Unofficial site of group TATU


Unofficial forum of group TATU
Go Back   Unofficial forum of group TATU General Forum Politics and Science


Opinions on the expression of chauvinism, racism, homophobia, etc.


ReplyPost New Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 27-04-2006, 21:34   #21
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
So madeldoe
I'm just trying to get people to see where madeldoe is coming from.
I understand where she's coming from and I completely supoport her right to stand up for her personal religious beleifs if she felt they were being challenged. With valid arguments though. Not requests to close down the thread, with arguments that some other thread was closed down for identical reasons (which as I said, is not the case).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
In any case, that's the same reasoning Lux used. So I guess the closure of satirical threads can be determined by how funny and how well comprehensive they are rather than how offensive they may be to some.

I'm no lawyer but uh, that's setting up bad precedence there.
Wait... Lux said what? Did she imply her thread was satirical in any way? I'm sorry but I don't see any satirical or even humorous aspect in her thread. It was just a collection of absurd (mostly factually incorrect, sometimes completely subjective) statements which were presented as fact. No satiric value in that whatsoever, is there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
INot that I'm saying it should be locked, but that we shouldn't be deciding what thread needs to be closed based on how many people are offended, or at least turned off, by it. If half of us, or even a quarter of us were as Christian as madeldoe would this thread would be closed too?
I tend to think so.
I don't get it. Why do you think so? There are a bunch of males here and none of them had nothing whatsoever to do with the thread's closing. No one even complained about it. It was closed down mainly cause of it's absurdity and I didn't see any indication from lux stating it should all be percieved as a joke. Not even a subtle one, just said it's her own personal opinion while presenting it as a well-known fact.
~~~~~~~~~~~
freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ]

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2006, 21:58   #22
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
pie crust
 
QueenBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792

As far as I remember, there *were* some anti-jew statements on this forum, and they were dealt with. I don't understand what you mean (specifically).

Saying that nobody does anything to deal with such things as discrimination, only when enough people "care" or feel offended, is kind of like a slap in the face for a moderator, since they try to keep the forum as clean as possible, and free of such things (I too am a moderator but take no credit for keeping things in order as I haven't been moderating the General Forum for so long).
~~~~~~~~~~~
Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2006, 22:55   #23
PowerPuff Grrl PowerPuff Grrl is offline
The Dream is Over, :~(
 
PowerPuff Grrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 682

Last couple of sentences from this post in the thread.
I took it as a satire but I guess Lux has the final say.

The thread though didn't have to be closed down by males and I doubt any even had the chance to post in it seeing as how it was closed down real fast. Because there are a bunch of males it is more likely for people (male or female) to consider them than to consider, for example, the one lonely Kiwi so as to prevent a flame-war, a pre-emptive lock-down if you will. Because there aren't that many Kiwis, people wouldn't know what exactly offends a Kiwi so if something comes up that's anti-Kiwi nobody would recognize it as being offensive.

We as Athiests may not recognize this joke as being anti-Christian because regarding this site we don't interact too much, if at all, with devout Christians. Even when we talk about Christianity or about religion, it is never in a positive light.

