Slavic Languages

[freddie]

Mirolslav, Miro or Mirko among friends?

Yep...for us its Satan...I think all european languages have this one.

[crni]

miroslav satan???

btw...here is sotona or even satan.

[coolasfcuk]

We have that name Miroslav also, with nickname Miro, just like you freddie But I still didn't get it, who is he, and why is he God, and why such an Evil name, ha ha ha.
By the way, ever since I was little, my 10 years older brother has given me a nickname- Zomba Yes, I was a little devil.

EDIT: Ok, let me add something else here.....

I am working, and listening to all my mp3s, and one of that Katya songs came up, Kluchi, and I noticed she says: "Myi s taboi kvity", meaning: "We are [kvity]" . And in Bulgarian we say: "Nie s teb sme kvit" meaning, "we are even(quits)". Because of that, I am assuming kvit in Russian means the same- quits/even. Someone Russian confirm?
Do you guys have the same expression in your languages, is that what you say: kvit?

[freddie]

We have: "Mi smo si kvit" or "Jaz sem si s teboj kvit" ... meaning: "we are quits/even."

[crni]

"mi smo kvit" worx the same way as in russian or bulgarian

[coolasfcuk]

It's been a while since we've translated a song. Time for a new one, lets make sure that it is once again, similar in all languages, just like all the others so far.

First here is the Russian words, translated very literally, pretty much word for word, hope that makes it easier to translate for you:

Us not going to catch…..

Just say,
Faraway us two.
Just lights
Aerodrome.
We will run away
Us not going to catch.
Far away from them
Far away from home.

Night-guide ( as in the night is going to guide them)
Hides our shadows.
Behind the cloud
Behind the clouds
Us not going to find (as in, someone is not going to find them)
Us not going to change (as in, someone is not going to change them)
They will not reach
Stars with hands.

Sky will drop
The night in hands.
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch
Sky will drop
The night in hands.
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch....

We will run away
All will be simple
Night will fall
Sky will drop
And emptiness at the crossroads.
And emptiness, us not going to catch
Don’t speak, they don’t get it (not clear to them)
Just without them
Just not past
Better not at all (in no way)
But no backwards (no going back)
Just not with them
Just not with them

Us not going to catch…

Sky will drop
The night in hands.
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch
Sky will drop
The night in hands.
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch
Us not going to catch....

Us not catch us…


Ok, now here comes the Bulgarian translit:

Nas ne dogonyat *

Samo kazhi
Daleche sme nie dvete
Samo svetlini
Aerodroma
Nie shte izbiagame
Nas ne dogonyat
Daleche ot tiah
Daleche ot domat

Nosht-putevoditel
Skriva nashte sianki
Zad oblaka
Zad oblacite
Nas niama da nameriat
Nas niama da izmenyat
Niama da im dostignat
Zvezdite racete

Nebeto shte uroni
Noshta v dlanite ni
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat
Nebeto shte uroni
Noshta v dlanite ni
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat…

Nie shte izbiagame
Vsichko shte bude prosto
Noshta shte padne
Nebeto shte uroni
I pustota na krastopatia
I pustota, nas ne dogonyat
Ne govori, na tiah im e ne ponyatno
Samo bez tiah
Samo ne pokrai
Po-dobre ne taka
No ne naobratno
Samo ne s tiah
Samo ne s tiah

Nas ne dogonyat...

Nebeto shte uroni
Noshta v dlanite ni
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat
Nebeto shte uroni
Noshta v dlanite ni
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat
Nas ne dogonyat…

Nas ne dogonyat


* So, Nas ne dogonyat could be used in Bulgarian, that is why I translated it this way, to stay closer to the orginal Russian, but I would rather say: Nas niama da dogonyat or even better- Niama da ni dogonyat.
Nas = us; ni is also us or our and is used as 'us' - depending on the structure of the sentanse
niama da = not going to -
Bulgarian is more analitical language, because it dropped the 'padezh' form of the sentanse. English is very analitical language- it has NO padezh, and no femminine or masculine distictions. Also it doesnt have 'glagolni vremena', or 'glagolni sprezheniya'- something like 'verb tenses' translated into English. Bulgarian kept the 'verb tenses' though. Like this:
Here is example with one verb:
igra = play

az igraiya - I play
ti igraesh - you play
toi igrae - he plays
tia igrae - she plays
to igrae - it plays

nie igraem - we play
vie igraete - you play
te igraiyat - they play

For padezhi- hmmm- padezh is used depending on what is needed to be said. Words get different endings in Russian, depending on what padezh needs to be used for a certain situation. To know what padezh to use, there are bunch of grammar rules, and usually you can ask a question to help you figure out what padezh needs to be used. Questions like: Whose? Whom? Who? Where? ect. A lot of times a preposition is not needed- by putting the sentanse in certain padezh form (putting the ending to the word) the preposition is avoided. While in Bulgarian, since there are no padezhi, we use a lot more prepositions. Sorry, I am not explaining this very well, it is all foggy for me still, and esp. explaining it in English. But I will give you an example:

Lets take Tatu's T-shirts from USA.

