USA - General discussion (Part 2)

[dradeel]

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

What does Dyslexia have to do with Bush and his inability to run a country? Other than his speaking skills, nothing. Bush is an idiot when it comes to foreign policy - totally ignorant of various world cultures and not even wanting to realize their existence if they stand between his oil and his goal of establishing a Christian democracy somewhere in the world. Bush has no understanding of the economy, he simply things that printing more money and raising taxes will fix the never-ending national debt he's sank us into. His simplistic "guy-next-door" demeanor is nothing more than his lack of intelligence shinning through his blank face. He is a failure as a president, and a primary cause for the ruination of American politics and what America is supposed to stand for.

Dyslexia doesn't have anything to do with the inability to run a country, but sadly enough it can make someone come off as an idiot, when he/she in fact isn't.

Say what you want about his foreign policies - yes, they are fucked up, no question about that, and I don't like Bush in any way -, but the policies are so because of a fucked up political direction in general that Bush is only a part of... and be aware that even though Bush was pushing America's foreign policy to a new level, this has been more or less the foreign policy of America over the last 50 years; Sticking their nose into other people's business and waging war all over the world. What Bush did is in no way strange behaviour of an American administration. Does this defend his actions? Of course not.

Say what you want about his economic policies of printing money etc - they're wrong, irresponsible and it will only build upon the problem, no doubts about it ... but also know that these actions have made them able to postpone the problem a really long time. It's actually quite amazing how they've been able to go on for so long with this, behaving like they've done, and still be able to keep everything pretty smooth and running. Are they stupid and don't know any better? Or do they act upon a policial theory and idea saying they can survive like this? I think the latter. We are in an economical crisis now, but the possible (REAL) problems have not even appeared yet. So we'll see if they have been able to survive this, or if it indeed was a kamikaze mission to begin with. The coming months and years will be interesting, indeed.

But calling Bush (a man who has twice been elected president in the world's most powerful country, a man who was able to dupe the politicans both in America and in "the rest of the world" into believing that entering Iraq was correct and easy) an idiot is clearly underestimating the fellow. Yes, Bush had some really clever people working for him, but there's no reason to believe that he was just a puppet (at least, not completely so). His policies were wrong, absolutely, but that doesn't make him an idiot. I'm thinking that if Bush is an idiot because of his policies, then Hitler must've been the least intelligent retard to ever have set foot on this earth, yet I think we can all agree that Hitler was insanely clever.

I think actually the fact that Bush (and Hitler for that matter) is smart is the worst thing about him. If he was a complete and utter retarded idiot he would've been out of office long time ago, or even better; wouldn't be able to enter office at all. He will go down in history books as one of the worst american leaders ever, not because he's stupid, but because of being disliked by the public for his actions. He will be studied in times to come, not because he's stupid, but because of his weird and charismatic behaviour and how he was able to do what he did.

Originally Posted by Khartoun2004

Obama will be a true leader worthy of the comparisons to JFK, FDR, Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

Let's not write history before it's made. For yours, america's and the world's sake I hope you're right though... but I still have my slightest doubts. Forgive me for saying I'm expecting him to be "just okay" A positive surprise, however, would make me very happy indeed!

[Talyubittu]

Dyslexia doesn't have anything to do with the inability to run a country, but sadly enough it can make someone come off as an idiot, when he/she in fact isn't.

But calling Bush (a man who has twice been elected president in the world's most powerful country, a man who was able to dupe the politicans both in America and in "the rest of the world" into believing that entering Iraq was correct and easy) an idiot is clearly underestimating the fellow. Yes, Bush had some really clever people working for him, but there's no reason to believe that he was just a puppet (at least, not completely so). His policies were wrong, absolutely, but that doesn't make him an idiot. I'm thinking that if Bush is an idiot because of his policies, then Hitler must've been the least intelligent retard to ever have set foot on this earth, yet I think we can all agree that Hitler was insanely clever.

You obviously didn't understand what I said. Bush did nothing to better America, and has been the ruination of this country. THAT is why he is an idiot. I do find him highly unintelligent on many subjects, but that's another tangent. Focusing on your last paragraph (which I didn't quote) - Bush will go down as an idiot because of the poor choices he made. The fact that he's educated has nothing to do with it. Smart people can make stupid decisions - and he has made his fair share again and again - and again.

