Learning Russian with SP

[coolasfcuk]

elf, ahhhh I knew I messed up something with the grammar - I always confuse the падежы
cant wait till we get to some grammar rules here ....but everything has it's time....

russkaya, I think we are different cased... I think it works for all the other students....lets hear what they say....but my understanding is that it is helpful to them, no?
so maybe we will record... and they can transcript first and then record....lets see what the teacher says she's in charge and doing great job.... this is really hard work - and it is very very appreciated *here is a and a for you - you've deserved it*

[russkayatatu]

Ahh ahh ahh cool you are right - I'm sorry sunnich, I think you are doing a great job too; did not ever mean to imply differently . Let me try to rephrase: what I meant to say: hmmm, like when I took Japanese we wrote out the first few tests in romaji, which was Latin spelling that approximated the Japanese characters - so they knew we knew how to pronounce it - but after that we used only the Japanese...it was something you move beyond eventually.

I meant EVENTUALLY probably we should only record (and write from dictation) - so you will have to know the same rules and everything, it's not like you won't use this knowledge ever (too bad for those who think this would get them out of work ) - because transcriptions are good but, like no one in Japan writes in romaji, no one in Russia writes in transcriptions, and if you use it for too long you can get into the bad habit of translating from romaji to Japanese rather than using Japanese naturally. So I think it is good but kind of dangerous if you keep it up too long....but whatever sunny poison decides is best is great....she is the teacher...and it's true, people learn differently, transcriptions can be really helpful in teaching pronunciation and that's what we want, right? I just wanted to put into perspective the idea that being able to write what you hear and record what you read is really the ultimate test Plus I never did it, and I don't feel the lack

Val, no offense intended - you are doing wonderfully, and do a great job explaining the pronunciation rules, which is really helpful indeed - spasibochki *you already have a drink and a cig - here are some flowers to go along with that *

[coolasfcuk]

russkayatatu, I am sure Val know you didnt mean anything bad with whay you said I didnt mean to imply you were but I do think you and me and elf here are 'different' cases a little ... but I do understant what you say...

I think if transcripts help people understand better...do it... but i think we still need to record - so we can see if we are really progressing beside, I love recording myself too bad we couldnt have a conference all all together - that would've been fun

[russkayatatu]

Pravil'no, I understand what you're saying too We'll see what others have to say

About the comment you recorded about me...it is almost all correct...you should have said "она так прекрасно говорит по-русски" instead of "говорить" which is the infinitive. And with the "лучше чем американски," it doesn't really make sense, at least to me, because the comparison isn't clear Whether it means: "говорит по-русски лучше чем по-английски" (speaks Russian better than English) or "лучше чем американка" (better than an American) or something meaning "когда она говорит по-русски, она больше похожа на русскую, чем на американку" (when she speaks Russian, she sounds more like a Russian than an American)...what you wrote is not totally clear; you can't say that in Russian

Those are the only things that are wrong...so you see...just two minor mistakes, as you say The difference between 3rd pers. sing. and infinitive (the only difference is a palatalized "t" or not) and a slight reworking of the the adjective to what you mean...other than that - really good, and like I said, you sound more Russian - in the phrases you use especially - than anyone I know

edit: in the written title too: should be РУССКИЙ should be РУССКИ - the only time you have "русски" instead of "руский" is in the phrase "по-русски" (in Russian)

[coolasfcuk]

russkayatatu, спасибки, все поняла. И да, 'говорит по русски лучше чем по американски'
the infinitive - ahhh, you know me - BG has no infinitive, so I always mess it up - pratice...practice will get rid of that problem same goes for Русски и Русский for us it is Руски и Руски

[russkayatatu]

That's what I thought you meant....but boooooo, come on, I speak "американски" perfectly I'm going to record explaining something in English soon so you can see how I can speak it fluently and without an accent

One more thing - in your last post too - it is written по-русски (with a hyphen) rather than по русски (no hyphen)....don't ask me why, but it is true for all languages: по-немецки, по- английски, по-японски (in German, in English, in Japanese)....it's short for по русскому языку (in the Russian language), although the case got changed around a little apparently Also, in Bulgarian you have hyphenated comparatives like по-евтина - right? In Russian you don't, you write it as one word (I think, although I'm not quite sure ) so, побольше (a little more) instead of по-больше.