Hui Voine. voina in both Russian and Bulgarian means war. Now... in Russian 'Hui Voine' literally means 'Dick to war' but to is missing, or there is no preposition in this sentanse! The ending on the word 'voina', which is 'voine' shows that the 'dick' is to the 'war'. Does it make sense?
While in Bulgarian it would be: Hui na Voinata
na is the proverb, pointing out that the 'dick' is indeed for the 'war'. The 'ta' at the end is playing the role of 'the' in english, meaning - 'voina' is simply 'war, but 'voinata' = the war. And this is how you would say it in bulgarian, without the 'ta' doesnt make much sense- then I could understand it as 'a dick at war' in addition to 'dick to war'.

This is not to say Russian doesnt use proverbs, they do, but a lot less than bulgarian, because of the padezhi. In general, Russian Grammar is a Nightmare!!! ha ha

[crni]

with all the "glagolska vremena", but also with (as you said) "padezhi" and stuff. that makes it even complicated than bulgarian and especially to a "newcomer". or if you compare it to english.

here's your example in croatian:
ja igram
ti igrash
on, ona, ono igra

mi igramo
vi igrate
oni, one, ona igraju

very fcuked up

[freddie]

Before I translate Nas Ne Dogoniat I have to comment this grammatical stuff.

And I going mad? Are padezhi what I think they are? If so then of course we have them as well. It's a base for our whole grammar. The way you described them it sounds to me that Padezhi are something we call "sklanjatve" or "sklanjatev" in singular. Words get different endings based on how you question yourself about that specific word.

For instance if you say "who or what" is this girl? And the answer would be Lena. But if you ask "who are you looking for"? The answer would be Leno (or Lenu). If you ask yourself "with who am I going to the dance?" the answer would be "z Leno" or "sa Lenom" in croatian.(with Lena). There are 6 groups of qustions which are called "skloni" and the ending changes depending on what the particualar sklon (question) is.

I know why they say Huy "Voyne" and not "Voyna", it was obvious and I never thought about it (I always thought that all slavic languages have this). It's Voyne because the question is Huy ("komu ali chemu?) Voine (in slovene you would say vojni, for this sklon (the 3th), but that is because the rules are slightly different).

Anyway I can't really explain it any better. I'd explain it much better in person with the mix of slovene and english. It's almost imposible to explain this in english. Btw the word I found in the dicionary for "sklanjatve" (and I'm pretty sure now that this is what padezhi means) is declension(s).

In addition to padezhi we also keept femminine or masculine distictions. Also we DO have 'glagolni vremena' as you say; we call them "glagolski chasi".

Ok let me take your example igrati=play in slovene:

Ednina-Singular

jaz igram
ti igrash
on, ona, ono igra

Mnozhina-Plural:

mi igramo
vi igrate
oni, one, ona igrajo

(We also have something in slovene that is called "dual", something in between singular and plural used for 2 persons ("us two"), and this changes the rules of the game immensly - all the endings change and there are other changes - that's why I'll have trouble translating Nas Ne Dogoniat, because it talks about "two girls" and I'll have to translate everything to "dual" and this will make it look strange to you).


Cool I don't understand how you don't have padezhi. How do you replace them? Always with proverbs or do you have some techniques? I was sure everybody has this (slavics I mean). I get a felling that of all slavic languages Bulgarian would be the easiest to learn of an outsider (non-slavic), because I know that padezhi is something that you have to have the felling for - you can't just learn it. And you don't make femminine or masculine distinctions? So the endings are always the same no matter what the gender is?

Please confirm to me if I have the right idea of what padezhi is. The way you described it, it can't be nothing else then "sklanjatev". Your definition could as well be used for sklanjatev.

I will translate Nas Ne Dogoniat shortly (I have some problems which I've mentioned above, but no worries, it will be there).

EDIT: The funny thing is that Bulgarian is more similar to russian as far as vocabulary is concearned, while grammaticaly it seems that croatian and slovene are closer with "padezhi", "fem-mas separation", "glagolski chasi" and such specialities.

[coolasfcuk]

freddie, wait wait...
First- Bulgarian does have femminine and masculine, just like we have 'glagolni vremena'- we just don't have 'padezhi'. Endings are different for femminine or masculine.
Ok, padezhi, yes, it is what you are describing. sklanjatve- yeah, this is skloneniya in plural or sklonenie in singular in Bulgarian, and this is what Padezhi are. And yes, all other Slavic languages have them BUT Bulgarian. so you can understand why it is hard for me to explain it in English. Even German has 2 or 3 padezhi. And when I was studying Russian in 3-4 grade, let me tell you- it was a nightmare !!! LoL
In Russian they have names, I dont even know if I can remember all of them.... lets see:

Imenitelnyi
Roditelnyi
Vinitelnyi
Tvoritelnyi
Prilagatelnyi
Predlozhnyi
Datelnyi

I think those are all, will have to check this again.

