Learning Russian with SP

[la aurora]

prostrel, I understand what U mean when say U don't want to pronaunce 'е' like 'и' in 'кажется'. Sometimes I myself look at the word and it seems to me that I want to pronaunce it like it's written. I do. Then again. And one more time. And as a result I always get what it should be like. It's 'и' there, I'm afraid Try to understand, U don't need to make it clear 'и'. But u can't leave it clear 'е' also. It's something between. And if U pronaunce it fast enough and with the right stress it turnes to 'и' no matter if U want it or not I tried to say 'e' but it just doesn't work. It seems I say 'e' but I hear 'и' clear enough. It works only if I pronaunce it very slow. But no russian would.
agan'k'i - that's the way to pronaunce this word. and Lena does it right. may be just not clear enough but it's always so with singing.

sasha, soft sign can't be in transcription as it doesn't symbolize any sound.

I didn't comment on the material U should know from our lessons, only things U weren't supposed to know. But check the whole thing again. U have enough time before the rest of the students posts theirs. I don't say U made many mistakes. U didn't. But even for ones who was right, it won't harm, right? Watch out ur soft signs ( ' ) and all this a/o and e/и thing. It would be also good to mark the stresses as u'll need the when do a record.
And wait with making records of the 2nd exercise, U'll better do when have the 100% correct text in front of ur eyes. U'll have it in some days, I promise.

[la aurora]

Oh, yeah. I'm gonna add some information to give the work to ur brains again. First of all the stressed vocal is the clearest in the word. U can also make it a bit longer then any other vocal (as we don't have this long/short thing in russian, it won't change the sense but will point the stressed vocal better). Russians often do. All other vocals loose their cleareness with the destance from the stressed one.
One more thing. In combinations 'ого' and 'его', if they are the last letters of the word, 'г' becomes unvoiced. Don't ask me why. It's just so. :P It happens even with the word 'его' (his/him). Although these three letters are the first and actually only letters of this word, they are the last ones as well. So, 'г' turnes to 'в'. Now a question fo ya: what do U think this words sounds like? It's the material of previous lessons but I didn't explain the concrete situation with the way this first vocal should sound. Try to think. Assistents and slavics who has the same thing in ur native language plz stay silent.

russkayatatu, heh... cool was right. Godd russian U have. With just a slight accent but even it disappears often And, join us at PD thread, plz! We still have some free lines left, don't we?

Nice writing coolie, I understand what U mean in Bulgarian... hehe... But I can't say that having russian variant didn't help any bit

P.S. LOL! Denial, I see something familar in ur signature...

[denial]

Originally posted by sunny poison
P.S. LOL! Denial, I see something familar in ur signature... [/b]

Желаю счастлвой семейной жизни!

[russkayatatu]

coolasfcuk .... kakvo moga da kazha ... e, predi vsichko, blagodarya - ti si mnogo mila I ti govorish dobre, znaesh li: po-beche ot vsichkite studenti, koito znam v universitetut tuk (including some from places like Poland) ... if what I wrote makes sense

Thank you for the comments everyone - sunny poison, yeah I know I have a slight accent I can hear it sometimes...well, Slavic sounds are hard for us poor native English speakers

[coolasfcuk]

coolasfcuk .... kakvo moga da kazha ... e, predi vsichko, blagodarya - ti si mnogo mila I ti govorish dobre, znaesh li: po-beche ot vsichkite studenti, koito znam v universitetut tuk

wow wow wooooooooooow guys and girls...wait it is mainly girls studying in this class-at least actively, I think when I finally open that Bulgarian thread - russkaya is going to be my assistant

only one minot mistake !!! poveche is one word,and with v, but I see how you would get confused from po-.... = better than and nai-....= the best everything else is exactly right.....I am just speechless he heeeeeeee

sorry, I know this is the russian class.....more russian from me on the weekend

[vesica]

Кажицца акажицца прощи н’и знаком’ицца
Кто ис нас аткажицца вз’ат’ и успакоицца
Д’эвaчк'и каг д’эвaчк'и, а патом лунат’ик’и
Нaм’ира и стр'элaчк'и, шaкaлатк’и, фант’ик’и

Gak! emboldening is a lot of work!
I would guess that ‘him’ is pronounced Ivo? Yevo? or maybe yivo? it’s a question of which rules override which other ones, I suppose.

also re: и and b1 my mistake. I thought they formed a yi & i pair…. Should have read the first lesson again.So there is no letter, strictly speaking, for yi (?)

Edit: the same mistake

[la aurora]

So there is no letter, strictly speaking, for yi (?)

There's no letter but there's a sound. "Йи" should be read this way (but the combination is really rare) and right, "e" also can symbolize this sound if it's the first letter of the word or goes right after another vocal or one of the signs (ъ/ь) and is unstressed. That's the case with 'его'. 'Yivo' is the right way to pronaunce it

Gak! emboldening is a lot of work!

