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U.S. Soldiers used as propaganda.....the horrors of WAR...


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Old 25-03-2003, 01:32   #1
KooReeT KooReeT is offline
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U.S. Soldiers used as propaganda.....the horrors of WAR...

Let me start this off by sayin that personaly, I don't really agree with the politics of this war. But then again, don't we all have mixed emotions?
One of my reasons for being a lil anit-war was to avoid something like this to happen.....Now Iraq has POW's and they are using them and dead soldiers as propaganda. I understand the fact that they show the true horrors of war but not like this.......not like this...
I hope everyone agrees that war is ugly. And at the end, nobody really wins a war. But deep inside we all know war is almost always unavoidable. It is part of human nature since man spoke his first word.
But its also part of human nature to fight for what we believe in....
Whether it be if your fighting for land that was stolen from you, freedom, justice, or taking some dictator down with itchy trigger fingers, I respect you. Because people will fight for what they believe in even if the odds are against a tank and all you have is a shank in your hand and you still don't give a f**k!


"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events."

-Sir Winston Churchill

So whats going to happen when Coalition Forces march into Baghdad? You got Saddam who's gonna feel like he's gonna be backed into a corner. A tight corner. He's probably goin to start feeling that lil thing called "desperation". And what does desperation lead to? Drastic Measures.
Whats to stop him from giving some little 12-year old an AK-47 and tell him, "Go defend your home". Of course god forbid this ever happens but I think its safe to say we're dealing with a maniac here.

Both sides will fight for what they believe in but the our Coaltion soldiers have more than that. Whether they are fighting for their country, their flag, their opinions, at the end, it won't matter if your a U.S. soldier, British, or Australian we will fight for each other...

If Saddam wants a war lets give him one!
Lets not let our soldiers die in vain or be used as propaganda!
Lets win this war and come home safe!
Remember your brothers and remember what they died for!

To our soldiers out there let me finish this off by a quote from Shakespeare-

"Cry 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war!;"
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Old 25-03-2003, 02:29   #2
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I agree that this is sad for us..

But it was what was to be expected. War has always been terrible, and this didn't come as shock. Sadaam, well I don't want to get too far into this, but he is a brilliant military leader. Sure, he should have surrendered, but all he is trying to do is make the best of a bad situation and most off all make the USA look bad...
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Old 25-03-2003, 04:14   #3
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KooReeT ........

Nicely said man, I agree wit basically everything you said. I just wish this war would come to an end as soon as possible, but until then, as an American I support our troops that are over there risking their lives for us, and our presidents decisions. Im really not for war at all, but sometimes war is inevitable. Iraq and its leader have been decietfull and have been warned, now after years of deciet, America is fed up and will now take Saddam out.

I just hope our troops stay safe as well as our allies. And hope that the world is a better, safer place after this war.
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Old 25-03-2003, 04:57   #4
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Thanks for bringing this up.
I also support our troops. In fact, there are somethings I can't stand, and one of those things is an obnoxious American who protests the war in the wrong place and time (*cough cough Mike Moore)...

I don't mind protesters against the war, I'm glad their expressing freedom of speech, but sometimes you gotta hold yourself back. There were troops watching the Oscars, imagine how they felt when they heard disapproval of their actions.

Did anyone else hear that broadcast on NPR about the Gulf War veteran, who said he never felt more alone than when he was fighting? He said he just had this unbearable loneliness, he felt so bad and just wanted to go home and be with the wife and kids. It got even worse. Then one day he recieved a letter from an elementary school child which said how much he appreciated the soldier for fighting for their freedom, and how much he thanked him and that he hoped the soldier got back safely. After that, the soldier didn't feel alone for the rest of his time served.

So what I'm getting at is we need more of these people. We need support behind these troops.. The war has started already so at least support your country and the human lives at risk..
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Old 25-03-2003, 14:15   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by goku
In fact, there are somethings I can't stand, and one of those things is an obnoxious American who protests the war in the wrong place and time (*cough cough Mike Moore)...
But Michael Moore never critisized the troops out there. He said the elections, the president, and the war were all fictitious, but he never said the troops were. I don't think anybody would say that.