Say what you want about his economic policies of printing money etc - they're wrong, irresponsible and it will only build upon the problem, no doubts about it ... but also know that these actions have made them able to postpone the problem a really long time. It's actually quite amazing how they've been able to go on for so long with this, behaving like they've done, and still be able to keep everything pretty smooth and running.

Right, becuase the appropriate thing to do IS to postpone and make matters worse for the American economy. It's obvious you don't live in the U.S. because NOTHING is "smooth' and "running" unless you're a millionaire. Foreclosures are a daily happening, interest rates on loans are so high that nobody can afford anything anymore. Gas is finally "affordable" now that everyone is used to paying $3.50 a gallon. Minimum wage isn't HALF of what is needed to live comfortably, and on top of all of this - the entire economic future of this country for my generation is unknown. Social Security is down the drain, so why do I even pay into it as a working American? - Beats me. If everything was "smooth" and "running" like you say - then that million dollar bailout wouldn't have even been proposed. But currently, America is all about making the rich guy richer and keeping those in the middle class in debt for eternity.

[coolasfcuk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY

[Talyubittu]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY

Thank you for posting this. I'm really glad Keith Olbermann did this. Major respect for him.

[dradeel]

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

You obviously didn't understand what I said. Bush did nothing to better America, and has been the ruination of this country. THAT is why he is an idiot. I do find him highly unintelligent on many subjects, but that's another tangent. Focusing on your last paragraph (which I didn't quote) - Bush will go down as an idiot because of the poor choices he made. The fact that he's educated has nothing to do with it.

All I'm saying is that calling him an idiot or unintelligent isn't very accurate or right. However, you can call him a jerk and an asshole, perhaps even insane, and you'd be quite correct.

As I said; calling Bush unintelligent because of his policies is like saying Hitler was the biggest retarded idiot of an unintelligent being that has ever set foot on this earth, yet people have no problem agreeing that the guy was clever, smart and highly intelligent, possibly so to an insane degree ... it's in my opinion this intelligence that has made him able to do such straight out evil and unfair actions.

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Right, becuase the appropriate thing to do IS to postpone and make matters worse for the American economy. It's obvious you don't live in the U.S. because NOTHING is "smooth' and "running" unless you're a millionaire.

Nono, I didn't say it's the appropriate thing to do. Quite the contrary - it's irresponsible and foolish. There IS a crisis at the moment, yes, and Bush's policies have only made it worse, of course... but know that it's amazing that such insane politics haven't run USA into a inflation-like situation like post 1929 germany or something. Bush has been very good at "selling" america and the dollar and by such been able to spend wildly yet not commit murder to america, if I could use that term... it's only mild torture atm. This is what I mean with "pretty smooth and running" --- you're supposed to take the whole situation into consideration of what it could've been, and it could've been much worse... (actually, it might still get even more worse, and it won't get better for still some years. Also know that when America bleeds the world is suffering. Naturally since it's without comparison the biggest market in the world! I don't have to live in America to suffer from your economic problems.)

This is why I'm saying Bush and people in Bush's administration are smart. Highly irresponsible and deluded from what is a good way to run a country, yes, but they've been able to act so insanely because they've been clever about it.

But again lemme emphasize that I do not support Bush in any way by saying this. I'm not coming to his defence. I just think it's kinda 'missing the point' by calling the guy stupid and unintelligent.

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

Smart people can make stupid decisions - and he has made his fair share again and again - and again.

Depends on what they want. If Bush gets what he wants, and doing it will cost him a lotta popularity and many people will suffer, then I'd call him clever for being able to pull it off, but a huge fucking jerk from my point of political view. Just like how Hitler came to power, and became both "prime minister" and President thus proclaiming himself as der Führer, and manipulated a whole nation and several neighbour countries into starting the biggest war in history, was a remarkably clever feat, but still the worst thing that could happen to mankind.

You know, I'm quite certain we agree on Bush, but I might just be a tad too picky about the choice of words that people make. So yeah, please forgive me for doing so

[the unforgiven]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY

ok he's ace!
for real ... like freakin A

[Argos]

Offtop:

Originally Posted by dradeel

I just think it's kinda 'missing the point' by calling the guy stupid and unintelligent.

