Religion in Public Schools

[Khartoun2004]

Ok I have to write a paper for my government class on Religion in schools and I was curious what everyones opinions are.

Personally I'm against any religion based on the fact that its impossible to include everyone and religion always causes problems. Epsecially for the GLBT community, also kids get harassed about enough crap as it is. Why add something else to the laundry list? Another reason is (this might just be my Unitarianism surfacing) I feel all religions are valid and true and its up to the individual to decide what to believe or not believe. Religion in schools would just add pressure to conform with the majority and that's never a good thing. There's also the whole, its completely unconstitutional.

[madeldoe]

I wouldnt agree to religion in schools. But you must ellaborate on what you mean by 'religion in schools'.

If school districts where to include religion..which one? Theres far too many to pool into one school, not only would it confuse the kids it would segregate them even more. And choosing just one religion would be as worse. but if that were to happen..it wouldnt be so public now would it?
Even if for some miracle something like this were to happen, i have no doubts the us government would be on their ass trying to remove it. Obviously because its unconstitutional.

But dont get me wrong, im not against religion at all. I feel it is necessary for people to have something to believe in. Which unfortunatelyis the main basis for most peoples 'faith', it provides for a sense of base and guidelines to live one's life by.

Anyhow ill just stop..cuz i dont think im making much sense

[freddie]

Religion even by it's definition doesn't belong to schools. Teaching kinds about ambigous dogmatic beliefs that were re-translated, missunderstood, missquoted and abused for power is a bad idea. Religion (I'm talking about the organized religion) has no place in an institution where they should learn things that can actualy be proven or disproven.

I'm not talking religion shouldn't be though as a historical fact... but never, ever as a dogmatic truth. That's extremely dangerous. Comparable to the situation when they thought us marxsism here in schools during the communist reign. It was the communist goverment forcing their ideology while, there are clerical forces pushing theirs in present time. No difference. The ideologies are different, but the name of the game remains the same. The struggle for power.

[madeldoe]

Well thats europe though, where in some countries, a certain religion is already deep rooted through in the country in itself.

Maybe its just my ignorance speaking here, but i dont understand why theres such an overwhelming amount of resentment for religion. I mean i can understand the cons people have stated..but like everything in life it has its pros as well and vice versa.. I myself have problems with my own religion, but ive learned to just take the overall meaning to heart. yes some words can be mistranslated, but the overall message is still there.

[freddie]

Originally posted by nataku
Well thats europe though, where in some countries, a certain religion is already deep rooted through in the country in itself.

Maybe its just my ignorance speaking here, but i dont understand why theres such an overwhelming amount of resentment for religion. I mean i can understand the cons people have stated..but like everything in life it has its pros as well and vice versa.. I myself have problems with my own religion, but ive learned to just take the overall meaning to heart. yes some words can be mistranslated, but the overall message is still there.

Belive me. Relilgion is deep rooted in countries in Europe as well. In the Estern Europe even more so since the church is enjoying it's new found political freedom.

I myself have nothing against religion. It can be a good thing when used properly as an addition to the teachings on morality. HOWEVER it has been proven in the past that religion can be dangerous when it's aboused or followed in an ortodox manner. Women and children were used as live shilds in the name of god! In thename of god that should be about love and understanding!! I have nothing against the teachings of Jesus, or Budha, or Mohamend nor Dalai Lama. But I have much against people who can't understand that they often spoke in metaphores. People who follow religion dogmaticaly as if it were something literal about their lives writen in sacred books. But it's not! It teaches you about a way of life, not about rituals and hateful prejudices, eventhough that's what some take out of religion nowadays. THAT's why it's dangerous.

[Khartoun2004]

I'm talking specificly about prayer, even if it's non-secular.

nataku, you're absolutely right about it being impossible to include all religions simple because their are way to many of them.

I think the real reason religion should be excluded from schools is that education is a matter of the state, not the church. The US has seperation of church and state for a reason and I think it should be keep that way. I shudder to think what would happen if church and state meshed together... not good, not good at all.

[Pop!]

