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Old 12-05-2007, 15:57   #101
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Well, i'm sorry but i've never trusted Mitrofanov, a 'moderate' LDPR is still a LDPR in my eyes, just like i wouldn't trust Marine Le Pen even though she's a 'moderate' FN, i just don't buy his sincerity, he has to have an agenda.
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Old 14-05-2007, 09:51   #102
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Jirinovsky allways uses prisoners and homosexual people for election support. I don't see something new in this position. If you consider LDPR as a conservative nationalistic party comparable with Le Pen party - that means you know nothing about Russian political establishment. They are ready to use any image which is actual at current moment. Western people are afraid LDPR after 1993 elections - nationalism was very popular after Eltsin's revolt and national humiliation of Russian people after USSR crashing. So LDPR propaganda was based on nationalism - but after 1993 LDPR changed political position many times.

I can not understand the goal of gay-parade in Moscow. Russian people are rather conservative and after this action gays and lesbians will be more despised than now. On the contrary at present time russian gays are feeling quite good at least in large cities. There are even special stores for gays in centre of Moscow and St.-Petersburg (situated on Nevsky prospect!!!).
At the same time St.-Petersburg government has allowed gay demonstration in city centre. But I am sure that is not interesting for gay leaders without conflict with authorities.
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:34   #103
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So to review the politics & science room a bit... the Russian invasion of Georgia 08!

Russians accusing Georgians of genocide against the Ossetians. Awesome innit? That's like Hitler accusing someone of racism. I guess Chechnya is long forgotten in the Russian spirit. Medvedev is one huge disappointment so far. He says he's a man who promotes the rule of law but so far he's shown himself to be nothing but Putin's buttboy. It's OBVIOUS what the motives behind this invasion is and I think this time Russia went to far. Of course like always the international community will "strongly condemn" Russia's actions while doing nothing about it.

Imo Russia has NO business being in UN's Security Council.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:00   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie View Post
...That's like Hitler accusing someone of racism.
Couldn't be more demagogic and simply AWFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by freddie View Post
I guess Chechnya is long forgotten in the Russian spirit.
What do you know about Chechnya, other than those propagandistic lies we are used to hear in western media?
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Originally Posted by freddie View Post
Medvedev is one huge disappointment so far.
Your understanding of politics is too!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by freddie View Post
It's OBVIOUS what the motives behind this invasion is
It's obvious you didn't care to gather some information before you post your UNBEARABLE RANT against a country about which you don't even know the basics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:33   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
What do you know about Chechnya, other than those propagandistic lies we are used to hear in western media?
You are absolutely right. I'm only familiar with lies global press has been manipulatively feeding me for ages, rather than the real truth which can only be heard from politically unbiased, uncensored and righteous press of the Russian Federation.

However we shall end this everpresent global conspracy against Russia once and for all by starting to ignore anything web-related that doesn't bear the .ru ending. Then we will finally be liberated from all malicious lies the western media (which in itself is of course a unified front against Russia) bombards us with.
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:10   #106
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^^^You didn't answer my question. But it was more a rhetorical question anyway, because I know that you are not familiar (to express it gracefully) with history of the Caucasus. And by the way, my information sources don't have .ru endings. But that's another typical polemic of yours, not ready to talk about contents, just to throw shit on others, wherever you can, if it's convenient for you!
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Old 10-08-2008, 14:26   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
^^^You didn't answer my question. But it was more a rhetorical question anyway, because I know that you are not familiar (to express it gracefully) with history of the Caucasus. And by the way, my information sources don't have .ru endings. But that's another typical polemic of yours, not ready to talk about contents, just to throw shit on others, wherever you can, if it's convenient for you!
What question?
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Old 10-08-2008, 18:48   #108
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Russia did nothing more than what the Americans have been doing for the past 50 years - even in regions they have no ties with, other than economic ties. Especially considering that the South Ossetians were independent and many have Russian citizenship. Bush was trying yesterday to demonise the Russians - that they indiscrininately bombing civilians etc.
So if you're siding with that camp freedie you're siding with Bush and his propaganda advisors. And since the Georgians have possibly started the invasion either directly or indirectly with the USA eulogies - or perhaps they thought they could get away with it cause big fat uncle Sam would be on their side?
So I dunno, I'd take anything "Bush" with a pinch of salt these days.
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Old 10-08-2008, 19:48   #109
freddie freddie is offline
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Originally Posted by spyretto View Post
Russia did nothing more than what the Americans have been doing for the past 50 years - even in regions they have no ties with, other than economic ties. Especially considering that the South Ossetians were independent and many have Russian citizenship. Bush was trying yesterday to demonise the Russians - that they indiscrininately bombing civilians etc.
So if you're siding with that camp freedie you're siding with Bush and his propaganda advisors. And since the Georgians have possibly started the invasion either directly or indirectly with the USA eulogies - or perhaps they thought they could get away with it cause big fat uncle Sam would be on their side?
So I dunno, I'd take anything "Bush" with a pinch of salt these days.
Leave Bush out of this. I'm siding with people who're willing to call a spade a spade and stop with this ridiculous hypocrisy. Russia doesn't give a shit about Russian citizens living in Ossetia. We all know what a thorn in Putin's side Georgia's pro-western stance was after Shevernadze got kicked out (by the people, like it should be). What I see is an invasion on a soverign country's borders. Not a country that harbour terrorism or tyranic dictators. Not a country that holds public executions on a football pitch. But simply a country that threatens dangerous NATO expansion. They've showed a clip today of Putin & Medvedev discussing current state of affairs; Putin saying that they simply have to protect poor people of Ossetia from Georgian genocide.... that literaly made me physically sick. What guile! What hypocrisy! It's just unbearable.
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Old 10-08-2008, 20:31   #110
Argos Argos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie View Post
Russia doesn't give a shit about Russian citizens living in Ossetia.
Oh, we continue with polemic of lowest level! 90 % of South Ossetia's citizens have a Russian passport. Therefore it's of importance for Russia, what happens to them. From the moment Georgia became independent, the South Ossetians tried to be independent, because they never trusted Tbilisi. There are reasons for this.
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Originally Posted by freddie View Post
What I see is an invasion on a soverign country's borders.
A country which has been built by Stalin who gave a shit about it's ethnical composition. Since independency Georgia failed completely to give the religious and ethnic minorities at least a minimum of rights. Austria (that's where I live, by the way) is currently full of those people who had no more place to live in that oh so democratic country.
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.... that literaly made me physically sick.
I hope you will soon recover (maybe by not watching sensation TV and not reading boulevard papers)!