He is rather obnoxious, always has been. But I have a soft spot for people who exercise their freedom of speech at times when it wouldn't be appreciated. But yeah you're right, the Oscars isn't a time to preach but to thank those who have helped you win instead.
Oh well.

Last edited by PowerPuff Grrl; 25-03-2003 at 16:16.
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Old 25-03-2003, 19:43   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by goku
...American who protests the war in the wrong place and time (*cough cough Mike Moore)...
So when is the right place, and time to protest? Now that the war has started are we to be quite? If the war was wrong before it started, isn't it still wrong now? Moore has made a career out of in-your-face confrontations with those in power. His statement at the Oscars is completely in character.

Quote:
Originally posted by goku
There were troops watching the Oscars, imagine how they felt when they heard disapproval of their actions.
The attack was aimed at Bush, not the soldiers. You underestimate the soldiers if you think they can't make this distinction. I had a friend in the US marines. He told me that as a marine, he couldn't ask for a better president than Ronald Reagan, but as a citizen, Reagan scared the hell out of him. My father was in the German army in WWII. He expressed a similar feeling: his country was at war, so he fought (that, and he was drafted at age 14). Not because he supported the Nazi party, but because he supported his country.

Now that the war is started, we have no choice but to see it through. I support our troops, and sincerely hope they can finish this as safely, and quickly as possible. I do not support President Bush, nor his action leading up to it. No matter how it turns out, we won't be measurably safer, and the US' reputaion will have been diminished.
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Old 25-03-2003, 19:54   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by goku
Thanks for bringing this up.
I also support our troops. In fact, there are somethings I can't stand, and one of those things is an obnoxious American who protests the war in the wrong place and time (*cough cough Mike Moore)...
No ofense but t.A.T.u. forum is one of those places too. While I think people should express their feelings about war (in support or in oposition) this is not the place and will likely provoke mud slinging contest and insults between those pro-war and those against it.

But topics like this are something moderators should decide on.

Echoed: This thread will remain open as long as the discussions remain civil and no "mud slinging" takes place. Thank you for your thoughts and concerns. I'm sure we can all be level-headed, yes? ^_^'
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Last edited by Echoed; 25-03-2003 at 22:26.
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Old 26-03-2003, 19:26   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by luxxi
Echoed: This thread will remain open as long as the discussions remain civil and no "mud slinging" takes place. Thank you for your thoughts and concerns. I'm sure we can all be level-headed, yes? ^_^'
As I said, it's up to moderators to decide. I just hate it when people use various forums to express their views that have nothing to do with main subject of those forums (and this isn't the only forum that this is happening on).
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Old 27-03-2003, 01:11   #9
KooReeT KooReeT is offline
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Well no offense but other General posts don't really have to do with Tatu either. Just alot of everyday things. I just wanted to express my thoughts on current events and hear some opinions. Know what I'm sayin?

Last edited by KooReeT; 27-03-2003 at 06:31.
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Old 27-03-2003, 01:50   #10
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Well, it seems that you guys liked that post?

You were right, in that I was wrong in the criticism of Moore against the troops instead of Moore and the president..

I just think it's wrong for people to not support our soldiers out there, especially since the war has begun. There is even news of a very large force clashing with the Coalition Forces, and the battle will be huge.

I want to thank the troops for fighting for our country and freedom, and I appreciate them for so willingly putting their lives on the line. I also send out my concerns to the POW's and the casualties so far..
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Old 27-03-2003, 06:26   #11
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Well....

this is the general forum, and i think topics like this are ok. I mean lets ppl express feelings openly. I mean most of the ppl here are civilized and respect one another opinions.
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Old 27-03-2003, 21:35   #12
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Quote:
I want to thank the troops for fighting for our country and freedom
and would you please tell me who and how actually endangered your country and the freedom in general?
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Old 28-03-2003, 00:14   #13
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The US military is an all volunteer army. They have each chosen to defend their country, and to put their lives at risk to do so. That is worthy of praise in any soldier, in any army.

Where this breaks down is that to do the above, they have also sworn to follow orders. It is those orders that I have a problem with, as do many.

