The rights of animals (discussion)

[QueenBee]

I mean the human is a cross between an aninal and a higher being, isn't it?

The what, now?

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

The what, now?

lol, seriously have you ever thought what your purpose in life in? I mean if even plants and animals do have a purpose - to add to the food chain - what is the human's purpose? nothing? It's obvious that we're - or our spirits are- banished in this planet aren't we? Do you think that the idea of a ultimate being that EVERY single civilization has embraced in the course of history is something that they simply came up with, or brainwashed with?

To me it's obvious that Man did not originate on this planet. This is the only logical explanation .
Don;t let yourselves down by equating them to animals

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by spyretto

Dolphins are obviously inferior to humans aren't they? Otherwise they would be able to achieve things of equal importance as the humans have achieved.

spyretto, it all depends on what your idea of "equal importance" is. I'm sure dolphins don't know everything we do, so why would we know everything about what they know & do?

Originally Posted by spyretto

That's how the idea of the god as an ultimate being originates as well.

Well, seeing as I would happily use the bible as toilet paper I don't think that really holds up your argument (to me, anyway)

[Winkie]

Okay Spy, first of all: Be serious, or shut up.

lol, seriously have you ever thought what your purpose in life in?

This is not being serious. So if you can't be serious or at least try to be, shut up.

There is no such thing as a God. If you believe human beings are so powerful, then were is that God to control our power? Cuz everytime we kill eachother in a war, I don't see some God come down from heaven to stop us. So there are a few options
1) God is non-existent
2) God is a sadistic asshole who likes us to be in pain

I'll go for option 1.

Offtop:
Rach, I have a few bibles, feel free to use them. I want to get rid of them anyway. Catholic School, so had to buy them -_-'

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by Rachel

spyretto, it all depends on what your idea of "equal importance" is. I'm sure dolphins don't know everything we do, so why would we know everything about what they know & do?

Well, seeing as I would happily use the bible as toilet paper I don't think that really holds up your argument (to me, anyway)

So you believe that the dolphins have built cities underwater, or got some kind of civilization going on ?

I'm not talking about the Bible here, I'm talking about the idea of a spirit amanating from the earthly body and going "somewhere" after the physical death. The Bible may be a lot of crap, but it's very selfish to suggest that in a universe that extends ad infinitumi there's no life elsewhere. It's also not very logical.

[Winkie]

Actually Spy, the only thing I believe is that you are just a little boy who can't have a serious discussion.
Importance is not about building cities, or about having weapons, or about those kind of things.
The first time you realise that, I might concider you as "important". Right now, I'd rather go and see some dolphins, cuz I think they have more brains than you.

[Kyro]

Originally Posted by spyretto

So you believe that the dolphins have built cities underwater, or got some kind of civilization going on ?

You believe that being able to build cities and establish civilizations would make them important? Those are things that are important to humans, not to other animals. To judge all creatures by our standards is an ignorant thing to do and only serves to make us feel superior.

[Winkie]

Spy: I did NOT say there was no life somewhere else. I just said I do NOT believe in God.
Basically, if you DO believe in the bible, you have to say there is no life out there. Because WE (human beings) are a mirrored image of God, as the Bible puts it, and the Bible does not say that God created a second Earth.
If you DON'T believe in the Bible, it's easy to believe Darwin, who says that we evolved from monkeys. So, if we did evolve from monkeys, eventually we evolved from one-cell-creatures, and those things have been found on other planets, so that is a way to think of life outerspace.

So basically: You're screwed. If you want to act mature, know what you're talking about.

[QueenBee]

lol, seriously have you ever thought what your purpose in life in?

Does there *have* to be a purpose outside of living and dying? You seem to imply that there is some sort of higher power out there. I don't believe there is.

So you believe that the dolphins have built cities underwater, or got some kind of civilization going on?

Just because they haven't, doesn't mean that they are dumb, does it? How can you say intelligence is based on how many cities you can build? Humans were smart, or maybe dumb enough to do so. I think we just put ourselves in a big mess

[spyretto]

Originally Posted by Winkie

Spy: I did NOT say there was no life somewhere else. I just said I do NOT believe in God.
Basically, if you DO believe in the bible, you have to say there is no life out there. Because WE (human beings) are a mirrored image of God, as the Bible puts it, and the Bible does not say that God created a second Earth.
If you DON'T believe in the Bible, it's easy to believe Darwin, who says that we evolved from monkeys. So, if we did evolve from monkeys, eventually we evolved from one-cell-creatures, and those things have been found on other planets, so that is a way to think of life outerspace.

I believe in neither to be quite honest with you. I don't believe we have evolved from monkeys cause if we evolved from them there wouldn't be monkeys around wouldn't it? That's quite obvious, unless you can give an explanation as to why one form of species only evolved and others wouldn't. If so, why didn't the dolhpins evolve in a similar way? We had this discussion before in the forum and the conclusion is that the Darwinist theory can simply offer no explanation other than that it is some kind of "fluke". And as the condition of life on the planet is governed by universal laws, you can't just assume that one form of life evolved in such a way because there were special conditions they had to adapt to. Humans are anatomically close to being defenceless creatures - food prey, as others - yet they're not. Their have cognition not only to defend themselves with but conquer the planet. This is not something you can simply "evolve" into.

