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Old 13-04-2006, 14:27   #41
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I understand and respect migration, even for economical reasons. I have nothing against it.

But I will be frank, I'm absolutely upset by people who chose to migrate to a country and spend their time in treating it as a sh*t and are, in a constant way, agressive towards this chosen country.
Nothing new...told it before.

Last edited by forre; 13-04-2006 at 14:54. Reason: Grammar only
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Old 13-04-2006, 15:05   #42
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Well, i've said it before as well, i am actually opposed to any more immigration from outside the EU, but EU citizens moving within the EU is a totally different matter, they are not 'immigrants', there are no internal borders and EU citizens are free to live and work wherever they want, and i have absolutely no problem with that, i welcome it, the more EU people will be mixed, the better.

And of course the level of life (and therefore prices, salaries, etc.) is lower in the new 8 eastern EU members, but it won't last forever! This is a transitional period and the new EU members will be brought to EU standards progressively, the developement in those countries is already going at a fast pace. The same thing happened when Ireland, Spain or Portugal joined the EU over 20 years ago, those countries had a much lower level of life than older EU members (and Spain and Portugal, just like the new eastern EU members, just went out of dictatorial regimes), and believe me (i was there!) some people were saying the same thing about those countries than what some people are saying today about the new eastern EU members.
But 20 years later, those countries are totally on a par with the rest of the EU, and the same thing will happen with the new eastern EU members. In 20 years, Poland or Hungary will be just as rich as any other average EU member and prices/salaries will have been leveled with the rest of the EU.
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Old 13-04-2006, 15:10   #43
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I'm afraid it's fruitless dispute. Migration can be blessing for someone and curse for others , it depends who migtrates , where , why....
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Old 13-04-2006, 15:14   #44
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with all due respect to your knowledge haku, Ireland joined the EU ( then EC ) back in 1973, while Spain and Portugal in 1986...knew there was a bit of a gap there
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Old 13-04-2006, 15:16   #45
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Quote:
But I will be frank, I'm absolutely upset by people who chose to migrate to a country and spend their time in treating it as a sh*t and are, in a constant way, agressive towards this chosen country.
Same here, it disgusts me.
Honestly though, most people like that are from outside of Europe.
Hmm, maybe I'm a bit of a racist, then.
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Old 13-04-2006, 15:36   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
most people like that are from outside of Europe.
I dont know maybe you're right or maybe not.
Migration??why not.I will do my best not to go back to my country.people like me have no right in my country.All they can do is just hiding everything.As far as I know almost all my friends are trying to move somewhere else.
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Old 13-04-2006, 15:46   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasfcuk
Anouk, do you read what you say? I mean seriously ... somehow it is really hard for me to feel sympathy for you as many of my friends back home are making something similar to 100-200 euro a month TOTAL (meaning prior to spending a cent of it) and a lot of the prices aren't that different from EU prices (of course it is cheaper in general, but the ratio is not proportionate). Oh yeah, and my grandma's pension is something like 40 euro for the WHOLE month ... thank god she lives with my aunt and uncle ...
Yes I do read what I write down.. Maybe you should try thinking outside of your little box, and stop trying to go against everything I say, because there is truth to what I'm trying to get across.. Yeah, we do make more money here in Holland, but I have to pay close to 150 euro's a month just for insurance!! I know about minimum wages in other countries, but the price of life isn't as high over there as it is here.. If I were to move out, I'd have to pay around 500 euro's for a crappy one bedroom appartment, a month!! So yeah, we do make a lot more than let's say in Czech Republic, but its not like that in the end there's all that much left.. We struggle to make our ends meet aswell..

About the pension - by the time I am that old and get my pension, there won't be anything left because the government gives it to immigrants who don't feel like working..