I remember, more than 8 years back, when I heard his name for the first time, people asked what does the 'W' stand for in his middle name, and a wise man said 'Widiot'. Ever since that time, whenever Bush was in the Europian media, this statement has been proved, again and again. Well, this two-brain-cells-president will be my all time favourite among the not so small list of quite dumb US presidents in the 20th to 21st centuries.

[dradeel]

Offtop:

Originally Posted by Argos

I remember, more than 8 years back, when I heard his name for the first time, people asked what does the 'W' stand for in his middle name, and a wise man said 'Widiot'. Ever since that time, whenever Bush was in the Europian media, this statement has been proved, again and again. Well, this two-brain-cells-president will be my all time favourite among the not so small list of quite dumb US presidents in the 20th to 21st centuries.

Hahahaha... Well, he seems to be very "folksy" and kinda careless - not a representative of the intelligencia by far...

[freddie]

Click

[Talyubittu]

Originally Posted by freddie

Click

This was posted by Cools awhile back.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by Talyubittu

This was posted by Cools awhile back.

Oops. Hadn't noticed! But it's good enough to be repeated I think. :P

And this is sort of what I think of labeling Bush as "stupid". Sure, he was a shockingly bad president but then again… a lot of high-flying intellectuals wouldn't do a much better job given the chance. Labeling him as dumb or stupid, when the guy's been a twice elected leader of a super-power is just... stupid.

[Argos]

Originally Posted by freddie

And this is sort of what I think of labeling Bush as "stupid". Sure, he was a shockingly bad president but then again… a lot of high-flying intellectuals wouldn't do a much better job given the chance. Labeling him as dumb or stupid, when the guy's been a twice elected leader of a super-power is just... stupid.

Nowadays people who show stinkfingers are heroes...braaaaaavo!

[freddie]

Originally Posted by Argos

Nowadays people who show stinkfingers are heroes...braaaaaavo!

Christopher Hitchence has his own (rather arrogant and contraversial ) style of putting things across but he's a distinguished intellectual nonetheless.

[Argos]

Offtop:

Originally Posted by freddie

Christopher Hitchence has his own (rather arrogant and contraversial ) style of putting things across but he's a distinguished intellectual nonetheless.

Oh I understand. Some intellectuals raise indoctrinatingly their forefinger, others the middle finger. See me adore Christopher Wise Finger!

[Endri]

On December 1, President-elect Obama announced that Hillary Clinton would be his nominee for Secretary of State. Clinton said she was reluctant to leave the Senate, but the new position represented a "difficult and exciting adventure". The appointment will require confirmation by the full Senate and a Saxbe fix. As part of the nomination, Bill Clinton agreed to accept a number of conditions and restrictions regarding his ongoing activities and fundraising efforts for the Clinton Presidential Center and Clinton Global Initiative.

Great!

[PowerPuff Grrl]

Hot dang!

I fully concur this is a deliberate move to distract from the whole Rick Warren thing.
Mission Accomplished!

[Cats_In_The_Hat]

Obama got elected president! Sweet! Now I can make black jokes!

(I'm kidding of course, I don't know any good jokes..)

[Talyubittu]

Iowa Overturns Same-Sex Marriage Ban

DES MOINES, Iowa – Iowa's Supreme Court legalized gay marriage Friday in a unanimous and emphatic decision that makes Iowa the third state — and first in the nation's heartland — to allow same-sex couples to wed.

Iowa joins only Massachusetts and Connecticut in permitting same-sex marriage. For six months last year, California's high court allowed gay marriage before voters banned it in November.

The Iowa justices upheld a lower-court ruling that rejected a state law restricting marriage to a union between a man and woman.

The county attorney who defended the law said he would not seek a rehearing. The only recourse for opponents appeared to be a constitutional amendment, which could take years to ratify.

"We are firmly convinced the exclusion of gay and lesbian people from the institution of civil marriage does not substantially further any important governmental objective," the Supreme Court wrote.

Iowa lawmakers have "excluded a historically disfavored class of persons from a supremely important civil institution without a constitutionally sufficient justification."

To issue any other decision, the justices said, "would be an abdication of our constitutional duty."

