France - General discussion

[Valito]

a little OT, at least for what was being discussed. With all due respect, meaning no offense of any kind, what do you think of those people who lately have been sleeping in tents alongside the Avenue des Champs Elysées (sorry if it's bad spelled, I don't speak French )? I've heard about the problem, but lost track and now I don't know if it was worked out or what. Can it be they were called Les Enfants de Don Quichotte? (Again sorry if it's bad spelled)

PS: Good news about the birth rate, at last!

[haku]

Originally Posted by Valito

what do you think of those people who lately have been sleeping in tents alongside the Avenue des Champs Elysées? I've heard about the problem, but lost track and now I don't know if it was worked out or what. Can it be they were called Les Enfants de Don Quichotte?

Yeah, it's Les Enfants de Don Quichotte, it's an association that defends homeless people, they've put red tents for homeless people in Paris and many other cities as a form of protest.
I think it's a good idea (most French people support the protest), it highlights an outrageous problem, nobody should be homeless in a country like France, and since we are in a presidential campaign, it's the right time to make that kind of protest to get the attention of politicians and especially presidential candidates.
Things are already moving on the political side because of the public pressure, in the end we should obtain a right to free housing for the poorest people who otherwise would end up in the street, just like the right to free medical care that already exists.

[the unforgiven]

yup there's some tents on La place Bellecour in Lyon too
I agree, it's a great idea ... especially cuz' it's winter and homeless people are dying outside
it's heartbreaking to see people suffers

[Valito]

Originally Posted by haku

Yeah, it's Les Enfants de Don Quichotte, it's an association that defends homeless people, they've put red tents for homeless people in Paris and many other cities as a form of protest.
I think it's a good idea (most French people support the protest), it highlights an outrageous problem, nobody should be homeless in a country like France, and since we are in a presidential campaign, it's the right time to make that kind of protest to get the attention of politicians and especially presidential candidates.
Things are already moving on the political side because of the public pressure, in the end we should obtain a right to free housing for the poorest people who otherwise would end up in the street, just like the right to free medical care that already exists.

well when i noticed there wasn't an english version of the website i thought of leaving but then i noticed french is not that different from spanish so in the end i managed to understand a little what was happening. thank u haku!

PS: could someone translate this paragraph to english plz? im translating a song and theres this french part which i dont completely get...

Quand tu me prend dans tes bas
Quand je regarde dans tes yeux
Je vois que dieu existe
C´ est pas dur croire

it's a shakira's song, en tus pupilas (in your pupils), im uploading the album and i know ppl are looking for translations because the album is full in spanish so im working on that!

[haku]

I don't know the song, but i'm guessing it's

Quand tu me prends dans tes bras
Quand je regarde dans tes yeux
Je vois que dieu existe
C'est pas dur de croire

Which means:
When you take me in your arms
When i look in your eyes
I see that god exists
It's not hard to believe

[forre]

Originally Posted by haku

Things are already moving on the political side because of the public pressure, in the end we should obtain a right to free housing for the poorest people who otherwise would end up in the street, just like the right to free medical care that already exists.

Then you'll see half of the world invading France legally and illegally as why the hell to work if you can have almost everything for free?

[freddie]

Originally Posted by forre

Then you'll see half of the world invading France legally and illegally as why the hell to work if you can have almost everything for free?

It's not just about France. The idea is that no one should be homeless in the developed world in general. That's the essence of socially developed modern countries - helping the poor. So no one should be moving anywhere. The EU as a whole is striving towards that social utopia in which basic people's needs would be taken care of even if certain people can't afford them on their own.

[forre]

freddie, I have a perfect understanding that French candidates are trying to promise what they can't fulfill. Anything for a victory. It's a competition after all. Giving homeless free housing is easy. Put the taxes up and here you have your free housing. The question is - what will say the rest of population? Such policy will morally disable the society. Anything for a beautiful word, isn't it?

French presidential campaign is no less pathetic and hilarious than any other's democratic country on this planet. Generally speaking, of course.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by forre

freddie, I have a perfect understanding that French candidates are trying to promise what they can't fulfill. Anything for a victory. It's a competition after all. Giving homeless free housing is easy. Put the taxes up and here you have your free housing. The question is - what will say the rest of population? Such policy will morally disable the society. Anything for a beautiful word, isn't it?

French presidential campaign is no less pathetic and hilarious than any other's democratic country on this planet. Generally speaking, of course.