[la aurora]

Well, guess I need to explain some things. I didn't take any of ur comments as an offense, really (it's quite hard to offend me as I always prefere believing ppl mean their best lol! ) And feel free to complain if U think I do anything wrong. We'll discuss it and find the right way.

I wasn't going to use transcriptions for long. I didn't ask u to do this with ur 1st exercise and I'm not going to do it with the 3rd one (anyone can do it for himself if feel need). The reason i asked students to do this is that I just wanted to make sure they really think about rules while doing the recording. I didn't want them to miss anything. That's all. It's just easier to correct mistake when it's a written text as when U hear the file U can feel something is wrong but it takes loads of time to understand what exactly. It was just an additional task, I'm still waiting for the files like I said right from the beginnig. I'm posting the right variant 2morrow and then expect to hear ur reading. This time I'll see if U have difficulties coz U don't know rules or u just find it difficult to pronauce some sounds even knowing how they should sound exactly. It's a big difference, u know. That was the only reason I asked U to do a transcription. I didn't have any intention to mock at U with this. All this transcription thing isn't any easier for me then for u, believe me.

So, of course U can skip this part of an exercise (everything is voluntary and I can agree that coolie, elf and russkayatatu don't really need it). if any other student decides he doesn't need this either, it's ok. Everyone has his own schedule *winks to Denial* I'm not gonna push U.

I can't give dictations now as our students need to learn some words before. I just wanted to help them with right reading as most of them has some kinds of phrase-books and they simply can't read them correctly. I wanted to make sure they can read everything that's written and learn the words, not just combination of letters. Reading is just a first step but quite an important one.

Step 2 will include grammar and vocabulary. But it will be much easier to explain something without having to post the trascription as well, right? Don't forget, guys don't have anyone to help them with pronunciation around. So they need to learn it themselves.

*takes the drink, ciggie and flowers and goes away thinking that being a teacher isn't that bad*

[coolasfcuk]

waiting for the english files.... I am sure you know english perfectlly I just said it as a compliment

how weird with the - !! LoL
we have по-____ for 'more'(of something) and най-____ for 'the most'(of something) but we can also say 'повече' = 'more' - this just must be a weird case word - because otherwise usually we just say: по-голям =bigget, по-висок-taller, по-далече = furder away, etc but I am really going to stop being so bad.... and open the BG thread so we can discuss those there.

[prostrel]

For me transcription was difficult but useful, like I said I haven`t done it before and I wasn`t sure how to use sign ' . That excersice really made me to think about the pronunciation rules although I know I still have several mistakes in my excercise. Softies (consonants) after е, ё, и, ю and я are difficult to remember. I`m impatiently waiting for the right variant. What comes to recording I won`t do that cos I don`t have nessesary equipments for that. But, I do listen Russian daily from radio and I also have now and then around me people who can correct my pronunciation.

I (still) have a question from the song ' Клоуны' : How do Lena pronounce the word ' огоньки' ? I have tried to figure it out but I just don`t get it. The way I hear it is not even the same word which is written, I can`t even give a description of how I hear it. Strange.

Coolasfcuk, I just can`t believe that BG doesn`t have infinitive !? I thought every language has it.

Sunny Poison , you have been a great teacher. I have not sent to you anything before ( I am so ashamed) so now I`ll send to you hundred first-class (without thorns of course, I took them away with my own hands), a box of Belgian or Finnish chocolates (best chocolates of the world) and... a bottle of vodka I guess

[la aurora]

huhu... being a teacher becomes more and more interesting with every new day, I must say Although I don't drink vodka, I'll make an exception and share it with U, guys, the day we meet and have a nice drunk conversation... in russian of course

Thank U, prostrel!
Back to ur question...
Огоньки is pronaunced as "аган'к'и". I recordered the file for U. U can find it here . Huh... for me Lena's singing sounds quite clear

Now the prommised transcription. Here U are. This is the right variant. At least I hope it is, as transcription is also confusing for me, so I could miss anything. If U see something looks different from what it should be according to the rules, just let me know and I'll either explain or correct myself, k?