I'm still waiting on a satisfactory explaination on who and how. As for freedom, there has been a steady erosion of freedoms in the US since 9/11.
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Old 28-03-2003, 00:52   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charles
The US military is an all volunteer army. They have each chosen to defend their country, and to put their lives at risk to do so. That is worthy of praise in any soldier, in any army.
Are you saying that draft armies are worthy of less praise because they are forced to serve?
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Old 28-03-2003, 02:05   #15
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Charles

Quote:
As for freedom, there has been a steady erosion of freedoms in the US since 9/11.
what erosion of freedom in the us are you talking about???
does it by any chance include iraq? i don't think so...
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Old 28-03-2003, 02:26   #16
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Perhaps Charles meant the freedom of many Arab-Americans being racially profiled.
Or perhaps the Government's new policy to have unlimited access to emails, telephone conversations, etc...
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Old 28-03-2003, 05:36   #17
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I was referring to freedom of fear, and freedom of prejudice..

But I don't care if the government taps our phones etc.. It's their job to keep our country safe...
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Old 28-03-2003, 20:41   #18
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Guess I should make some clarifications. Are draft armies less worth of praise? That depends on the behavior and actions of the soldier, not on their status as draftee. A volunteer soldier has already demonstrated something that is worthy of praise.

The US government now has increased power to perform wiretaps and surveillance than it had before. Some of the changes are aimed at updating wiretap laws to the age of the Internet. This is basically good, but the above can now be done mostly without a court order. This opens the door to fishing expeditions. Librarians now must turn over the list of book you check out upon request, and they cannot discuss that they have done so. The same applies to bookstores. This opens the door to the criminalization thought if what you read can be used as circumstantial evidence against you. The use of military tribunals when someone could be tried in a federal court is another example. The accused has far fewer protections and assurances of due process in a military court. Recent reports from the Justice Department indicate plans (or at least the desire) to allow summary revocation of US citizenship. Once you cease to be a US citizen, you loose most of your rights to due process. One program that was scrapped would have had mailmen, and meter readers act as spies to keep tabs on people, and report on suspicious behavior.

After 9/11, various US agencies (police, and FBI) started using racial profiling on Muslim, and Arab Americans. When this has been targeted at other minorities, courts have usually ruled it to be illegal.

When a prominent US politician declared it a diplomatic failure when we started attacking Iraq, he was all but accused of treason. When we become a society that tolerates and condones the suppression of free speech, then our freedoms are diminished. Take a look at the effects of McCarthyism in the 1950s. Just the accusation of being in any way, shape, or form associated with communists could destroy someone's life.

Yes, it is the government's duty to keep our country safe, but at what cost? One of the fundamental rights in the US is supposed to be privacy. How much erosion of privacy, free speech, and due process is safety worth?

Luxxi - you're right. This isn't really the place for this discussion. I appear to be the main provocateur here as well, and for that I apologize.
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Old 28-03-2003, 21:06   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charles
Guess I should make some clarifications. Are draft armies less worth of praise? That depends on the behavior and actions of the soldier, not on their status as draftee. A volunteer soldier has already demonstrated something that is worthy of praise.
Wait till next June and then go to Normandy when they will celebrate 60th anniversary of Overlord and tell Allied veterans there that they aren't as praiseworthy because they were forced to hit the beaches. I'm saying wait till next year because you already missed 60th anniversary of Stalingrad battle.

Anybody who defends his countrs (or ideals) and is risking his/her life in doing so is worth of greatest praise. Volonteer or draftee.

As for volunteers who join because they can't find anything better and are in only for the money..... you decide.
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Old 28-03-2003, 21:18   #20
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Charles didn't mean that because someone is a volunteer that they deserve MORE praise than a draftee. He was simply stating that the soldier who is a volunteer has shown that he is willing to die for whatever cause. A draftee has the same amount of honor when he goes to war. Unless the draftee because a deserter. Therein lies the difference. There is no shame in being a draftee, to the contrary, if one has gone to war to defend a good cause, then they are just as worthy as the next man.

As for money. There's always money involved. But that isn't really the subject. There was no comment of offence towards draftees. ^_^' There was simply a statement that volunteers show a certain amount of courage to join the ranks of the army, just as draftees show courage in the face of adversity to defend their country.

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