Discussions on Islam and religion in general

[QueenBee]

fanoff, get a fucking life!!!

LOL I totally agree with that! You are ridiculous, fanoff!

Not ALL muslims are like that. I'm guessing the shia (?) muslims are more conservative, it's usually shia (? again, lol) women who wear cloths over their whole bodies, also convering their eyes. But the sunni muslims are less.. eh.. I don't know how to explain it, but from what I've learned they're basically a *bit* more open-minded, where the women have more rights (and are actually allowed to drive etc.). At least that's what I've learned from my muslim friends who are all sunni.

(Besides the politics and history of course, I know nothing about that! Just the 'modern' muslims)

Most of them don't pray, they don't even know how to pray, haha, but yes some of them do sometimes. One of them does it 5 times a day I believe.

I don't mean to offend, but I'm glad I'm not a muslim. Glad I'm not a christian either. Don't really see the point of being part of a religion as they're all corrupted and have slipped away from their original goals (peace on earth, love, equality).

[marina]

Originally Posted by Amber

One of the very few occasions where i actually agree with

See , Amber , that is exactly what I have been thinking yesterday myself and wanted to write about . But then I thought better not , because, you know ,it might offend someone here ... My point is -- send them packing ! They come to the country in hordes , suck on benefits and dole and health service , education and so on . and all those arranged marriages just to bring more and more relatives (is it a surprise that 16 y.o. girls pushed to marry who knows who from homeland?) . And then they have cheek to go on a street to protest and threatened people like that ! Why not to go back home, eh ?
But they never do ! Because they know only too well that they never have in a million years such a life at home . Could you picture them standing on the street back home ,protesting something and a few feets away the police busy with the parking lot??
And as for UK police ...what do you want them to do ? Honestly ? Beat them ? gas them ? lock them in prison ? That is not a police fault that country is too soft and kind, to give bread and roof and better chance in life and then being bitten on a hand which feed them !
Send them packing I say !

[haku]

Originally Posted by marina

And then they have cheek to go on a street to protest and threatened people like that !

Yes, they fail to understand that the freedom that gives them the right to protest is the same freedom that gives a cartoonist the right to caricature, you can't allow one and not the other, freedom of expression is absolute, a simple concept that totally elude them.

Originally Posted by marina

Could you picture them standing on the street back home ,protesting something and a few feets away the police busy with the parking lot??

And imagine if a group of Europeans were to protest in an Arab capital holding signs saying things like 'Arabs are scum', 'Death to all Arabs', 'Islam is a cancer'… What would the Arab onlookers and the police do? Would they just look and move on? No of course, those European protesters would be beaten to a bloody pulp and a few probably lynched on the spot, because that's how they deal with 'freedom of expression' over there.

Originally Posted by marina

Send them packing I say !

I agree with that. Like i said in another thread, it was a mistake to allow so many people from Africa and the Middle East to immigrate to Europe, they don't share our values, we don't share theirs, the cohabitation has proved to be impossible and that kind of riots emphasizes that fact.
Europeans who visit or go to work in Muslim countries are required to respect Islamic rules to the letter, but Muslims living in Europe not only refuse to understand and respect our values and laws but they actually want to impose Islamic rules to all Europeans by limiting our freedom of expression in areas that they consider 'sacred', which is of course absolutely unacceptable for Europeans.
Europeans have fought hard to acquire that freedom, we have fought against absolute monarchies, the Christian church, and all kinds of fascist regimes, and we are not about to let another religion take that away and dictate what we should or should not do, should or should not say in our own countries.
And if Muslims living in Europe really can't stand to live in countries where freedom of expression exists and where religion can be criticized because it doesn't hold any special status, then they can simply go back to Muslim countries where Islamic rule prevails and freedom is inexistent, and have a happy life over there.

[zelda05]

Originally Posted by fanoff

if only i spent my 90% of my day for being forgiven about what i did in this mortal world.

if they spent 90% of their time praying. who are protesting then?

Originally Posted by fanoff

you must pray at least once a day...

Must? eeek.

Originally Posted by Amber

And imagine if a group of Europeans were to protest in an Arab capital holding signs saying things like 'Arabs are scum', 'Death to all Arabs', 'Islam is a cancer'… What would the Arab onlookers and the police do? Would they just look and move on? No of course, those European protesters would be beaten to a bloody pulp and a few probably lynched on the spot, because that's how they deal with 'freedom of expression' over there.

Good point! The violence and holding offensive signs (such as "Europe is cancer.." etc) is utterly unacceptable.

[teeny]

Originally Posted by fanoff

ts far better than sitting all day,walking around and get drunk.what are you doing not to go to the hell?

if doing things you enjoy is against your beliefs, then why would one enjoy heaven in the first place? Wouldn't it be better at least to enjoy time on earth and then see what the hell happens afterwards? Live now - worry later I'd say..