*shudder* I remember when i had RE (Religious Education) in primary school. I also remember being bullied by the minister because I didn't fully believe in God. He took me and my friends on the 'excursion' from Hell and took us to a graveyard at like 1 in the morning. And the next week, on another 'excursion' from Hell, he tried to simulate Hell and made my friends crawl thru dogfood and have dead cow tongues dragged across their faces blindfolded. Thank goodness I was 'sick' that day. This truly happened to. I ended up crying and running away and having to get my parents to make him stay away from me the next week after that.
And that, my friends, is why i'm against religious education in public schools.
AHH shit! A spider just bit me.

[Kappa]

I'm totally against Religion in ANY kind of School. When I was in 6th grade, I was taken to a supposedly laical (nonreligious) school, because my other school didn't have a junior high. I liked my 6th grade teacher, and she would have been perfect too if a little accident wouldn't have happened.

EVERY Monday, the students rose and prayed the Our Father. I didn't know the words to it so I kept sitting down, but I was forced to stand, put my hands together, and mumble something I didn't know. My mom came storming into the school and told them that she had taken me there because it supposedly was nonreligious, and since that day, every Monday I was taken out of my classroom for them to pray without me. :/

[spyretto]

Well, I remember RE in my Greek school quite vividly. You had to memorize all sorts of dogmatic crap ( well, this is what school is in Greece, you memorize things ) helps a lot if you have photographic memory ) And it went all the way to the last year

[haku]

I'm against it but i'm French, that comes with the nationality i guess.

Here in France religion and religious teaching is forbidden in public schools as well as in any other public institution.

The French Republic is strictly laic, no politician would dare to mention their religious beliefs publicly, that would be the end of their career.

[PowerPuff Grrl]

Yes, I am against incorporating religion into education in public schools. I do believe, however, that every individual has the right to practise his/her religion in any public setting and that no government should have the authority to tell you otherwise.

I not too impressed at what France is doing; banning any article of clothing that indicates a religious preference.

[haku]

Originally posted by PowerPuff Grrl
I not too impressed at what France is doing; banning any article of clothing that indicates a religious preference.

In fact it's not new, it has always been the case since the origin of the Republic. It's just that before it was a "mutual understanding", and now pressures from various extremist groups are forcing us to pass a new law to make things even clearer.

All religious leaders are supporting the new law. The large majority of French people, regardless of faith, are supporting it as well and believe that religious practice should be kept in the private sphere (your home or a dedicated cult building).

The French attitude toward religion is rooted into the French revolution, which was done against an absolute monarchy but also against an abusive almighty itolerant Catholic clergy. The founders of the French Republic made it strictly laic to protect other religions (and people with no religion) from the intolerance of the Catholic Church.

[Khartoun2004]

Wow! Haku I didn't know that about France. See and my mom said tatu was a waste of time. Why whatever was she thinking? I learn something new on this forum everyday.

I'd concider moving to France until that moron Bush is out of office, but I don't know French so I don't think it would work.

[Charles]

In the 1970s, the state of Connecticut imposed a minute of silence to be observed in homeroom at the start of each school day. The idea was to permit those who wished to pray to have a freedom to do so. This was a rather thinly veiled attempt to put prayer in the public school, and officially sanction it. For those who did not include prayer or meditation in their belief system, this was a meaningless activity imposed on them for the sake of someone else's religious beliefs.

My point is that there is no middle ground that can keep everyone happy. If you include anything religious, you risk offending or infringing the rights of those who don't believe the same way. If you don't include anything religious, you are still in conflict because you will be viewed as prohibiting the freedom to worship as one chooses. Witness the question of whether the EU should formally recognize the Christian nature of Europe in the EU constitution.

As a point of logic, not all religions can be "valid and true" since there are at least two religions that hold that they are the only correct religion, and thus all others are wrong. I do believe that there is some merit in virtually all of them.

You might want to dig through a library to see what you can find on just why the authors of the US constitution chose a separation of church and state.

I can think of two quick reasons for it. First, the authors saw the power struggle between the secular states of Europe, and the various churches (Roman Catholic vs. Protestant vs. state) and wanted to avoid that. Second, by allowing a merger of church and state, the state then gives its sanction to that one religion. This in turn disenfranchises all other religions. Not a few people came to the colonies (it wasn't the US yet) specifically because they couldn't practice their religion in their native country. This is almost Zen: to allow more religious freedom you must prohibit religion.