Quote:
you didnt say what kind of work you were looking for anyway ... someone mentioned earlier, lots of the immigrants get the not so 'desired' positions ... and if it is a job for which qualifications and education/experience is required, well, whose fault is it that you arent matching the criteria? The survival of the fittest .... .
I shouldn't have to matter what job I'm looking for.. It's none of your damn business anyway what I do in my private life.. But because of immigrants and stuff, many Dutch people lose their jobs because we're more expensive that foreigners.. It's not just me I'm talking about..
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Old 13-04-2006, 15:55   #48
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well, Anouk, heil Dutch! Kill all the fucking immigrants and get rid of your problem then! that's about all i can say ....

oh and lastly: i paid the same for insurance when i was self employed the last couple of years and not to mention that for 500 euro a month you can get JACK SHIT where I live (aka the San Frarncisco Bay Area), so concider yourself 'lucky' One bedroom apartments start over a 1000
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Old 13-04-2006, 16:00   #49
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I dont know maybe you're right or maybe not.
I think it's a difference in cultures.

Also the fact that many people, at least where I live, who came from outside of Europe came from very bad conditions. For example they had just survived a war, and they don't get any help either to fix their emotional problems. Not so strange that they get very aggressive. Suppressed emotions, I think.

But of course there are exceptions, some people are just dumb. Some people from outside of Europe are great, too.

Quote:
I shouldn't have to matter what job I'm looking for..
Do you actually expect to be able to get every single job out there? I mean, I know what you were trying to say, that immigrants even get the simple jobs that "should" go to the Dutch people because it's their country. Somehow the immigrants survive on even a lower pay than you would want... And I surely don't hear them complaining.

I hope you will get a good education, and least that's what I'm planning to do... 'cause I personally don't want to be in a competition over lousy jobs for the rest of my life.
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Old 13-04-2006, 16:15   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasfcuk
well, Anouk, heil Dutch! Kill all the fucking immigrants and get rid of your problem then! that's about all i can say ....

oh and lastly: i paid the same for insurance when i was self employed the last couple of years and not to mention that for 500 euro a month you can get JACK SHIT where I live (aka the San Frarncisco Bay Area), so concider yourself 'lucky' One bedroom apartments start over a 1000
Well aren't you Americans just so special then Isn't is heil America?!

BTW - Heil Dutch? That doesn't make sense.. So what are you worshipping? Our language? Because thats Dutch.. The people? Because if so, you should say "heil the Dutch" and my country is Holland or the Netherland, in that case it would be "heil Holland" or "heil the Netherlands".. So you'll get it right next time


I don't live in Amsterdam, but I'm pretty sure you have to pay around 1000 euro's for an appartment there aswell That's the way it is in large cities like that, in case you never noticed..


Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
Do you actually expect to be able to get every single job out there? I mean, I know what you were trying to say, that immigrants even get the simple jobs that "should" go to the Dutch people because it's their country. Somehow the immigrants survive on even a lower pay than you would want... And I surely don't hear them complaining.
When did I say that? Nothing I said even implied that I expected to get any job I wanted

For your information.. There is this campagne going on so that foreign people will recieve the same pay as we do.. So they have been complaining, in the contrary to what you've said, otherwise it wouldn't be such an issue right? I actually do hope that it'll be enforced so they'll make the same amount as we do, if so, there is no reason to hire foreign people because they're not cheaper anymore..
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Old 13-04-2006, 16:33   #51
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BTW, CAF isn't American
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Old 13-04-2006, 16:39   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anouk
Well aren't you Americans just so special then Isn't is heil America?!
I dont know, I am not offcially American yet - I am one of those Eastern Europeans that you wanna get rid of .. an immigrant, taking all the American jobs and so on ...

Quote:
BTW - Heil Dutch? That doesn't make sense.. So what are you worshipping? Our language? Because thats Dutch.. The people? Because if so, you should say "heil the Dutch" and my country is Holland or the Netherland, in that case it would be "heil Holland" or "heil the Netherlands".. So you'll get it right next time
yep, I will thanks. Heil DUTCH!

