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Learning Russian with SP


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Old 05-10-2003, 13:04   #1
la aurora la aurora is offline
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Learning Russian with SP

Ok. Being placed under such pressure I just can't say 'no' Besides, something tells me that the owner of my soul will make me to do this anyway. So, prepare ur texbooks, CDs, cassetes and tongues as we are about to start.

Have to warn U, that I'm NOT a professional teacher. Being one of those lucky bustards who was born with the feeling of language I was always knowing how this or that should be said or written but never bothered to find out why it should be so. Besides, while being quite good in Russian I still suck in English. So, I can have some problems explaining. That's why it's not going to be a full course. I don't promise I'll explain everything better then ur book or CD. Not. It's not gonna happen, I'm afraid... But I'll try to make ur learning easier (as I was always finding the easiest way myself) and more or less entertaining. So if U want to learn the grammar and all, better take any professional course. I'll help U with the LIVE Russian. One that Yulia wouldn't call 'zaupokoyniy' (monotonous speech full of pathos and heavy words they usually make at someone's funeral). I'll teach U some slang. And the best part is that I'm going to tech U only what U really want to know. U can always ask a question and get the answer

Requirements: Russian encoding set in ur browser, mic, any music player and will. That's all Wish U luck, guys!
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Old 05-10-2003, 13:06   #2
la aurora la aurora is offline
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Lesson one.

Here comes the boring part: Reading Russian. It's the thing U'd better learn right from the beginning. Once U learn it and U won't have any problems with reading futher. It's not as difficult as it looks. Just try to understand and then practice a bit. Don't hurry.

[here comes the text Denial got not so long ago. I changed it just a little bit. Girl, better use texts from this thread as I corrected some mistakes]

Let's start with vocals. If u look at russian alphabet (do u have one?), u'll see we have 10 of them. We don't have so many sounds tho... only 5 (6). Here comes the question: why the hell do we need the rest of the letters? I'll try to make things clearer:

U can divide these 10 letters into 5 pairs this way:
а - я (a - ya)
э - е (e - ye)
о - ё (o - yo)
у - ю (u - yu)
ы - и (... - i)

See what I mean? In first 4 pairs letters sound pretty similar. The difference is only in this 'j' (I'll be marking this sound this way futher, if u don't mind. It sounds like 'y' in the english word 'you' for example. In russian letter 'й' is responsible for this sound. Don't mix it with 'и'. These are 2 different sounds. Like 'е' and 'ё' btw, don't try to find any logic. There's no! lol)

So, U'll be to read letters this way in 3 cases:
- if it's the first letter of the word
- if it goes right after another vocal
- if it goes after 'ъ' or 'ь'
In other words, every time this letter doesn't have the consonant before it.

[make a pause and try to get what I mean. Last sentence is the most important here]

When it does have one, this 'j' sound disappears and letters from each pair sound similar:
both 'а' and 'я' sound like 'a',
both 'э' and 'е' sound like 'e'
and so on...

What's the difference then, u ask? There is one:
2nd letter from each pair (я, е, ё, ю and и) changes the way consonant (the one before it) sounds. It makes the consonant sound soft, while 1st ones (а, э, о, у and ы) don't (all the consonants stay really firm in this case).

'ы' and 'и' sound a bit different from each other but this rule works in this pair as well. If u try to pronaunce 'i' leaving the consonant really firm, u'll get something like 'ы'. Hm... or just try to pronaunce the word 'hit' (4 example) but put ur tongue a bit futher back than usually. U'll get 'ы'.

So we finally came to the consonants. Most of them sound exactly like in english. Just 'T' sounds either firmer or softer (never like english one). Here the letters u can have difficulties with:
ж - zh (like in english word decision... may be just a bit firmer)
й - j (like in the 'yard')
х - h (like in 'help, but much firmer)
ц - ts (like in its)
ч - ch (China)
ш - sh (sh shop)
щ - sh+ch or just try to pronaunce sh very soft

Remember:
'ж', 'ц' and 'ш' are ALWAYS firm
'ч' and 'щ' always stay soft
And u shouldn't give a fcuk what vocal follows it.

ALL other letters sound depending on the following vocal.

http://www.geocities.com/nrg2002ru/consonants.mp3
I used the pair of vocals 'э' - 'е', first leaves the consonant firm, second makes it soft, remember?