The Iowa attorney general's office said gay and lesbian couples can seek marriage licenses starting April 24, once the ruling is considered final.

Des Moines attorney Dennis Johnson, who represented gay and lesbian couples, said "this is a great day for civil rights in Iowa."

At a news conference announcing the decision, he thanked the plaintiffs and said, "Go get married, live happily ever after, live the American dream."

Plaintiff Kate Varnum, 34, introduced her partner, Trish Varnum, as "my fiance."

"I never thought I'd be able to say that," she said, fighting back tears.

Jason Morgan, 38, said he and his partner, Chuck Swaggerty, adopted two sons, confronted the death of Swaggerty's mother and endured a four-year legal battle as plaintiffs.

"If being together though all of that isn't love and commitment or isn't family or marriage, then I don't know what is," Morgan said. "We are very happy with the decision today and very proud to live in Iowa."

In its ruling, the Supreme Court upheld an August 2007 decision by a judge who found that a state law limiting marriage to a man and a woman violates the constitutional rights of equal protection.

The Polk County attorney's office claimed that Judge Robert Hanson's ruling violated the separation of powers and said the issue should be left to the Legislature.

The case had been working its way through the courts since 2005, when Lambda Legal, a New York-based gay rights organization, filed a lawsuit on behalf of six gay and lesbian couples in Iowa.

"Today, dreams become reality, families are protected and the Iowa Constitution's promise of equality and fairness has been fulfilled," Lambda Legal attorney Camilla Taylor said.

John Logan, a sociology professor at Brown University, said Iowa's status as a largely rural, Midwest state could enforce an argument that gay marriage is no longer a fringe issue.

"When it was only California and Massachusetts, it could be perceived as extremism on the coasts and not related to core American values.

"But as it extends to states like Iowa, and as attitudes toward gay marriage have evidently changed, then people will look at it as an example of broad acceptance," Logan said.

Polk County Attorney John Sarcone said his office will not ask for the case to be reconsidered.

"Our Supreme Court has decided it, and they make the decision as to what the law is, and we follow Supreme Court decisions," Sarcone said.

Gay marriage opponents have no other legal options to appeal the case to the state or federal level because they were not parties to the lawsuit, and there is no federal issue raised in the case, Sarcone said.

Bryan English, spokesman for the Iowa Family Policy Center, a conservative group that opposes same-sex marriage, said many Iowans are disappointed with the ruling and do not want courts to decide the issue.

"I would say the mood is one of mourning right now in a lot of ways," English said. He said the group immediately began lobbying legislators "to let the people of Iowa vote" on a constitutional amendment.

"This is an issue that will define (lawmakers') leadership. This is not a side issue."

Iowa has a history of being in the forefront on social issues. It was among the first states to legalize interracial marriage and to allow married women to own property. It was also the first state to admit a woman to the bar to practice law and was a leader in school desegregation.

Todd Pettys, a University of Iowa law professor, said the state's equal protection clause on which Friday's ruling was based is worded slightly differently than the U.S. Constitution. But Iowa's language means almost "exactly the same thing."

Still, he said, it's difficult to predict whether the U.S. Supreme Court would view the issue the same way as the Iowa justices.

Linda McClain, professor at Boston University School of Law, said she doubted Iowa's ruling would be "a realistic blueprint" for the U.S. Supreme Court," particularly considering the court's conservative leadership.

Senate Majority Leader Mike Gronstal, a Democrat, said state lawmakers were unlikely to consider gay marriage legislation in this legislative session, which is expected to end within weeks.

Gronstal also said he's "not inclined" to propose a constitutional amendment during next year's session.

Iowa's Democratic governor, Chet Culver, said he would review the decision before announcing his views.

[AshMcAuliffe]

i have a friend who lives in Iowa who called me when this happened and she was like crazy ecstatic over the phone. Now she and her girlfriend can get married.
Over here it's called Civil Partnership which i despise totally! I wouldn't consider doing it until it was called marriage like it is for the heterosexuals. is it actually /recognised called Marriage over in the US or does it have a silly name like Civil Partnership that us Brits have to call it?

[Talyubittu]

I just think it's hilarious that the most unlikely state ever to actually legalize gay marriage, has actually done it. Midwestern progressiveness is where it's at baby.