I will have to think how to explain how we substitute padezhi- is it only with prepositions or not- let me get back to you on that issue.
As if it easier or harder- hmmm- I am not sure it is easier. And especially the cyrillic really throws people off. I have a friend-American- that is coming back home to Bulgaria with me for 2 weeks, so right now he is learning Bulgarian- ha ha ha- it is pretty interesting- the alphabet really confuses him- and from there, everything gets confused- because if you cant read its NOt good.

'who or what is that girl'= 'koe e tova momiche'- answer: 'Lena'.
'who are you looking for?' = 'kogo tarsish?' - answer is: 'Lena'
'with who am I going to the dance' = 's kogo shte hodia na tancite' - answer is: 's Lena'
See, no matter what question we ask, Lena is Lena and the ending doesnt change. But all slavic languages can do the intonation thing, like: Lena could become Lenochka, Lenka, Lenok, Lenochik, Lenkichka (in Bulgarian, I dont know if Russian would say that)... and I can keep on going making up nick-names for Lena. My nick-name in Bulgaria for my close friends is Ise, but from that, they also call me: Isence, Iska, Isok...ect, ect.

EDIT: wait, reading your edit, I think you missunderstood- the only thing Bulgarian is missing is the 'padezhi', everything else we have- we have the femminine-masculine separation, we have 'glagolni vremena'. The example with 'igraiya' up there- that's Bulgarian, see how it changes depending if its 'parvo, vtoro, treto lice- edinstveno chislo' or 'parvo, vtoro, treto lice- mnozhestveno chislo' that's what we call those groups- I forgot what they are called in English- singular and Plural
'parvo' means - 'first', 'vtoro' means- 'second', 'treto' means- 'third'. 'lice' literally means 'face'. 'edinstveno chislo'- 'chislo' literally means 'number'- that's just how we call those cathegories

Edinstveno chislo = Singular
Az sam = I am- parvo lice
Ti si = You are- vtoro lice
Toi, tia, to e = he, she, it is - treto lice

Mnozhestveno chislo = Plural
nie sme = we are- parvo lice
vie ste = you are - vtoro lice
te sa = they are - treto lice

And I have a feeling, that if Bulgarian hadnt dropped the 'padezhi', Bulgarian would be alsmost the same as Russian.

[freddie]

Ok I see now. So you have everything except padezhi. I was getting a little confused there. I was pretty sure you had at least gender separation and maybe "glagolski chasi." I'm glad we got that out of the way. I was getting a headache because of this - I just can't imagine a slavic language without this (gender separation + glagolski chasi) - it's after all one of the basic things we can understnd eachother by (even more then with the similar vocabulaty thing).
I also belive bulgarian would be almost the same as russian if it wasn't for this padezhi. The vocabulary is almost identical in some ways.

You're right about german they have 4 padezhi (nominativ, akkusativ, dativ, genitiv), and it is an even bigger nightmare then slavic ones.

We also have 6. padezhi (sklonov), and this is how they go:

1.) imenovalnik (kdo ali kaj?)- who or what?
2.) rodilnik (koga ali chesa?) - who or what is missing?
3.) dajalnik (komu ali chemu?) - to whom?
4.) tozhilnik (koga ali kaj) - who do I see?
5.) mestnik (s kom ali chem?) - with who?
6.) orodnik ( pri kom ali chem) - by who am I?


That sounds pretty funny to me, when you ask with whom are you going to the dance, and the answer is always Lena. To us the answer would be "Z Leno." Sometimes people who don't use "sklanjatve" yet, because they are still learning the language, we say that they have the "indian talk" - that they talk like indians (all words in basic forms, you know). He, he

I know what you're saying about the intonation thing: Lenochka, Lenka, Lenok, Lenochik, Lenkichka, Lenkica, Lenchica... it's all good. But I think other languages can do thi to so it's not a striclty slavic thing.



EDIT: Aha, what you call Mnozhestveno/edninstveno chislo is ednina/mnozhina for us. And what you call "lice" we call "oseba" (which litteraly means "person", so 1., 2., 3., person, prva(1),druga(2), tretja(3) oseba). Lice also mens "face" to us, but we don't use it in such a conotation here.

Ednina - singular:
Jaz sem = I am - prva oseba
Ti si = You are - druga oseba
on, ona, ono je = he, she, it is - tretja oseba

Mnozhina - plural:
mi smo = we are - prva oseba
vi ste = you are - druga oseba
oni so = they are - tretja oseba

You see? Here I was worring that you don't have this grammatical structure at all and it turns out that it is in fact pretty similar.


