Gay High School

[Mossopp]

Originally posted by queenbee
Mossopp, I can understand that. Just like racists attack mosques, homophobics might attack gay schools. I don't know if it has ever happened but it could.

I know for a fact that this is what would happen.
Homophobes target gay clubs and bars and even pride parades - why wouldn't they attack an all-gay school?! We'd be like sitting ducks for them!

[Kappa]

GAH!

*I give up*.

[Lux]

i don't give up.
this is repeating history. does anyone see that? segregation of blacks repressed them [they went hand in hand really] and it took much political and civil unrest to unify the standard and equalize everything. equality is an ideal, an impossible medium by which we can never reach, however we can come close on a political level.

in a world, where by now, there is still some prejudice but only by the very nature of humans in general, people should not be segregated. in a gay highschool, where gay bi and transgendered kids will be protected, i ask this, what are they being protected from? from other kids bullying them because they are gay? come on. kids are kids. they bully each other for many reasons, some as common as the kind of clothes they wear and the kind of grades they get. the bigger picture is: orientation, and another issue, because it is not a choice. no one chooses to be gay or straight. its biological/emotional. putting gay/transgendered kids in a school provides safety for them temporarily but this safety net is but a temporary euphoria, maybe. they are amongst people like them and surrounded by educators who understand. it's "safe" with minimal possibility of threats.

within the school is one side, what about the flip? they can't be protected from other kids. like i said, kids bully each other no matter what. also, putting gays together emphasizes the fact that they ARE gays. again, repeating history. grouping similar race/orientations puts more pressure to repress than to learn about and learn from. and since they are gay, being with different people is a logical way of mutual learning. [this having already been said by many] although that comes with sticks and stones, learning has always be a difficult process.

putting kids together in a school, protects them yes, but from non straight forces. but from each other? i highly doubt. and the world after this "gay" school? as in college? where the majority amount of people aren't gay anyway. then off to the real world, where, oh yes, 90% of ppl are straight. what then? gay communities? gay cities? gay countries? it can go on...i'm very tired..

my highschool along with most, was not gay oriented. i was figuring things out and afraid to talk about it...then college came along and i found others as i am, BENT, and it was much easier. we live in a primarily straight world and to segregate children in efforts to protect them seems backwards in efforts to integrate the masses, create more diversity and result in much openness.




my 4 cents

Lux.

[karxwp]

Lux, your four cents value a thousand dollars you think as me...it's like oookay kids are gonna be protected but what's going to happen when they leave their school? the will see the real world no longer under the rose colored glasses...and we know the world is cruel and giving a gay hig school is just a temporal safety....the solution to this is to mix people to make straights understand that gays are the same as them and that's not gonna happen if they are like in a special school....

[Kappa]

I give up because I am tired of trying to stand for my point and people shooting my opinion down in flames. I feel VERY irritated because what I have said has seemingly been dismissed as segregation.

Well, you know what?! I have not suffered that f*cking segregation you all talk about, but as a gay kid who spent the probably worst years of her motherfrigging life in junior high, abuse, prodding, bad grades, I would have given EVERYTHING to be protected in that way. It is NOT a way of segregating gay kids: schools, straight or gay, are supposed to prepare teenagers for the next stage. What, do you guys think they'll go out of school made a bunch of wussies?Aw dear lord, that's such a ridiculous notion. If they have a chance to graduate with good grades, there will be a good chance too that he knows what goes around him, and that those years in which he was able to study in tranquility were a honestly good way of preparing for an adult cruel world.

Gay teenagers have it hard, being in a gay school or not, because whatever their sexuality might be, to be a teenager sucks. But in a gay school, they would probably also have the benefit of being able to pride themselves upon what they are and not have to hide about it. Because, surprise surprise, this girl can feel proud of being a cheerleader, this boy may feel proud of being the best in his club: but the gay boy can't be proud of being himself or having his boyfriend pick him up from school because he might be insulted/get beaten/be killed/be stripped of his pride.

I'm giving up because hell. I'm just a gay teenager.

[karxwp]

Well excuse us for exteriorizing our opinions...forgive me for being a happy teenager that had no beatings/bulling/insultings.... heeey wait a minute I had insults, in primary and some in secondary and some in high school...but nothing to be worried becuase those insults were said by jerks... and because of my mighty power of denial....

[Kappa]

Who said it was you? You were never insulted because of your sexuality, Karla, don't come up with that. I don't want to profundize in the theme... but anyway.

I said I give up. You're free to talk about how a gay school is such a bad idea. Who cares anymore.

[karxwp]

well you don't know everything about me so don't say what happened or what did not...although I don't have a banner in my forehead that says "look at me I'm bisexual" I was insulted, mostly in primary... you must know that private school kids can be mean but I don't wanna share old and burried traumas..