I should really stop opening the pictures in this thread

[freddie]

I do believe there are loads of tolerant Muslims out there - in Arab countries as well as in the West. The problem though is in the fact, they're too lethargic when their religion is REALLY being mocked - like when extremists take to the streets holding up banners carrying racial slurs pointend against anything non-Muslim. THAT'S the real mockery. Anyone who trully believes in Islam should distance themselves from ignorant people like that.

I also believe that European leaders condemning these cartoons as well as network stations like CNN censoring them, when shown on the screen, is a huge mistake. They're giving up on the freedom of speech - a value we treasure in Europe for centuries - too easily. And who are they giving it up for? Moderate, reasonable Muslims? Nope. Extremists. Madmen. I find that extremely sad. We'd trade one of our basic rights because of fear.

[fanoff]

Originally Posted by Amber

Is that a threat?
That's how Muslims treat women isn't it? 'Shut your mouth or else…' :rolleyes

:
you better not talk about the thing you dont know a word of.what is Islam?answer thiis question in your mind and then answer me

Fortunately Rachel lives in Europe, a place where she can do and say whatever she wants, that's call 'freedom of expression', look it up if you're not familiar with the concept.

shame i dont live in europe and can say whatever i want too.and i wonder if she can say "What Will I Do When(and after) I Die?"

Freedom of expression is an absolute right, it's not a 'crime', but decapitating westerners or burning embassies just because you disagree with their opinion *are* crimes.

What are they expressing by insulting Muslim Messenger and muslim people?what expression does it give?

Most people in Europe don't believe in hell, try to understand that at least.

See them in the hell!

You *must* ?! What gives you the right to order people to pray? What gives you the right to impose your religious beliefs on others? People follow many different religions, and many people don't believe in any religion at all, people who wish to pray can do it as much as they want, but there is no *must*, anyone is free to do whatever they want.

i am not orderin anybody,i dont even are about what she does,i did say it for her goodness but if she isnt smart enough to understand this,i dont care about it too.you dont have the right to turn things just according to your benefit.

Again, that's called freedom of expression

.
you are fucking wrong,man.its called absoulte insult.they should have thought before they did wirte something.God didnt give us brains just not to think.

[xmad]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

I'm guessing the shia (?) muslims are more conservative, it's usually shia

If I wasnt a muslim(and shia) and if I didnt live in a muslim country then I would believe what you said.(I dont believe in any relegion but Im muslim and I dont deny this.)

Originally Posted by QueenBee

women who wear cloths over their whole bodies, also convering their eyes.

Most people in Iran are muslim and most of them are shia but in whole my life I've only 2/3 times seen a woman like that.and the reason that I remember it is that I shocked because these things isnt common at all.

Originally Posted by QueenBee

But the sunni muslims are less.. eh.. I don't know how to explain it, but from what I've learned they're basically a *bit* more open-minded, where the women have more rights (and are actually allowed to drive etc.).

Oh my God who said that.if you were right then in Iran we wouldnt allowed to drive.Well,all I can say is that WHAT A BIG LIE.(maybe that's right about arab countries but not about Iran)

[QueenBee]

"What Will I Do When(and after) I Die?"

LOL who gives a FUCK?!

Have YOU thought about it? What if NOTHING happens? That's gonna be fun for you, who wasted your whole life praying 90% of the time.

[Rachel]

LMAOOOOOOOO Queenie!!

Oh so true!!!

[fanoff]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

LOL who gives a FUCK?!

Have YOU thought about it? What if NOTHING happens? That's gonna be fun for you, who wasted your whole life praying 90% of the time.

im not spending my time like that.i said i wished to do like that.and yes,i have thought about it so many times(im sure i did it more than you did)and decided that there is heaven and hell also.What would you do if theres something like that?have you thought about it?if there is,its not gonna be fun for you!

you all better try to respect my and millions of people's beliefs and not misunderstand me.i used to respect your choices(do you understand?if not,i can tell it),and i am waiting the same from you

[haku]

fanoff, give it a rest, you're just making a fool of yourself and looking like a total fanatic.

Obviously for you Islam is the only religion and the only truth, and you are totally intolerant of anything else, you're not even willing one second to consider that there are people with other beliefs and that some people don't believe in any gods, your comment that people who do not believe will go to hell speak for itself.
So much intolerance in someone that young, that's just sad.

Originally Posted by fanoff

what expression does it give?

Freedom of expression, the right for anyone to express freely their opinion without any fear of persecution, that's the cornerstone of the European civilization, a simple concept that you obviously fail to understand (which is additional evidence that Turkey should never be allowed to join the EU as it is obvious that you people do not understand at all the basic principles of individual freedom which is the foundation of the European civilization.)