Don't hit me over the head with it but I'm gonna write "dual" as well (so you maybe can understand why Nas Ne Dogoniat looks weird.) no other slavic language has this except us so you don't have to bother even reading it. Just as a couriosity. So this is for 2 persons:

Dvojina-Dual:
midva sva = we two are - prva oseba
vidva sta = you two are - druga oseba
onadva sta = they two are - tretja oseba

[coolasfcuk]

Dvojina-Dual:
midva sva = we two are - prva oseba
vidva sta = you two are - druga oseba
onadva sta = we two are - tretja oseba

This is very interesting, I am super tired right now, so I am trying to think if we have something similar to this.... how would we say it...

ha ha, I keep looking at it, and Because I know how prva(parvo in BG), druga(vtoro), tretja(treto) osebi [is this how you would say oseba in plural?] (lica - this is lice in plural in Bulgarian) work, But are the first one and the third one suposed ot be both 'we'? LoL But I dont think we have anything even close to that- I will ask my mom, she knows more about this than me But anyway, if I translate it in bulgarian it's like this:

nie dvamata(in masculine form)/dvete (in feminine form) sme = we two are
vie dvamata (masc.)/dvete(fem.) ste = you two are
te dvamata(masc)/dvete(fem.) sa = they two are

but it is in a way coming from Mnozhestveno chislo:
Nie sme
vie ste
te sa

and we just add dvama(masc.)/dve(fem.) to make it known it's two people.Same would work for 3,4,5,6,7......ect

Nie trimata(m.)/trite(f.) sme = we three are
vie trimata(m.)/trite(f.) ste = you three are
te trimata(m.)/trite(f.) sa = they three are

'and so on and so forth' for any number or as we say for that: ' i taka na tatak'

About the intonation- Hmmm - I dont think any language can do it. First lets stick to the names- so try to do it in english- what happens: take Nicholas for example, so nick name for it is Nick. Ok then you get Nicky- but really in english (at least in America) usually means it is a little kid, once Nick grows up , rarelly people would call him Nicky. And besides nicky, I cant think of another one! LoL

Now, the thing is that we can do the intonation thing not only with Names. lets take.... simple word like 'mother' which in Bulgarian is 'maika'. So now i start... when you call your mother in english you can call her: 'mom', 'mommy' maybe 'mama' too but not very used. Now Bulgarian ways to call your mom: ' mama', 'mamo', maichitse', 'mamince', 'mamichka' (the last 3 making it sound very sweet), 'maiko' (not too nice sounding for me, but lots of kids call their mom that), 'mamishte' (if you are really pissed off at her) ect. ect those are the most often used ones, but we can make up many more, that even if it wasnt too used, people would still know what it means.
Ok if you still want to clasify 'mom' as sort of a name, since you are calling someone that, lets get another word. For example: 'kobila' which is female horse. I can say: 'kobilka' (to make it sweet), 'kobilishte' (to make it sound bad), 'kobilchitca', 'kobilarka', ect ect.
Or 'little' which is 'malko' in Bulgarian. i can say: 'manichko', 'maninko'
'piece of clothing' = "dreha', 'dreshka', 'dreshchica', 'dreshishte'

And so on, for any word

Take tatu for example, in the German interview, where Yulia is answering about Neposedi- she calls it 'Neposedkah' - this is not happening in english. It makes it sound 'sweeter'. we would do the same thing. Say in bulgarian I wanted to make the same word, 'neposedi' sound bad, I would say: 'Neposedyalishtata' and every bulgarian would know what feeling I put into the word, and that I am talking about Neposedi

And about the Bulgarian and Russian words being very similar- yes, the thing is that in the texts, the Russian ones are amost always in some sort of padezh, so seem kind of different, but the root is always the same, and the main word (without) it being in padezh are the same in most situations. that is for words that arent completelly different, but the different ones are WAY less than the same ones. I would say 70-75% are the same(or at least have the same root), and 25-30 % are completely different.
Here is a funny story about this... So my friend from Russia is back in town, and the other day while driving to a party in a different town (loooong drive) we were discussing Russian and Bulgarian, comparing words, so one of us would say a word in their language first and the other - in theirs for comparesment, and because they werent in sentanses (so no padezhi) majority were exactly the same, or at least with the same root. then we came to the word 'window' which is completely different, I knew that but he didnt. so I said it first, I said : 'prozorec' - that's window in Bulgarian. And he said in Russian: 'okno' which is 'window'. I didnt expect it, ha ha ha, 'cause I knew it was different. I expressed my surprise and he said: ' yeah, but I understood because of- 'pro' and 'zor' " See, the roots of the words help a lot.