Oh course. That's why I said it was utopia. Taking all homeless of the streets and offering them normal health care would require enormous tax-paying power. To promise it is populism at it's finest, but then again... it IS something France (and EU as a whole) should be striving for (the goal is unreachable but we can get within reasonable margin of it eventually).

[forre]

Originally Posted by freddie

but then again... it IS something France (and EU as a whole) should be striving for (the goal is unreachable but we can get within reasonable margin of it eventually).

As I said above, this policy is very demoralizing. People need jobs. That's what the society should be striving for. I can't get that normal and capable people are homeless. Get them through a free therapy, get them jobs. That's the only way out.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by forre

As I said above, this policy is very demoralizing. People need jobs. That's what the society should be striving for. I can't get that normal and capable people are homeless. Get them through a free therapy, get them jobs. That's the only way out.

I partially agree with that. But on the other had "everyone needs a job no matter how useless it is" is a very communist rhetoric. That's why some people in Vietnam are employed as direction indicators on buses which have busted light direction indicators (the job basically involves rindign on buses and leaning out the exit doors waving their hands in direction the bus is about to turn to warn the passers-by and other motorists. )

See what I mean? Sure, find them a job. But a job that's USEFUL. If they work just to feel less useless they're still representing a burnen on society just as they would if they did nothing. Simply 'cause the tax payers give them handouts for jobs that are totally obsolete.

[forre]

freddie, We have some people who are working overtime. It's all possible to regulate but such government needs a bunch of brainy guys to solve this problem. The guy which describes a working model will be the next Nobel Prize winner. I didn't elaborate on how former socialistic countries solved this - apparently it didn't work that well but the idea of free housing will destroy not only economics but the very core of the society - a competitive spirit. Btw, work should be competitive and shouldn't be guaranteed.

France popped up with revolutionary ideas before, so why not now?

[haku]

We need a new form of collectivism, right now the world is caught in a crazy wave of ultra capitalism which is only profiting to a tiny group of people.
A country like France used to have a social model, with free medical care for all, free education for all, public services available equally in big cities and small villages, all of that is being destroyed by globalization.
Jobs are being lost every day because big companies delocalize in countries where people are paid only a few euros a day, the lower and middle classes are becoming poorer every year, what used to be free is more and more expensive, public services are being dismantled, this is not a better world.
And one of the reasons why many French people have become eurosceptics is because the EU is no longer doing what it was originally supposed to do, the goal of the EEC was to abolish internal borders but also to strengthen external borders to protect the European social model, now those external borders are wide open to unfair competition from countries where workers are treated like slaves, and that's destroying our social model.
The EU is also pushing to privatize public services like the post office, the electricity company or the train company, what good will it do to give those services to multinationals? Public services are meant to serve the public equally, not to generate profits for a small group of people. The EU doesn't need dozens of post offices, electricity companies or train companies competing with each other, just like with the European contral bank, the EU needs a European central post office, a European central electricity company and a European central train company with a monopoly over the EU market to offer a cheap and equal service to all EU citizens.
Capitalism has gone too far, and all it's doing is making rich people even richer.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by forre

freddie, We have some people who are working overtime. It's all possible to regulate but such government needs a bunch of brainy guys to solve this problem. The guy which describes a working model will be the next Nobel Prize winner. I didn't elaborate on how former socialistic countries solved this - apparently it didn't work that well but the idea of free housing will destroy not only economics but the very core of the society - a competitive spirit. Btw, work should be competitive and shouldn't be guaranteed.

France popped up with revolutionary ideas before, so why not now?

I understand your point. However there'll always be at least some people who'll be obsolete. You can't have 100% employment in a non-planned economy and still expect to make a profit. That's utopic to expect.

Originally Posted by haku

Jobs are being lost every day because big companies delocalize in countries where people are paid only a few euros a day

What you're describing is outsourcing. It's not's not uncommon in a free market. Companies find themselves in a competitive environment where their only objective is to survive. Outsourcing is just a neccesary evil which helps achieving that goal. What helps is restructuring the economy, concentrating on high-tech and exploring new technologies rather than relying on old manufacturing traditions, which can be done much cheaper in emerging markets. You just can't have a free trade orientated economy without outsourcing except through means of strict goverment interventioninism. What would that bring you eventually though? Nothing but stagnation (compared to other markets which do take advantage of free trade principles). And that'd consequently make lower classes worse off than they are now.