PS: Queenbee, my posts aren't meant to be a harsh critiques of the moderation (to which I have stated earlier have been doing an excellent job in the past couple of years). I'm just saying that it is really hard to notice one person's objection to a post when it is drowned out by numerous others that do not object. Regradless of how super-PC any moderator is, it's impossible to regulate everything, I recognize that. Obviously madeldoe has yet to argue why this thread should be closed if she so wishes but that doesn't make it less wrong for an Athiest to say that a Christian should not be insulted by what is essentially an anti-Christian post.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2006, 23:16   #24
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
Still the basic point remains that Lux's thread wasn't locked because of it's offensive nature, but rather cause of it's stupidity (pardon the expression). Did she mean it as humorous? Well, it certainly didn't appear to be, despite that last few sentences, however she was already accused of feminism by then, which WOULD make her say that in her defence anyway. If it was meant in a humorous way, then let me tell you, it was a really kauffman-esque performance.
I guess we should give her the opportunity to make her intentions ragarding that clear.
~~~~~~~~~~~
freddie | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ multyman@hotmail.com ]

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2006, 00:24   #25
dradeel dradeel is offline
Green Eyed Demon
 
dradeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Socialist hell: Norway
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,302

I think there are heaps of christians that would smile when reading this text 'cause they simply see the irony, yet don't take it personally. I don't believe that any christians would be convinced that their belief had been proven wrong, or that it was hurt in any way, just by reading this innocent text. I wouldn't in light years call this text an attack against christianity. This text was only a weak attempt to examplify the irony of it.

I know this guy in Australia, he's catholic and laughs of every anti-christian comment I come with. He thinks they're just funny, 'cause they are awfully cliché, as he has great knowledge of the black metal scene. He's a metalhead... why hasn't he said that my comments are insulting, and why does he keep listening to the music? Because he doesn't take it personally, and he don't believe that some atheist from norway with satanic overtones could convince him or even make him feel less of about his absolute belief here in this world, and his way of looking at reality, the truth and that people will go to a better place when they "cross over to the other side". It's something private and important for him, and he doesn't care about other people's remarks. I respect him ooo-so-much for that!

Even Jerry Seinfeld brought up the issue of anti-semitism and how everyone spoke about anti-seimitism even from the slightest attempt of a jew-joke. I mean, everyone got offended by nothing. He examplified it by talking about anti-dentitism on one of the episodes of Seinfeld. Funny, and very self-ironic. It was pretty clear what he ment... and Jerry Seinfeld is a jew.

I'm just saying that people shouldn't take things so personally. Just laugh and forget about it!
~~~~~~~~~~~
What I Think Tank
I have started a blog that aims to concentrate its content on politics, economics and history, with a keen interest in American politics and the American tradition of Libertarianism and Austrian Economics.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2006, 21:47   #26
spyretto spyretto is offline
My Waking Hour
 
spyretto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: in oblivion
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,486

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
Yes it is possible that madeldoe is the only one of this particular interest group, so she spoke up. I'm not saying she doesn't have a right to feel offended (eventhough the potential for anyone to get offended is vastly more remote than in Lux's thread) If she does feel so she's welcomed to explain to us all the good parts of christian beliefs. But trust me on this one... Lux's thread closing was not in any way connected to any male interest groups expressing discontent. It was more to do with the fact that it was redundant and not on an appropriate discussion level. It had absolutely no potential to evolve into an interesting debate. It did have a huge potential though to evolve into a flame war... and I don't think any males would be involved in the flaming, to tell you the truth.
I don't think it got to the point where people were actually in a position to refute the sheer stupidity of that thread because it was closed early...as for the current thread...jee, I think you people must be really bored. Nice analogy and witty story no doubt, rather insulting towards religious people, who are outnumbering the atheists by the vast majority on this planet.

PS. what's wrong with a war of words...it's fun and it's all virtual anyway..I find this thread quite disappointing compared to the flame war we could have had.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2006, 21:58   #27
forre forre is offline
Primetime Anchor
 
forre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sweden/France
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,954