[spyretto]

yeah, you're right, you actually borrowed our alphabet. No much to tell, really. But your alphabet is even more complicated than ours. I have the Russian alphabet in front of me and most of the letters are the same. ( I'm using phonics cause not everybody has the Russian encoding - or the Greek encoding for that matter )

A ( same as alpha)
beh
veh B ( same as beta )
geh ( same as gama )
deh ( same as delta )
yeh E (same as epsilon )
yo
zheh
zeh Z (same as zeta )

no theta but then it starts again
kah K is the Greek kappa
lah L is lamda
ehm M is mi
ehn H is ni ( although it's written exactly as the Greek eta which is another version of "i" )
O (omicron)
peh & ehr P ( and written exactly the same as our 'pi' and 'ro' as well )
C that's our sigma (S). But in Byzantium there was no "S", just "C"
T taf
Y ypsilon
ehf or the Greek 'fi'
X that's your "H" it's our too
and then you have the psi and omega but they have different pronounciations, followed by some slavic vowels I know nothing about ( like the inverted R which obviously means yoo - as in Yulia

So basically Cyril and Methodius ( the holy apostles or missionaries ) incorporated our Greek alphabet the way it was known in the Byzantium - unsirprisingly as they were Orthodox Christians and were they Greek too? ( I'm sure Cyril is a Slavic name but Methodius sounds very Greek )
And then they added a lot of extras ( probably from some old slavic alphabet? I've no clue ). So it's relatively easy for a Greek to read Russian ( and vice versa ) as long as you sort out the vowels.

That's all I know but don't say the Bulgarian ( or whatever ) alphabet is the mother of all slavic alphabets, cause I'm afraid it's the Greek, my dears ( I know it's annoying but what can you do?? )

(all very interesting for a topic that was "Bomba Goda on TV" )

[freddie]

Cool don't bother with dvojina-dual as I said this is a strickly slovene thing. There is no other language (at least slavic one) who has this. And you guessed right, it does originate from plural (mnozhina), but it's not quite the same. We slovenes like to joke that ours is the only language in the world where 2 people can say they love eachother and it means just the two of them (it sounds different then plural). So they can share more intimacy with those words, because they concearn just them two .
And I made a mistake in that 3.oseba dual (of course it's they not we). Plural of "oseba" would be "osebe", dual of oseba would be "osebi" (dve(2) osebi, tri(3) osebe).

I get now the stuff you say about intination. It's very weird. Like you can color the word with emotions. Hard to explain.

Btw: Window is "okno" in slovene. I think it is "prozor" in croatian. And I would understand pro-zor, because I also know where the root comes from although we have a completely different word (okno). It's importaint that you know how a word is formed and then you can pretty much figure it out what it means. So you have to guess how other nations think about some stuff. But I guess this is only possible within a language family. I don't know if an Italian could guess a german word like that.

"Kobila" is female horse here too. Male horse is "konj".

[coolasfcuk]

Now that we are in the right thread, LoL, let me answer...

Of course! I don't deny, and never did, that Cyrillic alphabet is very closely related to Greek. (This is exactly why I asked you to comment on this) After all, if you've read everything posted around here, the two brothers- Cyril and Methodius had one parent Greek and one parent Slav. They spoke both languages- greek and what was the old Slavic language. And honestly, I think they took a lot of inspiration from the greek alphabet, but also a little from the latin- borrowned letters and flipped them around, mirrored them, and so on. What I was saying was that, Bulgaria, at the times, was the first country to harbor the deciples of Cyril and Methodius, and the Cyrillic writing, after they were kicked out of Moravia,and from here it spread around to Ukrain, Russia, Belarous, and whereever else.

freddie yeah I see how it works- the dual one I am waiting to read the translation of Nas Ne Dogonyat now- should be interesting.

For us male horse is: kon.

[freddie]

Here you go. All the nightmares of dual-dvojina. Everything has to be adopted. And to ad to this - female dual is more complicated then the male. Ahhhh, why aren't tatu two guys?!
If there was no dual then the title would be something like "Nas ne dobiti"...and "...dalech midve...." would be "dalech nas dvoje"...and so on.

But you have to understand that I get almost all the russian words, it's just that we don't have this kind of expressions anymore (or they are too oldfashined in our language to use). But most of the time I can at least guess what the russian word means (just like you mantioned with okno- prozor). I understand the words like ubezhat, izmenyat, provodnik... I know very well what they mean. It's just that we have different expressions for those. You know what I'm saying?




Ne Bodo naju dobili

Samo rechi,
dalech midve
samo luchi
aerodroma

midve bova zbezhali
ne bodo naju dobili
dalech od njih
dalech od doma

noch vodnik
skrije najini senci
za oblakom
za oblaki

naju ne bodo nashli (or najdli)
naju ne bodo spremenili
ne bodo dosegli
zvezd z rokami

nebo bo padlo
noch v rokah
ne bodo naju ujeli
ne bodo naju ujeli
nebo bo padlo
noch v rokah
ne bodo naju ujeli
ne bodo naju ujeli
ne bodo naju ujeli...