Hahaha... say so!
I sent U a PM with correction of the mistakes U made But I'll be to give U 'A' for the exercise anyway

[vesica]

haha what a silly mistake. I'd like to use the smash my head with a hammer smiley but can't find it.
sunny poison, I PMed you. this thread is really fun, apart from emboldening!

[russkayatatu]

Originally posted by coolasfcuk
wow wow wooooooooooow guys and girls...wait it is mainly girls studying in this class-at least actively, I think when I finally open that Bulgarian thread - russkaya is going to be my assistant

Heeeee - once again, you must be kidding me - I'm glad you think so, but I think you're crazy: my Bulgarian is terrible, plus it took me about 10 minutes to come up with the "ot vsichkite studenti koito znam v universitetut tuk" part and try to see if it was OK Thanks for correcting it though - yeah, haha, that is exactly what I was confused with, especially because in Russian I wanted to say something like "gorazdo luchse" or "na mnogo lucshe" so I didn't know if just saying poveche was enough or even what I wanted to say - so, merci

[coolasfcuk]

ahhh - I have to admit, I must be a bad student 'cause I didnt understand where we are supposed to be putting the ' within the words.... so I just listened to the song, and put them where I thought they should be... hope I didnt get it too wrong...
Russian is waaaaaaaay harder than Bulgarian ours is like a simplified version

well, here is mine:

Каж*иц'ца акаж*иц'ца прош'е н'и знаком*иц'ца
кто ис наc аткаж*иц'ца взиат' и успакоиц'ца
девач'ки каг девач'ки, а патом лунат'ик'и
намира и стрелач'ки, шакалат'ки, фан'ти'ки

* where I put this * - I wasnt sure if the ' should be there - once I think it should once I think it shouldnt .....ahhhhh, I cant make up my mind

[elf]

Wow, a lot of great things have happened in this thread since I last visited it.

Originally posted by coolasfcuk
Also....russkaya sent me her files,so I uploaded them

Russkaya Homework #1
Russkaya Sing

That was awesome!! russkayatatu, you really do sound russian and the singing was amazing!

and I made a little comment on her files

Cool's Comment Russ
Cool's Comment BG

Wow, so cute You vocie is MEGA sweet I don't even dare to make any corrections here

Каж*иц'ца акаж*иц'ца прош'е н'и знаком*иц'ца
кто ис наc аткаж*иц'ца взиат' и успакоиц'ца
девач'ки как девач'ки, а патом лунат'ик'и
намира и стрелач'ки, шакалат'ки, фан'ти'ки

This was almost perfect! But let me correct a little bit. You can replace all ц'ц with ц. Generally you do not need as many ' but that doesn't make you a bad student It's all about how you interpret the sign. If it's to make the previous consonant softer then it should only replace the "ь" (soft sign) and for sounds like 'я', 'е', etc (that could be replaced with 'a, 'э respectively). For example, in word лунатики the т and к are prononunced like that by default so there is no need to put a '. I hope I'm not contraticting sunny here

The word "кто" is almost always pronounced as "xто", don't ask me why Also, the word "шoкoладки" is never pronounced with an "a" in the begining. the sound is somewhere in-betweeen ы and э so you can pronounce it as or шэкaлатки шыкaлатки - I guess it's an exception.

Great job though

[russkayatatu]

Originally posted by elf

That was awesome!! russkayatatu, you really do sound russian and the singing was amazing!

Thanks elf - greatly appreciated

The word "кто" is almost always pronounced as "xто", don't ask me why Also, the word "шoкoладки" is never pronounced with an "a" in the begining. the sound is somewhere in-betweeen ы and э so you can pronounce it as or шэкaлатки шыкaлатки - I guess it's an exception.

I haven't been commenting on any transcriptions for a simple reason: I am kind of lost when we are talking about this stuff and haven't been paying too much attention to sunnich - I always pronounced things like I heard other people pronounce them, and we talked about a lot of these rules as "spelling rules" rather than "reading rules" in class, so I don't feel like I have any authority - or can even tell sometimes - what is right and what's not But elf - "кто" pronounced like "хто" I don't know where you are getting that Maybe in the Ukraine, but I've always pronounced it like "кто" although I'm not Russian either And vowels - reduced vowels - kind of shift around, like sunny poison explained above with кажется, the sound being between an "е" and an "и," but I wouldn't say that "шоколадки" with an "а" instead of "о" is necessarily bad...but then again...maybe I am just pronouncing things wrong If anything I would say it is like an "uh" sound - "э" and "ы" both sound REALLY odd to me, but once again I don't know.

[la aurora]

Huh... coolie, PMed U with corrections.