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyretto
I find this thread quite disappointing compared to the flame war we could have had.
It's all good bit I'm outta here. We are in the translating business right now. I can only assure you that Lux's thread won't be opened, more than that I'm going to trash it next week. Have fun here!
~~~~~~~~~~~
Olga | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ ritzer@hotmail.com ]

Latest News:
| Tatu gallery | Current News | News Archive
  Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2006, 22:17   #28
spyretto spyretto is offline
My Waking Hour
 
spyretto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: in oblivion
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,486

Quote:
Originally Posted by forre
It's all good bit I'm outta here. We are in the translating business right now. I can only assure you that Lux's thread won't be opened, more than that I'm going to trash it next week. Have fun here!
Offtop:
I don't mind Lux thread, it was kinda fun..yeah well, thanks for all your good wishes... unfortunately I too don't have enough time to enjoy myself over here as I used to but yeah I do pop around for the ocassional dose of fun' n' games...you do realise however that the thread can be seen as offensive, don't you? It's common sense, don't have to believe in God to see that...well never mind, good luck with the translation venture
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 07:15   #29
Lux Lux is offline
kis$ it
 
Lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,125

Send a message via AIM to Lux Send a message via MSN to Lux Send a message via Yahoo to Lux Send a message via Skype™ to Lux
i am really tired

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
Still the basic point remains that Lux's thread wasn't locked because of it's offensive nature, but rather cause of it's stupidity (pardon the expression).
i beg to differ. i was accused of something people do not even know the meaning of. pardon MY thread, it was MY expression. you closed a thread because it was stupid? let's see, how many stupid things do people post on this forum that do not get locked? too many to count. and there are plenty of topics in the past that have been stupid and offensive but did not get locked. THAT is stupid. pardon the expression.

Quote:
Did she mean it as humorous?
i think you do not care. no one does. no one asked me. no one gives a shit. people reacted with "Lux hates men" or "Lux is an ultra feminist" and did not bother to ask why i posted the thread.

Quote:
Well, it certainly didn't appear to be, despite that last few sentences, however she was already accused of feminism by then,
that makes no sense. i do not comprehend your english sometimes. i was accused of feminism AFTER i posted the thread, not during or before it. what you wrote does not make sense. also, need i remind you that a few people enjoyed it. a few others did not find it offensive. but again, since you claim it was closed due to its supposed stupidity, whether it was offensive is irrelevant. yet somehow, it seemed that it was closed because of its offensive nature. maybe the mods disagree? first, you (mods) said it was offensive and now you are saying it was closed because it is redundant and stupid? what redundancy is there? no one else posted anything like this before. and certainly no one expressed their opinions on why they prefer women before this. pardon my tendency to express my most thorough expressions. i am expressively incline to express.


Quote:
which WOULD make her say that in her defence anyway.
are you in my head? i think not. assuming what i would and would not do is ridiculous. you do not know me and do not know what i will and will not do. i thought you mods were supposed to be unbiased and fair. and definitely would not incorporate personal objective insight into the matter.


Quote:
If it was meant in a humorous way, then let me tell you, it was a really kauffman-esque performance.
so even if i wrote it to be funny, you say that it is not? LMAOO now you are considering the fact that i wrote it without any intent whatsover, leaving it totally up to the minds of this forum to interpret. funny or not, now you see its humorous potential?

Quote:
I guess we should give her the opportunity to make her intentions ragarding that clear.
this is forum. i could have done that already. you do not have to give me opportunity. ever. this is a forum. free and open to all. i do not need your permission to post anything. and who is we? who are you speaking for?

on a side note. having debates such at these are tedious because english is not the best language for some members on the forum. that is, it is simply difficult to understand what people write. grammar is important. as is being able to accurately convey what you think. in cases where it is difficult for people to express their opinions, ideas get blurry and the debate itself goes to hell. english is not my first language but i know it better than any other language. i think i have mastered the english language to a degree sufficiently enough to express my views clearly and accurately.


definition of feminism:
men and women should be equal in every realm: public and private. that is, men and women should be equal both in the professional world and the domestic world. example: women should not be left at home to take care of the kids and clean the house, and they should not make $0.75 to the $1.00 for the same work that men do. in one word, equality between men and women.
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Complete™ forever

I never thought it would be this clear | Lux [ light-ness@hotmail.com ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 07:55   #30
spyretto spyretto is offline
My Waking Hour
 
spyretto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: in oblivion