midve bova zbezhali
vse bo preprosto
noch bo padla
nebo bo potonilo

In praznina
na razpotju
in praznina
naju ne bodo dobili

ne govori
oni ne razumejo
samo brez njih
samo ne mimo

boljshe nikakor
ampak ne obratno
samo ne z njimi
samo ne z njimi

Ne Bodo naju dobili...

nebo bo padlo
noch v rokah
Ne Bodo naju dobili
Ne Bodo naju dobili
nebo bo potonilo
noch v rokah
Ne Bodo naju dobili
Ne Bodo naju dobili
Ne Bodo naju dobili

[coolasfcuk]

freddie That was pretty interesting- seeing the dual 'chislo' in action I understood most of the Slovene translation. Here are some notes from me: (god, do I have to say once again, that I love this thread )


Samo rechi - in BG I translated this as 'samo kazhi'. 'kazhi' for us is the right word here- 'say'. But 'rech' for us is 'speach', or 'talk. (see, the roots of different words)
dalech midve - no comment here, as you said, we dont have the dual thing, but 'dve' in bulgarian means 'two' in female form, so I understand that. 'dalech' is pretty much same for us.
samo luchi - ok I translated this as 'samo svetlini' 'svetlini' for us are 'lights' but like from a lamp. 'luchi' for us are like light rays, say from the sun, so I also understad this.
aerodroma - that one is the same in all languages so far

midve bova zbezhali - dual again, about 2 females, 'bova' is something we clearly dont have because of the dual, but 'zbezhali' I get from 'biagam' or as we have it old dialect (only used by people in the villages speaking dialects) 'begam', meaning 'run'
ne bodo naju dobili - I will stop commenting on the dual one from here, but 'dobili'- ok, I get this because we say: 'dobil' or 'sdobil'- when someone gets something
dalech od njih - I find it funny how you say 'od' and we say 'ot' ha ha, while pronauncing it, you cant hear the difference as much, but reading it definatelly looks funny. I get 'njih' because of Russian, for that we say 'tiah'
dalech od doma - this one is pretty much the same as ours

noch vodnik - 'noch' for us 'nosht'. 'vodnik', I get this because we say: 'vodia'- meaning 'to lead'. But for guide we say 'putevoditel' - from 'put' or 'pat' (second letter is the vowel I explained) = 'road/path' and 'vodia'= 'lead' or 'voditel' = someone that leads.
skrije najini senci - this is pretty much the same as in BG: "skrie nashte senki'
za oblakom - pretty much the same, but since no padezh for us- oblak stays oblak, and 'za' for us is 'zad. 'za' means 'for' for us.
za oblaki - no need for comment here

naju ne bodo nashli (or najdli) I get this because of Russian- 'nashli'
u ne bodo spremenili I get this because: 'menia' in BG is 'change'. Except we use different prefix for the word, the root is still the same. 'izmenili' for us or 'spremenili' for you
bodo dosegli we have: dosiagam' - meaning 'reaching' but we wouldnt use it in this sentance, we would use: 'dostigam'. which is also reach'. Now reading 'bodo' I thought of our word: 'buda" or "bada" (translited either way since the second letter is the vowel I explained before)- it means 'be' in the future. So if I say: 'az shte buda' means 'I will be'
zvezd z rokami - this is pretty much the same as in BG but in some padezh

nebo bo padlo - ok I understand this one because: 'nebo' is pretty much the same as 'nebe' for us. (is it in padezh? that's why it ends on 'o'?) then 'padlo' - we have: 'pada' = 'fall' we would say: 'nebeto e padnalo' = 'the sky has fallen' but I wonder if you guys have something close to 'ronia' or 'ronja' (translited either way) 'uronja' is better word here, because it means - hmmm how to explain it- it implies pieces, like you took a piece of something - for example we say: 'hliaba se roni' = 'the bread is coming into pieces', like it is becoming crumbles- does it make sense?
noch v rokah - Well I also get this one because- I translated it as 'dlani' which is 'palms' in english. But 'ruce' or 'race' (again that vowel) is 'hands' for us. 'race' is in plural though, in singular it is: 'raka' or 'ruka'

midve bova zbezhali - no need to comment, since I already explained 'biagam'
vse bo preprosto[/b] - pretty much the same as BG
[b]noch bo padla - already explained 'pada'
nebo bo potonilo - now where is 'potonilo' coming from?? I dont understand this one

