]

There is a mexican convoy of 50 eight wheelers in it's way to the US, with food, water, clothes, and resources for portable home construction, and our biggest war boat, the Papaloapan, will be arriving at the site of disaster next week with just as many medical aid as our country could give up.

I honestly would find it disgraceful if a nation's pride makes it unable to accept help.

[volkotina]

Originally Posted by haku

From what i've seen, many countries are sending help to the US (which i do think is ridiculous because sending help to the US is like donating money to Bill Gates), but from i've seen, US mainstream media are not mentioning this fact at all (probably because they think it's shameful to receive foreign help) and US authorities are not using or even refusing this help, which shows that foreign help is unnecessary and unwanted by American people themselves.

As far as the reporting of offers of help, those actually have been widely reported by the American news media outlets in both print and television. Bitty2002 previously mentioned the report about Sri Lanka's incredibly moving offer. Along with that report, we both have heard about the numerous countries who have offered their condolences, compassion, and aid. The US has requested help from NATO (ETA: link) and is responding to offers from foreign countries. As mentioned before, a lot of the aid that is being offered is being reviewed and will be accepted or declined based on specific needs. Of course, with bureaucracy one can never be sure what is truly going on and what will come of everything.

As far as I am concerned, I am grateful for the outpouring of compassion exhibited by foreign countries and their citizens. I also know a lot of other Americans are as well.

Originally Posted by darje

I honestly would find it disgraceful if a nation's pride makes it unable to accept help.

And that is going to be an issue I am sure. For every person who finds that the US is acting in a disgraceful manner by not accepting aid, another person will find it equally disgraceful if a country as rich as we are does accept. It truly is a no win situation.

ETA: Celtic Jobber and marina, both Bitty and I hope you and your loved ones are well. Take care.

[simon]

I agree it's ridiculous to send aid to the United States. I think it's being offered not because countries think they really need it, but for political reasons, to show gratitude from countries that have recieved American aid, or to make a point, particularly in the case of Cuba's offer of aid. The aid offers haven't been ignored by the American media - a quick Google News search showed that it has been reported by CBS, CNN, USA Today, the International Herald Tribune, the Los Angeles Times, the Chicago Sun-Times, the Boston Globe, the Miami Herald, the Seattle Post Intelligencer and the San Jose Mercury News among others.

Originally Posted by darje

Oh, so if I condemn you to be pedant and constantly misunderstanding, am I condemning every british born member of the forum to be the same? Seriously, climb off your cloud of righteousness; everyone will have their opinion and there's nothing more awful than someone trying to singlehandedly convince everyone that they're wrong.

You seem to be saying that I'm the only one who thought that what was written about the hurricane victims was unfair. What about the others who complained? Or do they not count because they are Americans? You condemn me as righteous; surely that's better than being judgemental and callous?

[haku]

Originally Posted by simon

I agree it's ridiculous to send aid to the United States. I think it's being offered not because countries think they really need it, but for political reasons

Most probably, i heard today that the US congress is allocating $10.5 billion to the hurricane relief and that $40 billion will be added later, so that's a total of $50.5 billion that the US is dedicating to that catastrophe... When after that you hear that an extremely poor country like Angola is giving $400,000 to the US, it sounds rather obscene.

[Kappa]

Originally Posted by simon

You seem to be saying that I'm the only one who thought that what was written about the hurricane victims was unfair. What about the others who complained? Or do they not count because they are Americans? You condemn me as righteous; surely that's better than being judgemental and callous?

I condemn you as righteous because you're mounting on an attitude that helps no one, although you believe you do. You seem to believe that we were taking each and every victim of the hurricane and tagging them as stupid and lazy, which, FOR THE LAST EFFING TIME, is not the case. People are suffering, and most of us can't do much more than donate to the relief effort, which have been disclosed as useless anyway because the States won't take help. What I cannot stand is to see the effort of those who can be at the disaster site, lending a hand and risking their own lives, WASTED by those who are truly stupid and lazy: people who have been threatening rescuers out of their houses with guns, and refusing to be relocated. Victimacy status does not automatically make you exempt of stupidity. I understand that grieving can be a cause of madness, but it in no way gives you the right to point a gun at someone you're just trying to help.