edit:

Some things for amusement in this case:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhail Saakashvili
I'm in agreement with George W. Bush that it isn't so much about Georgia but that it is in some way an aggression against the United States Of America.
Eeeh, what? That widens the horizon, doesn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the same Mikhail Saakashvili
On the 6th or 7th August I smelled something fishy. I tried to talk with the Russian side but didn't get an answer.
Well, that's funny! He orders the army to set the capital of South Ossetia under fire, with the consequence that about 1500 people died, which caused the interruption of Putin's China visit, who headed directly for North Ossetia, where he could greet already a lot of refugees from South Ossetia, and only then he, Mikhail the Nose, smelled something?

The following is not my quote (from Austrian newspaper Der Standard), but I think it hits the mark quite well:
Quote:
A hint for Saakashvili: in most cases the reason is your rubbish bin. Nobody sets his kitchen on fire if he smells something, but he disposes his rubbish properly.
When it comes to hypocrisy then Mikhail is not less a master than the Russian leaders, whose claim of genocid against the Ossetian people is ridiculous as well, but in our beautiful world it's soooo inconvenient that there are two bad guys. There has to be a good one and a bad one. Amen!

Last edited by Argos; 10-08-2008 at 22:28.
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Old 10-08-2008, 20:53   #111
Life In Technicolor Life In Technicolor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
90 % of South Ossetia's citizens have a Russian passport. Therefore it's of importance for Russia, what happens to them.
Eduard Kokoity says what happens to them:

Quote:
The President of the breakaway republic of South Ossetia Eduard Kokoity claimis about 1,400 people have been killed by Georgian shelling.

“It is the third genocide of the Ossetian people from the side of Georgia, and Saakashvili is the main murderer,” Kokoity said. http://www.russiatoday.ru/
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Old 10-08-2008, 23:13   #112
freddie freddie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
Oh, we continue with polemic of lowest level! 90 % of South Ossetia's citizens have a Russian passport. Therefore it's of importance for Russia, what happens to them. From the moment Georgia became independent, the South Ossetians tried to be independent, because they never trusted Tbilisi. There are reasons for this.
What on Earth are you saying? 30% of the populace of Macedonia comprises of Albanians. Albanians feel they're getting treated with severe prejudice in a Slavic country. Does that give Albania teh right to invade Macedonia and "free it's people"? Hell no. There's a huge Russian population in the Baltic states and they feel discriminated against as well. Lets just hope Russia doesn't come to "liberate" them as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
A country which has been built by Stalin who gave a shit about it's ethnical composition. Since independency Georgia failed completely to give the religious and ethnic minorities at least a minimum of rights. Austria (that's where I live, by the way) is currently full of those people who had no more place to live in that oh so democratic country!
So the only remedy to fix these great injustices would be for a foreign occupying force infiltrating sovereign borders and make things right? Lets not forget they're not bombing military infrastructure Georgia has in Ossetia, they're bombarding Tbilisi which is Georgia proper. Civilians in Tbilisi have absolutely nothing to do with rebel figthers in Ossetia. As far as I'm concerned this is an all out war against a sovereign country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos
When it comes to hypocrisy then Mikhail is not less a master than the Russian leaders, whose claim of genocid against the Ossetian people is ridiculous as well, but in our beautiful world it's soooo inconvenient that there are two bad guys. There has to be a good one and a bad one. Amen!
Well in my book the invader will always be the bad guy no matter how you spin it. And you say it like the charges of genocide are pretty much a proven fact, with Mr. Shakashvili just counting the hours till he's taken to an international tribunal facing charges. But that's sort of... not the case is it? Again: there is absolutely no international standard that would allow an invasion into a neighbouring country, which posses no direct threat to your existence.
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Old 10-08-2008, 23:45   #113
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More human beings destorying theirself, it never ends. Can someone give me a the short version why this stupid war has started?

