Hurricane Katrina

[Kappa]

This hollier than thou attitude from EVERYONE in here is pissing me off. People, Copernicus called, and he said you're not the center of the universe. How about you stop giving each other a reason to be angry at the other, and focus on what's important to you? If you're not interested in helping for the victims, then don't. If you are, then by all means give with all your heart, be it money, effort, shelter, etc. The attitude everyone's getting from this thread is absolutely not helping anyone, regardless on whatever country you live in.

[madeldoe]

Originally Posted by Bitty2002

You realize 80%+ people down there are black and most blacks are democrats, thus NOT Bush supporters.

actually its flipped flopped. most african americans are christian/catholic, and although they may not be exclusively republican, they agreed with many of Bush's policies [which was based on his religion] which is what won the election. The election was not tampered. Bush won it clean and fair both times.

This hollier than thou attitude from EVERYONE in here is pissing me off.

i agree. no one is better than anyone else. but i do believe that once you take away someone elses humanity, you take away your own.


ANother problem that I'd like to bring up is the person who was put in charge of FEMA, Michael Brown. ANyone wanna take a stab at what his previous job was? His job was to ensure that horse-show judges followed the rules and to investigate allegations against those suspected of cheating. No seriously thats what he did. Guess who appointed him? Joe Allbaugh, Bush's 2000 campaign manager who also happens to be an old friend of Brown's . Funny how it all sorta works out huh?




btw. thanks for the vid qb! kanye west is freakin hilarious!

[Bitty2002]

I am not saying I am better than. Certain people are basically saying the US is worse than. Why doesn't any get this? Because you all agree? Well, fine, think the US sucks, I do too. But my POINT, which maybe one day will be understood, is that just because the US has its faults, bad policy, crappy president, or because the people in NO didn't walk 100 miles to safety, does not mean that those people are somehow deserving of what happened to them or that the suffering they are now experiencing is warranted and to be ignored.

And you all say, I wasn't saying they were deserving, what were you saying then? When you say, they should have gotten out...what follows that reasoning? Since they didn't get out, what? They are to blame for their own misery? Then what? What are you saying? Because they are to blame, I feel no obligation to care or help?

I find that callous reasoning, but think what you will. However, to think that the US maybe should have tragedy befall it so that it can experience the pain other countries feel, that is horrible philosophy, I am sorry. Feel free to disagree.

And I also hope people realizing that I do not think the US is the center of the universe and that a tragedy here is somehow worse. I am not comparing tragedies. I hurt for the people in China who were hit by a typhoon the other day. I hurt for the people in Mexico. There is no comparison, pain is pain. I am not expecting people to show sympathy or compassion for US more so than any compassion they would show for any suffering.

actually its flipped flopped. most african americans are christian/catholic, and although they may not be exclusively republican, they agreed with many of Bush's policies [which was based on his religion] which is what won the election. The election was not tampered. Bush won it clean and fair both times.

And you are positive it wasn't tampered how? I am just curious how you know this? I have ample reason to think it was. How do you know it wasn't? You state it as fact.

WASHINGTON -- March 31 -- Officially, President Bush won November's election by 2.5%, yet exit polls showed Kerry winning by 3%[1]. According to a report to be released today by a group of university statisticians, the odds of a discrepancy this large between the national exit poll and election results happening by accident are close to 1 in a million.
In other words, by random chance alone, it could not have happened. But it did.
Two alternatives remain. Either something was wrong with the exit polling, or something was wrong with the vote count.
Exit polls have been used to verify the integrity of elections in the Ukraine, in Latin America, in Germany, and elsewhere. Yet in November 2004, the U.S. exit poll discrepancy was much more than normal exit poll error (and similar to that of the invalid Ukraine election.

I'm not the only one who finds the 2004 election, and 2000 for that matter, suspect: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud.html

As for black people supporting Bush, Bush only got %16 of the Black vote. Bush got 51% of the American vote. Wow, a huge landslide. that means half of the US didn't support Bush. That isn't even counting the countless numbers who didn't vote, because what's the fucking point when both options suck ass? You know, we have two people to choose from. Two people. I hated both my choices. What are you supposed to do? Even if the majority of black people voted for Bush, what does that matter? Because of their affiliation, because they are conservative and Bush was the only conservative representative, these people are somehow less than? Because they support him, they maybe need to feel some of the pain their support of Bush has brought upon other nations? Is that really what people think? Cause if not, what exactly are people trying to say here?

I don't think people are seeing the issue. No one is arguing that the US has corruption. No one is arguing that the war is a good thing. No one is arguing that Bush sucks. No one is arguing that FEMA should not have been given more money. No one is arguing that NO should have been better prepared for this.