Originally Posted by haku

The EU is also pushing to privatize public services like the post office, the electricity company or the train company, what good will it do to give those services to multinationals? Public services are meant to serve the public equally, not to generate profits for a small group of people.

Similar argument. Studies show that public services are best managed in a competitive environment - when they're run as normal companies. Much better than having a national monopoly. Numerous companies have to offer the same service. That will make them compete and through competition they'll be forced to offer lower prices and improved quality of their services. AT&T and it's Baby Bell spin-offs in 1984 are a classic case representing the advantages of competition amongst providers.

[haku]

France has inaugurated today a new high speed railway line between Paris and Strasbourg. Trains will travel at 320km/h (it's currently 300km/h on other high speed lines).

This line will be extended much further since the final plan is to create a Paris-Munich-Vienna-Budapest high speed line.

[the unforgiven]

I've read in newspaper yesterday that the people complain about the tickets price
cuz' it's more expensive than the other high speed line
I hope it won't be a problem to extend this kind of railway... I mean I hope the price won't turn people into not buying tickets cuz' no ticket sold = no extended railway in my opinion
the SNCF won't bother to make other ones if they can't win money

oh and my brother lives in Strasbourg so it's cool

[haku]

Royal is now including in her program the foundation of a 6th Republic.
Eh, why not, i would welcome a 6th Republic, the 5th Republic has been around long enough already.


The polls can be followed in this neat, regularly updated, interactive graph, ooooooh, look at them candidates go.

[haku]

French presidency hopefuls named

Twelve candidates have qualified to run in the French presidential election.
Candidates needed the endorsement of at least 500 elected officials to take part. The first round takes place on 22 April, with a run-off two weeks later.

The frontrunners are currently Nicolas Sarkozy of the ruling centre-right UMP, Socialist candidate Segolene Royal and centrist politician Francois Bayrou.

Anti-globalisation activist Jose Bove is also in the race, as is far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen.

More than 20 politicians had been campaigning before Friday's deadline for registration.

The other successful candidates are:

Marie-George Buffet (head of Communist Party)

Arlette Laguiller (Trotskyist, who first ran in 1974)

Olivier Besancenot (head of Communist Revolutionary League, got 4.25% in 2002)

Dominique Voynet (Green party leader)

Philippe de Villiers (heads far-right Movement for France party)

Frederic Nihous (head of Hunting, Fishing, Nature and Traditions party)

Gerard Schivardi (a leftist, anti-EU mayor).

Both Mr Le Pen and Mr Besancenot called the system of collecting signatures "undemocratic", as they had struggled to get enough endorsements.

A second round of voting, two weeks after the first round, is almost certain to be needed, as no candidate is likely to win an outright majority in the first round.

Opinion polls show Mr Bayrou catching up with Mr Sarkozy and Ms Royal.

BBC

[the unforgiven]

hey frenchies
I just wanna know what do you think about the violent conflict which took place at the parisian train station la gare du Nord this week?

just a short summary about the situation, for the ones who are not aware of that
some dude got arrested pretty violently by cops because he didn't pay his subway ticket and gave a headshot to a RATP (Paris bus company) agent
the policemen were violent and people around got "wild", there was a kind of riot and now it's like everywhere in french newspaper

my opinion : this is bullsh*t! lol I mean come on, the guy who got arrested injured someone
I'm not for the violence or something, I think cops have to be able to do their job without being violent but it's not like they're evil
it's pissing me off how people can be hypocrit about this event
they're all blaming Sarkozy
I'm maybe paranoid but this event plus the arrestation of the chinese dude make me think that it's so settled to get rid of Sarko for the presidential elections, or the contrary
I don't know what to think

[haku]

First of all, if you don't pay your ticket, you get kicked out of the train, that's normal, and if you attack the train controller, you get arrested, that's normal too. So personally i completely blame the original troublemaker, what the RATP and the police did is totally normal (especially since the guy was already a registered offender with 22 offences).

Now for the riot itself, well, Gare du Nord is a place where many "gang members" hang out, they saw an opportunity to cause trouble and rob a few stores. A few of those gang members saw the original incident, they called/texted their buddies on their cell phones and there you go, in no time you have a hundred thugs rioting all over the place.

I don't know if that kind of riots are done to weaken Sarkozy, but i'm sure of one thing, it's going to do just the opposite, Sarkozy (and Le Pen) are going to climb in the polls after that kind of events, because most French people are fed up with that kind of rioters, they want order, and they're going to vote for the candidates who promise to be strict on people who break the law.