In secondary and high school there were jokes to tease, but that evil teasing... the one to see if you fall...but I never put them any atention...because 1) denial (and I was until 17-18 but we all know what we are subconsciously) 2) kids are jerks.

And why do you get pissed? you may think its a good idea a gay school but also many people disagree...this is a discussion, to share points of views not a battle...

[Kappa]

I'm just sick of trying to make my point. This boy and that girl, both of them gay and assisting to a good "normal" school: do they have to be killed? Stripped off their pride? Do they have to be martyrs to a cause that will take a century or hopefully a bit less to start working? I think this is a good idea while queer people with more politic power work for their own to receive rights and to be legally protected: that's why it's a good thing on short term.

But once again, I repeat that I give up... it's worthless to continue discussing this.

[karxwp]

you defend your POV and I defend mine that's all, but you want us to agree with you in everything... but hello! this is a discussion if we all agreed it would be pointless to have a forum to discuss and share ideas.

To have a gay school for me is extreme, what are gay, lesbian, bisexual and trangendered people fighting for?

Not for tolerance but for acceptance (or at least I wanna think that) to be treated normal because we are not freaks we are not unnatural things... but we won't get that acceptance if we insist in pointing out our differences, what do you think some US schools have Straight-Gay alliance groups? because they want to promote the idea that we are the same it doesn't matter if you are X person or Y person.

For me a Gay High school is an easy way from this struggle is like exiling myself, to be protected, but we do not need to change the point of view of gay teachers but the people outside the school, the homophobes and biased people that think we are "sinful, perverts, sick people".

A good idea in short term? define short 5 years? 10 years? Rome wasn't made in one day...bias and close minded people can't be changed so fast...it's a long run, take for example the black people how much time they have struggled (in the us) and still you don't see a black president...

maybe I'm rambling (quite understandable being 3:00 am) but at least freddie agrees with me and thanks for helping me in the brainstorming and put all the ideas together

Quoting Freddie:
"Isn't having a gay high school just an escape from all the strugles gay have put up with over the centuries? It's like trivializing all that gay people went trough in time"

[Ningyo]

I'm not sure about what to say. More exactly, not sure of how to explain my negative vote...

So, a school for gay teens? Maybe it's great for those who've been bullied, beaten, raped and so on and so forth... But attending a school with other teenagers of similar romantic interests doesn't exclude the possibility of suffering the same kind of abuse. Bullies and abuses come in all ages, colours, sizes, backgrounds, nationalities and sexualities; don't they?

Darje has a point when she talks about a safer environment and students worrying about school stuff instead of watching their backs; it's valid and it's true. Teenage years are hard per se, problems are always big and depressions are of the worst kind; I remember all that.

Anyway, this gay school strikes me more like a political move rather than a real willingness to solve violence, segregation, intolerance and such. *shrugs* Perhaps I'm being too paranoid and untrusting again...

There's also another aspect to consider. Let's suppose everything's peachy at school. Going there won't make students a target for outsiders? Like, when in the neighbourhood people get to know where this kid studies, can we be sure they won't attack him/her in some way? Or segregate? Or harass? All because of a school? *shakes head*

So, let's think that neighbours say/do nothing. World's full of aggressive, crazy, bigoted and/or biased people; eventually, violence will reach these gay kids, be it for their sexual orientation or not.

According to me, having this gay school achieves so little when it comes to prevention of crimes and violence; neither it leads society into accepting homosexuals. And as someone mentioned before, if these teens get a better education, there'll be straight ones wanting to attend this school... And we'll be back at stage one, just inverted: gay kids bashing straight ones.

Oh well, those are just my ideas.

- SK.

[Just for the record: I'm not straight.]

[rylettia]

It is NOT a way of segregating gay kids: schools, straight or gay, are supposed to prepare teenagers for the next stage. What, do you guys think they'll go out of school made a bunch of wussies?Aw dear lord, that's such a ridiculous notion. If they have a chance to graduate with good grades, there will be a good chance too that he knows what goes around him, and that those years in which he was able to study in tranquility were a honestly good way of preparing for an adult cruel world.

I agree. Is a kid going to be prepared for the world having being abused and taught to be ashamed or hide his/her sexuality or going to a school where there is some shelter? People tend to bond when they can empathize with each other, which unfortunately requires they have suffered the same things. If the school were to attract negative attention, at least there'd be understanding peers. Though that is cold, cruel comfort. In the end, a teenager who has confidence from some feeling of acceptance (call it naive) is more valuable to society than a punch-drunk, withdrawn kid who is already damn sick of the "real" world and its cruelty.

A group of gay/bi kids wanting to go to a school where they can be proud of their sexuality and not feel like a sexual minority is backwards? I guess I just don't want to believe that some teenagers wanting their corner of the world is selfish...

[parrish122]

Ok, everybody take a deep breath and try to calm down. All right?

There's two different ways of arguing this topic.