The point is that is wasn't. Why blame the people hurt by this ineptness? Or hell, to think that this same inept government is capable of handling it, thus you don’t need to show your support? And let me reiterate that I am not talking money. I am not even saying people should show support. But do not show hatred or insensitivity in the face of such tragedy. People's lives were lost. I do not want to read, while wondering if my loved one is alive, how he/she brought it upon him/herself, and how maybe we need to feel this pain. That is heartless. Even if you think you are fully justified, have a heart and shut your mouth. Wait for a better time than in the wake of death and sadness. Is civility too much to ask for?

[madeldoe]

Originally Posted by Bitty2002

And you are positive it wasn't tampered how? I am just curious how you know this? I have ample reason to think it was. How do you know it wasn't? You state it as fact.

no one can really be positive about anything. but lemme just make it clear [if i havent already lol] that i abhor bush and his administration. this is my theory. George Bush won because of his religion. And because of his stance on Religion, he was able to bring more Republicans to the polls than Democrats. Plain and Simple. I mean i could go more in depth, but this isnt the thread for it.

The point is that is wasn't. Why blame the people hurt by this ineptness? Or hell, think that this same inept government is capable of handling it, thus you don’t need to show your support?

exactly.

[Bitty2002]

Originally Posted by madeldoe

no one can really be positive about anything. but lemme just make it clear [if i havent already lol] that i abhor bush and his administration. this is my theory. George Bush won because of his religion. And because of his stance on Religion, he was able to bring more Republicans to the polls than Democrats. Plain and Simple. I mean i could go more in depth, but this isnt the thread for it.

Sorry for my previous tone. I thought you were on the offensive, my mistake and misreading.

I personally think there is room to believe it was tampered. Tampered completely? No. I mean people still voted for him. As said, supposedly Kerry was winning by 3% according to exit polls. Then Bush won by 2.5%. I wonder if votes wer swapped. That would still mean over 40% of people probably voted for Bush and I, like you, am positive those people were highly influenced by his reactionary conservativism. But do I think he legally and rightfully won the presidency? No

[marina]

Originally Posted by Bitty2002

I hurt for the people in China who were hit by a typhoon the other day. I

Thanks , Bitty2000 .
Typhoon did not pound Shanghai after all , instead heading westwards to the neighbouring province. We been pre-warned about winds (well....i didn't go away ) but the typhoon changed track.

By the time it hit us , typhoon had weakened to a tropical storm, drenching the area . We plunged into darkness when power lines went down , had lots of uprooted trees, fallen billboards and water...water ...water.
Fortunately , we were able to come back to normal life in 2 -3 days . Even the car survived thou not everyone was that lucky -- there were plenty flood damaged cars around.

[QueenBee]

I don't think anyone is actually saying that the people deserved this, just that the USA sucks.

[spyretto]

I don't see how you can bring politics into this when countries like Cuba and Venezuela are sending help too. This has nothing to do with politics, it's a humanitarian thing.

Originally Posted by QueenBee

I don't think anyone is actually saying that the people deserved this, just that the USA sucks.

Well, to be fair to them they used to be one of the most loved counties before

[Rachel]

I'm not even gonna reply to your post Bitty coz we are getting no where.

I am not saying people deserve to die. I am trying to point out that recently there seems to have been a lot of "natural" disasters, surely climate change as a result from global warming is somewhere to blame? And as the environment isn't one of Bush's priorities then that is maybe why some of this is happening?

I don't understand the man - he claims to be religious and uses religion as a tool againt gay marriage, yet it seems his biggest priority in life is money - I thought money was the root of all evil? He picks and chooses his beliefs to suit him.

The UK has now sent 500,000 ration packs to the US, I don't see why America can't sort it out? Look at this - http://www.aneki.com/richest.html - surely America can afford it?!

Anyway, that is my last post on the matter.

[spyretto]

It's not the greenhouse effect per se, the climate changes were going to happen anyway - scientists knew about them years ago - it's just that the greenhouse effect can escalate them further.
The ozon layer is now as big as the size of Europe.

[ypsidan04]

Someone forwarded this to me. Right on the mark.

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.



Yours,



Michael Moore

Also

[Uhaku]

Recap of the Tsunamis
UN : This is emergency!
Bush : Mm’kay, 35 bucks, there you go. Now, let’s go back to Middle East!
There are more people to kill and oil to dig up!
UN : Stingy!
US government : Our apology! The president forgot to add seven digits of zero after 35!
Bush : Are you guys nuts? Those third world countries don’t cost anything!
They don’t even own anything from the start! But, hell, you guys are the ones to make
decisions because I don’t know how. Bleh!


2 weeks before Katrina
Bush : Huh, mm’kay. Let me enjoy my vacation, will ya? I work so damn hard
to send all of the US troops to Iraq!
New Orleans : Pain is temporary. Pride is forever. We are not leaving. (We
can’t afford to leave. We don’t have a car!)


2 days before Katrina
Mayor : Ok. Let’s move people out. It’s a bit late, but that’s okay. It can’t be
that bad because God has always blessed America.