Кажицца акажицца прощи н'и знаком'ицца
Кто из нас аткажицца вз'ат' и успакоицца
Д'эвачк'и каг д'эвачк'и, а патом лунат'ик'и
Нам'ира и стр'элачк'и, шакалатк'и, фант'ик'и.

Comment: yeah, 'из' sounds this way when U read fast enough as it a service word and kinda flows into 'нас'. As 'н' doesn't make the consonant unvoiced, 'з' stays voiced. It wasn't something U were supposed to know, but U should read it this way.
Pay ur attention to the word 'фантики'. It's not written in any rule, but 'н' in this word sounds kinda soft. Not as soft as in combination 'ни' for example but still softer than it should be according to the rules. Why? I don't know. It's just easier to pronaunce this way. Try urself and U'll get what I mean. Leaving it 100% firm makes the pronauncing of this word kinda hard.

That's all. Now it's time for ur recording, guys

[zebu]

I didn't submit second homework cause I was busy with my exam but I've done the recording now. So here it is homework. I was reluctant about sending it first I thought I would wait for someone to post first to hear if I've done it right but...

I was actually trying to read some stuff from the Croatian book I showed you before and it was really confusing, and the texts for practising reading are were so funny to me, something about spliting apples po bratski, and v liftje, but it was useful, I think since it has transcript below so you can correct yourself

so now that I recorded myself first and made my recording public you can all laugh at my poor attempt...

*goes off to hide in school's toilet and smoke*

[prostrel]

Oops! zebu , I tried to listen to your homework but all I got was a picture where were a sea, sailing boats and a big rock Maybe there is something wrong with my PC.

[coolasfcuk]

zebu, I couldnt dl it either...but I see the extension is .jpg

[la aurora]

LOL! zebu, this ur homework... it's so much like the piccie I posted at the 'postcard' thread! U copied the wrong filename, I guess

[coolasfcuk]

sunnich I saw it before you edited it

must be because I am at work again.... I think I can only see those at home

[la aurora]

*cough* mm... hehe... quite fast U are I must say, it took me just some minutes to realize that I mixed ur and prostrel's posts

And those links don't work for ya? Even after I changed them to .html some minutes ago o_0 ?

[shizzo]

This is the coolest thread on the planet.

[And omg omg omg, russkayatatu's singing, omg omg omg!]



// Loki

[la aurora]

huhu...cniaju, welcome
And U are right: this is the cooliest thread of the planet, as well as the most sunny one. These 2 bustards DO post a lot here

btw, visit 'The Idea' thread in Music&Movies. russkaya sings there also... as well as many others. U can even join us But warning: that room is pretty full of smoke

[shizzo]

Bleh!
I loathe smoke. =/

But I'll go anyway, with the prospect of getting to hear
russkayatatu's ьberlovely voice.

// an enchanted Loki

[la aurora]

huh, coolie, sry... sure I'm the only bustard here just had a ciggie and as I didn't have any snack today, it kinda had some effect on my brain

So, dear students. Who'll be the first to post the homework? zebu was the bravest one (if not count cool who just HAS to post her homework a bit later as well as russkaya if she decides she needs it at all), but the link doesn't work. We just can't move on before finish with this, guys.

Oh, found a nice exercise for ya! (not obligatory as well as all previous ones). Try to write ur name in cyrillic. Not the nickname as it will look kinda strange (well, some of ur nicks are ok for that, other will look wierd). U know how letters sound. Now try to do vice versa - u know, how ur name sounds and just try to put it in cyrillic letters. U can have more then one variant C'mon! Don't be afraid! it's just for fun