[rosh]

personally, i dont agree with the cartoons. i believe whoever published them knew it would incite the sort of chaos thats now happening.

i dont agree with muslims issuing death threats and causing as much damage as they are in retaliation. in fact all theyre doing is proving the morons who published the cartoons in the first place, right about islam and muslims. this is sad. islam is a religion of peace. too bad about the way its being portrayed by some groups of people.

for the record, my feeling is that islam is still a younger religion than christianity for example. but some pockets of muslims are not the only ones being stupid in the name of religion. it happens in other religions too. think about doctors who perform abortions who then get killed by fanatical christian anti-abortionists. its not limited to one religion. and hey, thats done in the name of god too. and yes, thats also horrible and misguided.

i found the cartoons pointless, unless all they were trying to do was incite a few riots cause hey, all muslims are the same arent they ?

well newsflash, all of us muslims arent the same. i believe in constitutional rights and everything else but if i wanted to get really childish, i could say the riots and burning of buildings is just another form of freedom of expression.

im not going to be childish though. i think both sides are wrong.

[fanoff]

Originally Posted by Amber

fanoff, give it a rest, you're just making a fool of yourself and looking like a total fanatic.

Obviously for you Islam is the only religion and the only truth, and you are totally intolerant of anything else, you're not even willing one second to consider that there are people with other beliefs and that some people don't believe in any gods, your comment that people who do not believe will go to hell speak for itself.
So much intolerance in someone that young, that's just sad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fanoff
what expression does it give?

Freedom of expression, the right for anyone to express freely their opinion without any fear of persecution, that's the cornerstone of the European civilization, a simple concept that you obviously fail to understand (which is additional evidence that Turkey should never be allowed to join the EU as it is obvious that you people do not understand at all the basic principles of individual freedom which is the foundation of the European civilization.)

you are still turning the things to your benefit.Now its the Eu thing.what would you do if someone called you gay in an insulting way and youre not gay?to you,its the freedom of expression(dont get me wrong,just an example)

im explainin it for the first time.one time i decided that theres no god but tried to think objectively,then understood the truth by myself.noone told me what to do.i said i dont care about people's beliefs or anything else.i learned to be tolerant to people but if they are using this against me,its the point that i get mad.and youre intoleant to me(about The Eu thing)you dont see how Turkey's changing.just say what you think,by not realising the truth

[rosh]

Originally Posted by Amber

I agree with that. Like i said in another thread, it was a mistake to allow so many people from Africa and the Middle East to immigrate to Europe, they don't share our values, we don't share theirs, the cohabitation has proved to be impossible and that kind of riots emphasizes that fact.

i have a few problems with this statement. a lot of these people wouldnt have bothered immigrating had imperialist europeans not taken it upon themselves to invade their countries to rob, rape and pillage

i do wish different cultures would try to integrate more. its happened here in cape town where you have huge groups of different cultures intermingling, not keeping to themselves and actually just integrating so well that lots of people just get along. you still get the ones who refuse to try, but theyre in the minority.

i think the viewpoint of the people emigrating to different european countries is that "this is the country that took so much away from my country by force, i will go there for a better life, while clinging desperately to a way of life that has been a part of my family and culture for generations"

they want better lives, but they want it on their terms. but yes, integration is key if we're all gonna try and get along with each other.

[xmad]

rosh,good point!!

[Rachel]

Originally Posted by fanoff

you are still turning the things to your benefit.Now its the Eu thing.what would you do if someone called you gay in an insulting way and youre not gay?to you,its the freedom of expression(dont get me wrong,just an example)

That just proves what an intollerant little boy you are.

Being called gay is not an insult, just as being called straight isn't.

Fucking grow up!!!

[QueenBee]

(im sure i did it more than you did)

How can you be sure of that? You have no idea of who I am, and you don't know what I'm thinking about (and how often).

and decided that there is heaven and hell also.What would you do if theres something like that?have you thought about it

You see, YOU decided that there is a heaven and hell. And you HAVE thought that there might not be. But in the long run, you decided that there is.

I decided that there is not. And yes I have thought about it, too.

you all better try to respect my and millions of people's beliefs and not misunderstand me.i used to respect your choices(do you understand?if not,i can tell it),and i am waiting the same from you

How did I not respect it? I think I respected yours and you respected mine back. I just basically repeated what you said, except I said the opposite. It was still an opinion.

[fanoff]

isnt it intolerant?do i know wrong?intollerant,not sure about it.i know its not an insult,i think theres a misunderstanding here,i said called you gay in an insulting way?i hope you did understand.

[xmad]

Originally Posted by Rachel

That just proves what an intollerant little boy you are.

How did it prove that he is intollerant??
He doesnt seem intollerant.