2 days AFTER Katrina
Bush : Katrina is a disaster all right! It’s even worse than the Tsunamis because
my vacation is cut short!
Dickhead vice president : Chill out, Gorge. Let those people starve. We don’t
need their votes anymore anyway. (I’m still on my vacation).
Bush : There’s more, Dickie! We lost a city! All the polluted water will be
dumped into the Gulf of Mexico, polluting it for the next ten years! Katrina had just
destroyed one third of the sources of oil the US uses!
Dickhead :AND after we spent all of the soldiers’ lives in Iraq, we don’t
even get their oil! That’s why I need longer vacation!
Poor US citizens : OUCH.

--------------------------------------

Reality? The US has helped the rest of the world in many occasions, but don’t
be so naïve to think that their motive in going to war with Iraq is to help those poor
people from the ex-dictator. CNN is owned by the Republican. Brainwash.
Brainwash. Image. Image. Oil. Oil. The US government got a big slap in its face now
that they can’t even control the oil in Iraq, while they let their own people suffer. The
world is so sad, indeed.

In case you haven't heard, please visit http://www.democracynow.org/
It is the source of news that lives on by donation. It isn't owned by a corp.

[Celtic Jobber]

Hey everyone...

I was in South Mississippi with my family during Hurricane Katrina. The first floor of our house was flooded, most of my clothes, and almost everthing my familiy owns was destroyed. We were trapped upstairs for two days with flood water downstairs. I really thought I was going to die.

And to make matters worse, I also have a kidney infection. Our power was out for a week (its been really hot) which means no air conditioning which made it even more miserable. But its good to finally let some of my friends know I am atleast still alive...

This was by far the worst week of my life. And the scary thing is, there's a new storm starting where Katrina formed...

[Kappa]

Heya, Celtic Jobber... I'm sorry to hear you went through so much misery. I'm praying for you to get better of your kidney infection soon, and for the health and welfare of your family. I'm glad to know you're alive.

[Celtic Jobber]

Thanks darje, it means alot.

[YLuelniaa]

well my parents and I are going to be doing are part. The house that i grew up in..we no longer live in...my parents moved to the country...So we decided we are going to invite a few families to live in the house...

Its the least we can do ...its not much but it something...to give them a chance to start over...

[simon]

Originally Posted by Celtic Jobber

Hey everyone...

I was in South Mississippi with my family during Hurricane Katrina. The first floor of our house was flooded, most of my clothes, and almost everthing my familiy owns was destroyed. We were trapped upstairs for two days with flood water downstairs. I really thought I was going to die.

And to make matters worse, I also have a kidney infection. Our power was out for a week (its been really hot) which means no air conditioning which made it even more miserable. But its good to finally let some of my friends know I am atleast still alive...

This was by far the worst week of my life. And the scary thing is, there's a new storm starting where Katrina formed...

So we have Katrina victim among our number. I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. I wonder if people are now going to call Celtic Jobber the names they called the other Katrina victims...

[madeldoe]

Originally Posted by Celtic Jobber

Hey everyone...

I was in South Mississippi with my family during Hurricane Katrina. The first floor of our house was flooded, most of my clothes, and almost everthing my familiy owns was destroyed. We were trapped upstairs for two days with flood water downstairs. I really thought I was going to die.

And to make matters worse, I also have a kidney infection. Our power was out for a week (its been really hot) which means no air conditioning which made it even more miserable. But its good to finally let some of my friends know I am atleast still alive...

This was by far the worst week of my life. And the scary thing is, there's a new storm starting where Katrina formed...

Im happy to hear your okay Celtic! Please keep up us updated on your situation and if there is anything that I can do, I'll be glad to help!

Originally Posted by YLuelniaa

well my parents and I are going to be doing are part. The house that i grew up in..we no longer live in...my parents moved to the country...So we decided we are going to invite a few families to live in the house...

Its the least we can do ...its not much but it something...to give them a chance to start over...

I salute you. I wish I could be doing something thats hands on. Sending money isn't even close to enough..

[Kappa]

Originally Posted by simon

So we have Katrina victim among our number. I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. I wonder if people are now going to call Celtic Jobber the names they called the other Katrina victims...

*rolls eyes* Thank you for kicking that dead horse. What names, might I ask? I don't remember anyone calling the victims of this disaster anything.

[QueenBee]

Originally Posted by Ice_Cream

I am trying to point out that recently there seems to have been a lot of "natural" disasters, surely climate change as a result from global warming is somewhere to blame? And as the environment isn't one of Bush's priorities then that is maybe why some of this is happening?

Yeah (I know this has prolly nothing to do with it, but here's a little comment on pollution), Bush didn't want anything to do with the Kyoto Protocol (is that spelling correct?) and if I remember correctly, USA is the most responsible.

Celtic Jobber, oh wow I'm so sorry to hear about that! I'm glad you got through it though.. Seems like the *worst* is over I wish you all the best.