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,486

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux


definition of feminism:
men and women should be equal in every realm: public and private. that is, men and women should be equal both in the professional world and the domestic world. example: women should not be left at home to take care of the kids and clean the house, and they should not make $0.75 to the $1.00 for the same work that men do. in one word, equality between men and women.
So lets suppose - for the sake of the discussion - that your thread wasn't offensive or stupid
( ie the "arguments" did make some sense, and nobody would get offended by the way the arguments were put forward ). How exactly was your thread promoting the "equality between men and women"
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 08:13   #31
Lux Lux is offline
kis$ it
 
Lux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,125

Send a message via AIM to Lux Send a message via MSN to Lux Send a message via Yahoo to Lux Send a message via Skype™ to Lux
it is not and i never said it was. since there was not a clear definition present on this forum, i decided it best to establish what it means. please re-read the thread. i never said it was feminist. it is clearly, not. however, others did.
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Complete™ forever

I never thought it would be this clear | Lux [ light-ness@hotmail.com ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 12:23   #32
Argos Argos is offline
Martian Eyes
 
Argos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Linz, Austria
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,197

Seems that some people have lost the sense of humour completely. What's wrong with questioning our thoughts and ideas whether it be about religion or sexuality or whatever else?

Unfortunately I missed Lux' thread, it was open less than 3 hours and was closed before one single argument. Freddy, I don't know why you don't have trust in the imagination of members of this forum, that you can state that it is stupid, before a discussion has even begun. For me Lux' statements were funny and worth of some witty argumentation, and I never had the impression that she has a tendency to hatred and personal offensiveness. So I think you (the mods) missed a chance for an interesting thread about sexual self-judging.

There is a difference between personal attacks and general 'pointed' discussions about some hot topics. Why not have some courage to permit such controverse threads?
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 12:50   #33
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
pie crust
 
QueenBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792

Quote:
you closed a thread because it was stupid? let's see, how many stupid things do people post on this forum that do not get locked?
For me it was just stupid... not offensive at all. I mean, I can have a dark humor sometimes too and naturally I would laugh at that (have done so before) but I think the thread was a bit too much.

Quote:
definition of feminism:
So someone used the wrong word. As you already stated a couple of sentances before that one, people have trouble with language and grammar, maybe they got the wrong definition. You keep bringing up the fact though, "How was my thread feministic?", "Do you even know what feministic means?" (or something along those lines).

Quote:
this is forum. i could have done that already. you do not have to give me opportunity. ever. this is a forum. free and open to all. i do not need your permission to post anything. and who is we? who are you speaking for?
If it's free and open for all, then you shouldn't be surprised that others find it wrong to post such threads. Also, since you have your right here - others have their right to close any thread for whatever reasons.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 13:06   #34
Argos Argos is offline
Martian Eyes
 
Argos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Linz, Austria
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,197

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
... but I think the thread was a bit too much.
Too much of what? To understand, to give a smart answer? Of wicked humour? Or what?


Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
If it's free and open for all, then you shouldn't be surprised that others find it wrong to post such threads.
Who are the others? The mods and their 'relatives'? Or were there normal members too, who were offended?
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 13:32   #35
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
pie crust
 
QueenBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792

Quote:
Too much of what?
"Man-hate". And yes I know she doesn't hate men.

Quote:
Who are the others? The mods and their 'relatives'? Or were there normal members too, who were offended?
The mods are abnormal?
Why can't the mods find it wrong to post such a thread? Do we need others to speak aswell? Maybe not so many spoke against the thread (except moderators and maybe one or two "normal" member, as you call them) but someone did, and a moderator chose to close the thread - don't expect it to open again. It goes to the trash.

I didn't say anyone was offended. I also stated that I wasn't offended.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 14:44   #36
Argos Argos is offline
Martian Eyes
 
Argos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Linz, Austria
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,197

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
Do we need others to speak aswell?