Emotional and mental.

If you've been through beatings at school, like Darje, me, and lord alone knows how many others...it's hard to look at this subject with a cool head.

If you *haven't* been through this, it's difficult to really know the underlying emotions.

If you are looking at it from the emotional point of view, you are most likely going to want the short term solution. You want the pain to stop *now*.

And if you aren't looking at it emotionally, you are more likely going to pick what you feel is the long term solution.

There is nothing wrong with either choice. *Both* sides want the best. *Both* sides want gay teens to feel safe. We all want the same thing, we only disagree on how that can best be done.

Maybe we can all try to remember that, before this thread blows up and out of control, eh?

Parrish

[QueenBee]

It COULD work out. People who would attend gay schools know they are gay (duh) and have probably been through problems like that -beatings, teasing, all that (if they are out of the closet). So basically, they already know what real life is like and they can feel safe for a couple of years and get themselves a good education!

Young kids, for example 1st grade wouldn't know how cruel people can be if they have never been through it... Sure, they can hear it here and there but you can't know exactly if you haven't been through it yourself (or at least thats the impression I get). So they wouldnt be prepared.... but c'mon, how many first graders know that they are gay? Sorry if there is anyone here who fond out that they were gay in first grade or before, but most kids find out about themselves later in puberty.

So basically, a temporary solution, and sure, that's fine. When school is done I don't think it will be the same. Adults don't usually tease others and beat them like in school. They're more mature, of course, and gay people have a chance.

The thing that worries me though is what homophobics will do. People will know which schools are gay or not and so homophobics will attack them, and that safe enviorment can turn into something horrible.

And seriously I wouldn't want anyone to be killed in school... It happens to gay people already but think of how it will be when there is a whole school packed with "disgusting perverts"

Uh.

[ell]

As a gay teen I would love to go to this high school I mean at first it seems like a dream come true no discrimination, others in your situation to talk to and the possibility off meeting someone and falling in love would be a thousand times easier with more selection then in a normal high school but I still think it isn't a good idea.

Sure It would be fun to go to but I really don't think the situations so bad in the US that we need a school that segregates us and untimitly brings the LGBT community back a few steps in the search for acceptance. I live in Massachussetts our state touches New York and the atmosphare is not that bad here...My school has an openly gay theatre teacher and he is greatly respected sure their are those that dislike him and think he's gross but they are the minority. There's an openly gay guy that brings his boyfriend to school dances and dosn't recive any sh*t for it. Sure theirs homophobia (espesilly among those who imitate rappers) gay and faggot are commenly used as derogitary terms..one time someone thought I was massageing my friend's foot and was like "ewww". I know that in some schools in MA the atmosphares even better someone from my school said that at her old school it was "practically cooler to be bi then straight."

Another thought, do ststistics that say hate crimes against homosexals are up really reflect more hate for homosexuals, maybe not. Statistics can be misleading you can't just take in to account the numbers you have to take into account things that could effect these statistics such as an increase in the amout off people that are out and proud. Yes the amout off crimes has gone up but the amout off murders has gone down. According to a FBI report in the year 2001 only one person was murdered because of sexual oriantaion bias and one person was raped. In 1998 four people were murdered.

In the south blacks would have never gained acceptance if they hadn't fought for thier rights. After the brown vs. board off education ruling they continued excersising thier right to go back to the all white schools even when they were beaten brutaly for it. Blacks took the front seats on buses and were lynched(killed) for it but continued taking this stand becuse if they didn't we would never have gained the racially accepting socity we have today in america.

I am not saying its not still huge problem its just that segregation is not the awnser...maybe temporarily it would be in some countrys (such as Mexico darje) but I can't imagin someone whose suposed to be as politically corect as a teacher giving all F's to a student for being gay in northern USA were this school is located.

[Kappa]

ell, that is because political correctness is a northamerican concept: such thing as to be politically correct is a nonexistant thing here.

[Khartoun2004]

Ok new thought.

This gay school in New York represents progress. Even if some of you don't think it's a godd idea, it's still progress which makes it on some levels a good thing. Also the timing of this school couldn't be more perfect. Think about the rest of the progress that's going on in this country. The supreme court just passed that resolution that we can't be arrested for engaging in consenting sexual acts and that its our private lives, blah blah blah. Then there's the marriage lawsuit in Massachusetts, which we're still waiting for the decision on. All of these events are great and wonderful. They are all making the dream of a tolarent climate towards the LGBT community. That is our ultimate goal.

However there are also forces in the uS that are trying to ruin and destroy our advances and triumphants. Mainly the conservative camp with the president as head jack-ass. Despite all of the LGBT communities efforts a small step like a gay high school could easily be taken away and our movement set back 10 years. The mere fact that this school is publicly funded is an amazing feat concidering the fact that NY is controlled by Republicans.

So my question now is what would be a better solution? What other options are there?