In praznina - I understand this one, because: 'praznina' for us is 'emptiness' but in this sense it is better to say 'pustota' which also means 'emptiness'. I will have to think how to distinguish between 'pusto' and 'prazno'. hmm...'pusto' implies inhabitance- like there nothing happening around, while 'prazno' is empty, as in the 'bottle is empty', while if there is no one around you in the world it is 'pusto', makes sense?
na razpotju - I get this from 'put' or 'pat' (once again that vowel, lol) which is 'road' so the root helps again
in praznina - already explained that one
naju ne bodo dobili- and this one also explained

ne govori - this is 100% the same, lol
oni ne razumejo - I get this because: 'razumejo'- ok, we have 'razum' as I explained a while ago- meaning .. looking for the word in english...ah, I cant think of it in english and I am at work, will have to edit this later, sorry, but it makes sense to me
samo brez njih - 'samo' same for us exactly, 'brez' almost the same as 'bez', and hjih' like I said I understand from Russian
samo ne mimo - understand from Russian

boljshe nikakor - 'boljshe' is like 'bolshe' in Russina, which is 'more' so I can kind of see how this becomes 'better' more than good you know, 'nikak' for us, 'nikakor' for you- same root
ampak ne obratno - ampak' is something we dont have, be the rest is the same
samo ne z njimi - once again, pretty much the same structure, except 'nijmi' for you, 'tiah' for us, and also we say 's' and you say 'z'- ha ha, how funny, once again saying it could sound the same, but writting it down looks different and funny- this tells you just how the pronanciatin was the same, and then when the slavs split- you started writing it one way and we the other
samo ne z njimi

Ok, this is it from my analysis, see how close it is- I understand pretty much everything

[freddie]

Wow Cool I loooved your analisis!!!

You see this is what I was trying to say the whole time: even when the word is not the same you can pretty much guess it what it means by figuring out the root. I fell exactly the same way.

Just some additional explanations:
Samo rechi - rechi is the correct here in slovene, although this word could also mean speech or talk as you said. I know kazhi of course because croatian is "kazhi". "Kazati" in slovene means "to point at something". It's funny how some words changed their meaning in time.

samo luchi - luchi are like from a lamp for us, while svetloba is more like the light from the sun.

dalech od njih - - yup, you say "ot" while we say "od". but the funny thing is that when I speak it it sounds like "ot". So this is just the writen word taht's different while pronounciation is the same.

noch vodnik - - Voditi = to lead in slovene. So we all have a similar verb. And when you say "putevoditel' I know exactly what you mean with it, although we don't have that word. Pot=path in slovene and voditelj= almost the same as "vodnik". So you could say voditej instead of vodnik in some cases.

u ne bodo spremenili - ha, ha... menia yes. I understand what "izmenili" means and you know what "spremenili" means because the root is the same.

nebo bo padlo: Nebo is not in any padezh (well everything is in padezh, but this is the 1.one= imenovanik, so the basic form). The reason why nebo ends with -o is because it's middle gender (srednji spol - not feminine, not masculine...) and those words tend to end with -o. The ending can then change depending on which padezh or sklon it is but this is the basic form. Doesn't the russian word also end with an -o?
And now to padlo...yes I took that from pada - to fall the same as with you. And I was wondering about that "uronja" stuff. Actualy "roniti" means "to dive" in croatian and I thought it might have to do with something going under the water figuratively speaking. And slovene word for "to dive" is "potopiti" (that would be uroniti in croatian I think), that's why I translated it once as "potopiti." But nevermind I though that this was wrong anyway. And the way you say it now: "to crumble"....hmmm.... we don't have anything similar, maybe "zdrobiti"....

noch v rokah - Yes. We have "dlani" as palms as well. If I translate it that way it would be "noch v dlaneh". Roke is plural yes. Singular is "roka". Pretty close. And if I understand correctly you have that half-vovel sound in raka-ruka (like slunce right?). We pronounce it similar to this.

nebo bo potonilo - I explained this on above. I understand "roniti", "uroniti" it's a familiar word to me but not in that context I guess.

In praznina -- Pusto- prazno: Yep exactly like you've said. We distiguish those to words exactly like that. The problem is we have such word as "pustota" for us. Maybe "puschoba" but it's not used often. "Praznina" is used the most, but "puschoba would be good I guess.

na razpotju - Yep the root helps here. We have "pot" and you have "put/pat which means road. And that raz- od- pri- are standard slavic prefixes that are used differently, but you usualy get the felling what was meant.
I'm beginnin to see a patern developing here: Wherever you have that half-vowel sound we use -o instead. Look at this: raka/ruka- roka, slance/slunce- sonce, put/pat - pot. Looks like we have droped that sound, 'cause it was to inconveniant for us to pronounce or something and replaced with -o's everywhere

oni ne razumejo - Razum, um (Like: Ya Soshla S Uma) we have that and this is where this word comes from. Razum means "mind" and also other stuff as well, but I can't find any apropriate english terms.

samo ne z njimi - About s/z: We may write z but "z" is very hard to pronounce and it always comes out as "s" - "s njim"...So this is a difference in writing as well.


You described in your analisis exactly the way in which I can understand Russian, Croatian and Bulgarian: some words are not the same, but the roots are, some words you have a felling of what they mean, some words are indeed the same or pretty close and it all ads up. Fabulous!

[coolasfcuk]

Yeah, freddie, Fabilous indeed! I think this is how we should analyze. now we need Croatian too. And I have a feeling, soon I will be ready to come visit those countries, and do pretty good undertsnding and replying.