Elf, хто is the Ukrainian Russian Any tv and radio dictor would say кто as this is the way this word should sound. Tho some russians ecpecially coming from province often say exactly how U did

The word шоколатки... well... as this first 'o' is really far from the stressed 'a', it's not clear at all. So it's between 'a' and 'o' (may remind 'e' or 'и' as well... may be 'ы' but not very...)

[coolasfcuk]

Wow, so cute You vocie is MEGA sweet I don't even dare to make any corrections here

thanks elf any why dont you dare to make corrections 'cause it is good, or 'cause there are too many mistakes?

thanks for comments so, the ' is indeed for sign - so that's why I was getting confused - I usually only use it as ь so really if I had to write it like I think - it would be:

Кажицца акажицца проше ни знакомицца
кто ис наc аткажицца взиат' и успакоицца
девачки каг девачки, а патом лунатики
намира и стрелачки, шакалатки, фантики

the цц I used because of the link sunnich provided of тся = цц and in a way it does sound like sound like кажецца or кажетца when I listen to it - but I dont know

The word "кто" is almost always pronounced as "xто", don't ask me why

hmm, I also think this is a little bit Ukranian - the people I know from Kiev always pronaunce lots more words with the x sound

Also, the word "шoкoладки" is never pronounced with an "a" in the begining.

Ok I listened to Yulia again - I agree it is not exactly a but it is...like 'uh' LoL We have a letter like that in Bulgarian: Ъ I know in Russian that is 'hard sign' but for us it is a vowel and is pronaunced something like 'uh', as in 'uh huh' And usually we translit it as a, but also could translit it as u - so I think this is probably why I automatically associated it mainly with 'a'

I have to admit - writing like that was very hard for me - since I am really not used to using cyrillic letters like that - very unnatural to me

[elf]

Originally posted by sunny poison
[b]Huh... coolie, PMed U with corrections.

Elf, хто is the Ukrainian Russian Any tv and radio dictor would say кто as this is the way this word should sound. Tho some russians ecpecially coming from province often say exactly how U did

Oohh I'm teaching the wrong russian I guess Ukrainian origin does have some bad influence.

well... may be 'ы' but not very...)

That's what 'и' sounds like after ж and ш. No?

[la aurora]

oh, yeah... and those soft signs ( ' )... Elf, it's for U т sounds soft by default if it's followed by и. It just looks natural, yeah? But don't forget our students aren't native speakers, so they'll need these signs to help them with reading. So, they won't be thinking if something should sound soft or firm and just look at the sign and know: "yes, this consonant is soft" or "not. it should stay firm in this case". Get what I mean? What is useless for us (be frank, all this transcription thing can only confuse native speaker) is very important and helpful for those who's just learning. Agree?

[coolasfcuk]

What is useless for us (be frank, all this transcription thing can only confuse native speaker) is very important and helpful for those who's just learning. Agree?

I am not a native speaker but this transcription is confusing for me - am I repeating myself.... lol..sorry. Can I from now on try to just record myself? pleaseeeeee, 'cause this is really confusing me if I have to, I will show a doctors note - I promise *thinking to myself who do I know that could write me 'fake' doctors note *

[elf]

Originally posted by sunny poison
oh, yeah... and those soft signs ( ' )... Elf, it's for U т sounds soft by default if it's followed by и. It just looks natural, yeah? But don't forget our students aren't native speakers, so they'll need these signs to help them with reading. So, they won't be thinking if something should sound soft or firm and just look at the sign and know: "yes, this consonant is soft" or "not. it should stay firm in this case". Get what I mean? What is useless for us (be frank, all this transcription thing can only confuse native speaker) is very important and helpful for those who's just learning. Agree?

"pwned" (as gamers say) Anyway, I understand what you are saying and that's approx. what I meant when I said "It's all about how you interpret the ' sign".

[elf]

thanks elf any why dont you dare to make corrections 'cause it is good, or 'cause there are too many mistakes?

You voice is just too sweet, cool And most of the corrections would involve grammar anyway (not pronounciation)

[russkayatatu]

This transcription is confusing for me too And I am not a native speaker, but we never did this because we had teachers who talked to us so we didn't have to read and figure out pronunciation on our own...and when you know the language, like you said, it is totally useless (+ confusing cause no one uses it so you have to translate from what you know to something no one uses...)

Maybe we can do just recordings (of all words, etc.) from now on? SP, I think it was a good idea and now it seems like everyone knows when consonants are soft and when vowels change from "и" to "ы", say...so we can all read approximately well...but now - recordings might be a better idea - do you think? Like, practice in reading out loud...because you don't ever have to do exercises like this to be able to speak/learn Russian Of course, people learn differently - if you can read and write correctly, that's all that's really important.