I don't believe in the bible stories either, because it's as simple as you have put it: they don't accept the existence of other forms of life out there, and also because their whole belief system is based on morality, in do's and donts - something which is highly subjective. But as there is probably a little truth in Darwinism - it might not be adequate to explain human evolution but does explain a lot about how animals might have evolved - that's why you see so many different variations of animal species, they adapt to the environment they live in order to survive - I also believe that there is a little truth in religion as well, I mean the notion of the spirit exists in all belief-systems, and so does the notion of superior beings, who may have come in contact with earth. ( well, in religion it's God, of course, who is "extraterrestrial". )
Science accepts it as well: while religion provides us moral teachings by which a person's spirit will be "saved" after the earthly life is ceased, scientists are simply trying to build a vessel that will enable us to make contact with the gods that exist out there.

Originally Posted by QueenBee

Does there *have* to be a purpose outside of living and dying? You seem to imply that there is some sort of higher power out there. I don't believe there is.


Just because they haven't, doesn't mean that they are dumb, does it? How can you say intelligence is based on how many cities you can build? Humans were smart, or maybe dumb enough to do so. I think we just put ourselves in a big mess

I'm not saying that our lives need to necessarily serve some purpose because we're superior beings. I'm talking about what is a common occurency on earth: there is purpose in nature to behold in every single living organism out there towards the benefit of the continuation of life on this planet. Every single one except MAN. Man is the only species that not only serves no purpose at all but it's actually a counter force acting against it. We destroy rather than repair, we're totally at odds with nature and the continuation of life on the planet.
So isn't it obvious to you that the Man's purpose may lie somewhere "else"??
Nature would simply not allow to create a Frankenstein monster like Man that would eventually destroy it, would it?

[Kyro]

Originally Posted by spyretto

Nature would simply not allow to create a Frankenstein monster like Man that would eventually destory itself, would it?

Why not? At some point, by chance, we evolved a certain way which allowed us to go against nature. Our self destruction would be nature's way of restoring balance.

[spyretto]

I wasn't talking about Man's destruction but the planet's destruction. The planet has no ways of rejuvenating itself once Man destroys it, it will become another dead planet. Man has crossed the line where nature could simply impose its laws for its own benefit. Man's "purpose" is alien to life itself, so I can't see how this is "nornal" in an earth system that is striving towards preservation.

[Rachel]

Great news I hoped this would happen.

The quote "If they were, they would know that rabbit culling is a part of country life..." is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard. I live pretty much in the country but you don't see me shooting rabbits.

***

And another thing, I just saw about this on my local news. Sick bastard. Nothing more to be said.

[Mary-sheccid]

Yes Rachel, its truth.

we just follow the stereotypes..

[Rachel]

Mary-sheccid, what do you mean?

[Mary-sheccid]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Is that in general life or in this game?

If you mean real life, that is not the case. People who say they carry guns to "protect" themselves usually carry guns because someone else could be carrying a gun...it's an endless & stupid cycle.

ohh, sorry.

i was talking about this...

[the unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Great news I hoped this would happen.

"But the couple were horrified when anti-hunting extremists telephoned them within days of their son's funeral and implied their son deserved to die." that's not respectful !!
I'm sorry but in this thread we try to say that a life is a life
I disagree with these kind of phone calls, I mean if I were this guy parents I would be desperate.
these anti-hunting extremists seem to forget that it's hard to lose someone you love !!
I'm shocked !!

btw, the conclusion is right "The League Against Cruel Sports has described the telephone calls as "completely unacceptable''."

Originally Posted by Rachel

I just saw about this on my local news

I'm sure he used to be a beloyed husband eeeewww *ironic*
it's disgusting

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by the unforgiven

that's not respectful !!

Neither is shooting something that has done nothing to you.

Originally Posted by the unforgiven

btw, the conclusion is right "The League Against Cruel Sports has described the telephone calls as "completely unacceptable''."

I know for a fact they don't really think that.

[Mary-sheccid]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Neither is shooting something that has done nothing to you.

Yes Rachel, is truth too, he just was doing that for fun... kill isn´t fun! not for me!

[the unforgiven]

Rachel I never say that shooting rabbits is respectful!!
so next time I'll read in newspaper that someone in my town is dead I'll call his/her family to say "Hi, I just read that one of your relative died ... it's awesome"
WTF? I can't stand that !!
holy crap, I forgot something : their son (rabbit killer eeeww) just died few days ago, they need to receive calls like that !! really they need it and I'm sure they're happy and eager for more phone calls

mad world ... oops it's normal !! Sorry, when someone deserves to die we don't have to respect his/her family
btw, who can judge if somebody deserves to die? I'm not sure we are (I mean human in general)