Also, any word on what the group tatu says about the war?
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Old 11-08-2008, 02:04   #114
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So if you're siding with that camp freedie you're siding with Bush and his propaganda advisors.
How is this an either/or situation?
I think you're giving too much credit to the States.

I know Americans are quite guilty of entangling themselves in many foriegn disputes but some countries are quite capable of fucking up all on their own without any outside help. Esp. in this case seeing as how there's nothing the US can do... they tend to steer clear from nuclear powers.
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Old 11-08-2008, 08:09   #115
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In my opinion, Russia only did what was necessary to protect the Russian people living in Ossetia. It's not like it was an attack on Georgia...or even an unprovoked disturbance. Georgia should have left Ossetia in peace. I always find it comical to watch these former soviet occupied countries (that resented soviet oppression) try to seize control of independent republics that have broken away from them. Largely hypocritical in my opinion.

Offtop:
Quote:
What on Earth are you saying? 30% of the populace of Macedonia comprises of Albanians. Albanians feel they're getting treated with severe prejudice in a Slavic country. Does that give Albania teh right to invade Macedonia and "free it's people"? Hell no. There's a huge Russian population in the Baltic states and they feel discriminated against as well. Lets just hope Russia doesn't come to "liberate" them as well.
I'm not really sure why Balkan people such as yourself like to keep discussing themes of the Yugoslav wars in relation to everything else that happens in and around the region. It's an entirely separate issue, what purpose do comments like this serve, other than to cause even more ethnic tension in an already ethnic-hostile region? - Russia was not "freeing" anybody. They were simply protecting their citizens in this region. You're twisting things around.

Last edited by Talyubittu; 11-08-2008 at 08:33.
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Old 11-08-2008, 12:58   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyubittu View Post
In my opinion, Russia only did what was necessary to protect the Russian people living in Ossetia. It's not like it was an attack on Georgia...or even an unprovoked disturbance. Georgia should have left Ossetia in peace. I always find it comical to watch these former soviet occupied countries (that resented soviet oppression) try to seize control of independent republics that have broken away from them. Largely hypocritical in my opinion.
In my opinion it wasn't. I can't see how bombing the capital of Georgia could be percieved as anything else but an attack on Georgia. Nor do I understand how striking civilian targerts and causing a mass exodus from Ossetia would contribute to "protecting Russian people living in Ossetia". It's also my opinion Russia had absolutely no business interfering with internal matters of an internationally recognized state. A country's right to protect it's citizens living abroad ends where the rights of another sovereign entity begins (eventhough of course I'm also of the opinion Russia's using the whole "protecting minorities/Russian citizens as a convenient excuse to justify the attacks; when the Soviet Union invaded Prague in 68 it was also officially just "protecting minorities").

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyubittu
I'm not really sure why Balkan people such as yourself like to keep discussing themes of the Yugoslav wars in relation to everything else that happens in and around the region. It's an entirely separate issue, what purpose do comments like this serve, other than to cause even more ethnic tension in an already ethnic-hostile region? - Russia was not "freeing" anybody. They were simply protecting their citizens in this region. You're twisting things around.
Georgia is neither in nor "around" the Balkans. I was using it to show the banality of the situation rather than draw a direct comparison. And I also used the example of Baltic countries. I think "freeing" or "protecing it's citizens" sound equally outrageous, hence me employing that particular verb.
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Old 11-08-2008, 13:32   #117
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Russia bombing civil targets in Tbilisi(Last action was bombing Tbilisi civil airport) to "protect its people living in Ossetia"?Sounds ridiculous.
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Old 11-08-2008, 15:54   #118
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Quote:
It's also my opinion Russia had absolutely no business interfering with internal matters of an internationally recognized state.
That statement is difficult to swallow, depending on who you're speaking with. I don't see it as an internal matter at all for Georgia. S. Ossetia has expressed its wishes to remain separate from Georgia - it is no longer an internal conflict; especially when the people living there are largely Russian citizens in percentage. Georgia should have never moved any military forces into Tskhinvali.
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Old 11-08-2008, 16:09   #119
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I wonder how Russians would feel if an American band came to Russia with shirts reading "Fuck War"?
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Old 11-08-2008, 16:13   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyubittu View Post
That statement is difficult to swallow, depending on who you're speaking with. I don't see it as an internal matter at all for Georgia. S. Ossetia has expressed its wishes to remain separate from Georgia - it is no longer an internal conflict; especially when the people living there are largely Russian citizens in percentage. Georgia should have never moved any military forces into Tskhinvali.
Chechnyans have expressed a similar "wish"... by that reasoning that's all the reasons you need to storm borders of the Russian Federation and start shelling Moscow.
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