Quote:
I don't live in Amsterdam ...
that much I figured ... ooops, city people ignorance ... it's ok, i was a village girl for a while myself, I know how it is, I am sympathetic
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Old 13-04-2006, 17:01   #53
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Offtop:
thanks qb. and spy - its good to come back to your comments. on another note, san fran has one of the most inflated real estate markets in the US so it's understandable it's more expensive than many cities.


question:
when it comes to migration, the topic is better discussed between countries and people of eastern europe, is it not?

i mean, it is only more of a problem there because the countries are small and next to each other. that is, if i were living in france and moved to spain, that would be my immigrating to spain. i dont know if i'd say i migrated to spain from france. that just sounds weird. but i guess it's all semantics anyway.
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Old 13-04-2006, 17:07   #54
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Offtop:
Quote:
thanks qb. and spy - its good to come back to your comments.
Thank you, miss


Quote:
the topic is better discussed between countries and people of eastern europe, is it not?
Sure but anyone is free to give their opinion of course.

So Anouk, tell me now, would you really want to work as a construction builder? Or as a cleaner?
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Old 13-04-2006, 17:13   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
if i were living in france and moved to spain, that would be my immigrating to spain. i dont know if i'd say i migrated to spain from france.
That would be just *moving* because both countries are EU member states (and in the Schengen zone and the Euro zone on top of it) so there is absolutely no border of any kind between France and Spain, a French person can move to Spain to live and work as easily as to any other French regions, no difference whatsoever, no formalities of any kind.
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Last edited by haku; 13-04-2006 at 17:39.
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Old 13-04-2006, 17:34   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
Offtop:
on another note, san fran has one of the most inflated real estate markets in the US so it's understandable it's more expensive than many cities.
you wouldnt want to say 'San Fran' around here it doesnt matter about the market, it is the use of selective language here ..

Quote:
question:
when it comes to migration, the topic is better discussed between countries and people of eastern europe, is it not?
what do you mean by that?
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Old 13-04-2006, 17:36   #57
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I thought she meant that she has personally not experienced that up close (not migration, but people working in other countries but their own for less money etc.).. I guess I misunderstood.
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Old 13-04-2006, 18:06   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
I thought she meant that she has personally not experienced that up close (not migration, but people working in other countries but their own for less money etc.).. I guess I misunderstood.
maybe, but why only Eastern Europe? That applies to most Europe, and not to mention she picked two of the largest western neighbording countries as an example.
I also wanted to add in response to haku, that even though people in EU can move around and get jobs anywhere they want, there is still sort of 'migrartion' process involved as the EU countries are still pretty culturally diverse. EU does not deal with culture and identity. I just came back from Portugal and Spain and out of all the places I've been in EU (Czech R., Germany, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, France, Italy, Sweden, Spain and Portugal - just as a comparision) Portugal reminded me SO MUCH more of Bulgaria than any of the other ones, even Czech R., which felt a lot more westernized. Portugal is South europe and culturally i think it is easier to divide Europe in North-South, rather than East-West - meaninig more similarities. Of course i've only visited those countries, so my impressions arent of a person who's actually lived there
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Old 13-04-2006, 18:42   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasfcuk
that much I figured ... ooops, city people ignorance ... it's ok, i was a village girl for a while myself, I know how it is, I am sympathetic
I'm born and raised in the heart of a city, thank you.. Just not as big as Amsterdam.. So don't go throwing things around you know nothing about, especially about me


Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
So Anouk, tell me now, would you really want to work as a construction builder?
Construction worker? Sure, what needs to be build? I loved lego's when I was a kid, I was always building houses, lol But I can't, my back is seriously messed up and I can't do heavy work..
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Old 13-04-2006, 18:45   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anouk
I'm born and raised in the heart of a city, thank you.. Just not as big as Amsterdam..
Offtop:
you know what they say, either from the capital or a provincialist, regardless of the size of the place
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