How should I interprete this? As far as I am concerned, the mods can talk to each other or hold 'grand monologues' as much as they want, but I thought, it's a forum, where it is supposed that people speak about topics in which they are interested in.

Sorry if I offend you, but I am not used to be dictated about what I am allowed to speak. I thought these times are over now in Europe, but it's not to late for me to learn that it's not!
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 14:50   #37
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
pie crust
 
QueenBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: where everybody knows my name
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,792

Quote:
As far as I am concerned, the mods can talk to each other or hold 'grand monologues' as much as they want, but I thought, it's a forum, where it is supposed that people speak about topics in which they are interested in.
I think you misunderstood me... sorry, I can be confusing as English isn't my first language. I meant, if a mod thinks that a thread should be closed for whatever reasons, why does she/he need to need the other members' opinions (to be allowed to close it)? The thread was locked very quickly (I think, I mean there were not many posts - I certainly saw it when it was locked) so not even all moderators got a chance to say anything, and I don't see why this is wrong.

I don't think it was locked so that opinions shouldn't be expressed... more because it was very straight forward men-suck-talking. I think there are clever ways to write such things, for example this thread.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Monika | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ <3 ] [ 11 ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 15:02   #38
Argos Argos is offline
Martian Eyes
 
Argos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Linz, Austria
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,197

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
I think you misunderstood me...
I understood you very well, but I think it was not necessary to close the thread that early. I can't speak for Olga, but I have the impression, it was a paranoia-close, to avoid bad vibes before the discussion even has begun. Most of us members know where is heated discussion and where personal insult begins, so we don't need a guardian most of the time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 15:16   #39
marina marina is offline
Re-Offender
 
marina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shanghai , China
Posts: 2,103

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos
Sorry if I offend you, but I am not used to be dictated about what I am allowed to speak. I thought these times are over now in Europe, but it's not to late for me to learn that it's not!
No , you got it all wrong ! You free to talk whatever you pleased but at your own place , at your home . Or on the streets . If you go to the other people house you have to respect the host of the house and his rules. I say *you* , you .....but it can be any of us. So , our hosts , our mods seems didn't like very much talks of smelly gorillas -men , their unplesant moaning and groaning during the intercorse and last but not the least -- wonderfully vile sound of flapping man's balls during this time ...Do you want to talk about this , Argos?
Do you ? I can hook up you with a couple of links . No need to thank you me.
So , our mods didn't like that and closed the thread . What do you want to do ? Walk around the forum with the banners :* Please open Flapping Balls thread . We haven't got full pleasure yet !!!*
  Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2006, 15:37   #40
nath nath is offline
Участник
 
nath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Paris
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,104

Send a message via ICQ to nath Send a message via MSN to nath Send a message via Skype™ to nath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
definition of feminism:
men and women should be equal in every realm: public and private. that is, men and women should be equal both in the professional world and the domestic world. example: women should not be left at home to take care of the kids and clean the house, and they should not make $0.75 to the $1.00 for the same work that men do. in one word, equality between men and women.
I know the definition of "feminist", don't worry for my poor culture...
I know too the state of mind that some hard ultra-feminists could have and the hate they could feel to wards men..
Don't tell me it doesn't exist.

So I wasn't stuck to the dictionary ; I was referring to this state of mind.
Sorry to tell you that...you can tell you love men and you have nothing against them but I really wonder how you could write such disgusting things if you feel the such respect you pretend to have to wards men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos
Who are the others? The mods and their 'relatives'? Or were there normal members too, who were offended?
It was me.
I have replied and expressed my full disgust, dislike in reading a such post.
For your information, I'm a normal member as you and I have absolutely no more "right", no more power than you: direct or "indirect".

The first time I read your posts Argos, you were insulting all the mods for a reason where you weren't involved at all....
I see you haven't changed as you still contest about the honesty, the fair judgment of the mods about a thread you haven't read....

Zorro 's complex ?

Last edited by nath; 29-04-2006 at 16:15.
  Reply With Quote
ReplyPost New Thread

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
::Opinions:: Homophobia, racism, etc. Echoed Politics and Science 72 25-11-2003 00:30



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:20.




© 2001-2008 Unofficial site of group TATU

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.