Little additions from me in return:

'point at something' for us is pokazhi. It also means show,same in Russian, so see, pokazhi the root is still there - just different prefix

you say svetloba for light from the sun. We have svetlina which is 'light' in general or svetlo,which is an adjective, means 'light'. svetia means to 'shine'.

nebo is middle gender (srednji spol - not feminine, not masculine...

He, for us also. 'nebe' is middle gender (we call it- sreden rod, not 'zhenski rod', not 'mazhki rod') I guess our middle gender words are either ending on 'o' or 'e', I am not sure if one of the 2 letter more than the other. And yes, the Russian is also on 'o'- 'nebo'.

"potopiti" I understand that, we have - topia to 'dip', from it we have potopia - to 'dive, to dip something in'
"zdrobiti"....yeah, you are getting there, we have drobia which I am not sure how to translate in english- to cut, make something in small pieces. for us drobia and ronia are synonyms, so I perfectly understand what you mean. But I dont think we can say 'nebeto nadrobi noshta v dlanite mi'..ahhh, I will get back on this one latter, I will have to figure out how to distinguish between 'ronia' and 'drobia'.

And if I understand correctly you have that half-vovel sound in raka-ruka (like slunce right?)

yes, this is that vowel in raka/ruka. But for us it is full vowel, he he,

Next time we should compare some words with our 'weird' vowel, taht you call half-vowel and see it is true that you have 'o' instead of it.

Yes, yes exactly 'razum' is 'mind' and a little more than that, but like you I cant find appropriate english words. And yes, 'razum' comes from 'um' we also have that.

[freddie]

We also have pokazhi /pokazati, and it means "to show", but just kazati means "to point at something". For instance if I translated the chorus of Ya Tvoya Ne Pervaya it'd be pokazhi mi ljubezen (pokazhi mne lyubov'-show me love). So show is pokazhi as well, but when it's used without the prefix as kazhi then it means "to point at something."

Svetlo as adjective - we have it. The same. "To shine" is svetiti.

Ok so you have drobia. I thought so. We can also say "drobiti" which would mean "to crumble", and zdrobiti basicly means the same (I'm not really sure what the difference is really ) Maybe if you could explain the difference between roniti and drobiti I could find a word in our language that would suite this one.

I looked into a slovene-engish dictionary to see what it says for "razum" and this is what it had to offer: mind, intellect, sense, reason, inteligence; figuratively: brain; zdrav razum : common sense, proti zdravemu razumu: against common sanse.
I had a problem with Ya Soshla S Uma. I could easily translate it as Jaz sem shla z Uma, but the problem was we don't have an expression like this although all the words are correct and every slovene would understand what you're talking about. It would just look odd.

This is where my theory about the "half-vowel" being replaced by o comes from. In some regions of Slovenia, people say "roka" and "pot" in dialect exactly like you described it with a "half-vowel". So maybe this is a left-over from the "old language", because dialects often keep such things that moden language doesn't have anymore. And maybe it's not replaced only with o's, maybe also other vowels. But the 3 words that I've heard so far (slunce-put-ruka are always replaced with o). Maybe you should give me some more examples of this vowel in a word, but this will be difficult, because the word would have to be the same in both langauges to make the comparison. (so far we have been lucky with the three above).

[coolasfcuk]

The translations you got from your dictionary for razum sound perfect!! same in bulgarian- I will also add what the bulgarian-english dictionary has to offer when I get home.
Ya Soshla S Uma = Izgubila Sam si Uma ( izgubila could also be zagubila- both would be the same.
Izgubila/zagubila = lost in female form
sam where the a is the vowel, means = 'am' or that i am the female that has lost something
si = also a little thing that points out that the mind being lost is mine (I think this might be one of the extra 'words' (I will have to see exactly what those type of words are called in english), that we have in substitution for all of your padezhi
Uma = mind . the a at the end- ah that is hard to explain. It is part of grammar rules, I will have to revisit Bulgarian grammar to be able to explain it- ha ha ha, shows you how many things I've forgoten.

By the way, we also have a shorter expression also: poludiyala sam = I've gone crazy/lost my mind. comes from lud for masculine or luda for feminine = 'crazy' with prefix 'po'. it is just as used as 'zagubila sam si uma'.
ok few other words with the vowel: (lets hope they are similar)
to know which one is the vowel, I will spell it once with u once with a

kamping or kumping = camp grounds
kashta or kushta = house
prast or prust = finger....
oh how about this one.. bulgaria or balgaria ha ha ha, yes, we spell the name of our country with this vowel
dano or duno = bottom
pap or pup = belly bottom
purzha or parzha = to fry
palen or pulen = full
dalag or dulag = long
davcha or duvcha = to chew
kosam or kosum = one hair
then , kasam or kusam = to tear - otkasni or otkusni = tear off
stalba or stulba = stair

Ok, those are enough for know, hope some of those have similar root.