'ь' and 'ъ' are neither vocals nor consonants. They are not sounds at all - just signs. Fist one makes the consonant standing before it soft. Second - doesn't (this letter is rarely used). And they both are often used to separate the consonant from following vocal. Just an example:
де - d'e
дье - d'je
дъе - dje

http://www.geocities.com/nrg2002ru/theory.mp3 here I pronaunced some of the things I mentioned above.

And the last thing. Reading russian is easy, writing is hard as when u hear 'spasiba' for example (yeah, it sounds this way, I'm gonna explain why), u never know how u should write it. But u can easily learn how to read any word.

Just know:

'а' and 'и' are STRONG sounds
'о' and 'е' are WEAK ones
That means 'а' will sound as 'a' and 'и' will sound as 'i' ALWAYS.
'о' will sound as 'o' and 'е' will sound as 'e' ONLY when they are under the stress. Either way 'о' will sound as 'a' [or something between these two] and 'е' will sound as 'i' [or again something between]. Don't ask me why, I don't know. lol! It's just so.

Lets go back to our example:
'спасибо' (spasibo) - the stress is over the letter 'и' (i). There's no such thing as secondary stress in russian. That means 'а' and 'o' don't have any, right? As 'а' is a strong sound, it sounds exactly like it's written - 'a'. But 'о' is a weak one, so without stress it sounds as 'a'. That's why u get 'spasiba'. Got it? Tricky, I know...

The stress-sign should be marked at ur Phrasebook (they always do in such things). So, u shouldn't have any problem. Yeah, and if u meet letter 'ё' in the word, u can be 100% sure it's the one under the stress.

There are some difficulties with consonants that change their sound a bit and disappear from time to time... but I won't load ur head with this now. Even without knowing it, u'll be able to pronaunce russian words pretty well.

That's all. If u learn these few rules, u'll be able to read russian words properly.
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Old 05-10-2003, 13:09   #3
rachelc rachelc is offline
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How do I acquire Russian encoding then? I have a bit of a gift for languages, and am determined to learn Russian properly this year. I took an exam about 14 (!) years ago and passed it easily but can now only remember a few simple words, the pronunciation system and the alphabet. Id like to know how to say "That sucks ass" today please.

Actually on reflection, what I'd really like to know how to say is; "Girls, girls, I could be wonderful for your career, darlings. Shapovalov has lost the plot...Trust me."

Last edited by rachelc; 05-10-2003 at 13:49.
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Old 05-10-2003, 13:52   #4
Tom Violence Tom Violence is offline
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This week I learned the words for 'cable', 'adapter' and 'modem'.

In the next couple of weeks I should be starting a Russian class, but I shall certainly be keeping an attentive eye on this thread.

The phrase I would most like to learn today is 'Do you sell chicken breast fillets?'.
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Old 05-10-2003, 14:17   #5
zebu zebu is offline
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sunny thanx for opening this thread, it's very interesting.

I finally get some things about reading Russian, I asked my dad some questions about Russian when I started to listen to Tatu but he didn't remember almost anything although he learned it all high school(at that communist period almost everyone studied Russian in school in Croatia now there's no Russian in schools )
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Old 05-10-2003, 14:28   #6
nath nath is offline
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Good Sunny Poison!...You'll see this forum will become soon a Russian Forum..hehe...thanks a lot for your help!...
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Old 05-10-2003, 15:10   #7
la aurora la aurora is offline
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Well, rachelc, I don't know which browser U use. But in Netscape Navigator U should just go this way: View ==>Charcter Coding==>More==>East European==>Cyrillic (Windows-1251). 95% of sites in Ru Net (this site included) use this Encoding. Other 5% -Cyrillic ( KOI8-R). In Internet Explorer U need just to press right button of ur mouse on any place of the page to get the menu U need. But I'm not sure. My Explorer died oh so long ago . It should be something similar with all other browsers. Just try to find the word Encoding.

Hm... 'that sucks ass'? Could u explain what it means ? as I suck in English I tell ya! Besides, not all english expressions have exact russian equivalents. So, tell me in some words what this thing means and I'll give U some russian variants meaning something similar.

"Девчонки, милые! Я могла бы здорово помочь вам с вашей карьерой. Шаповалов уже не в теме... поверьте мне!"
"Difch'onk'i, m'iliye! Ya magla bi zdorava pamoch vam s vashey kar'yeray. Shapavalaf uzhe ni f t'eme... pav'er't'e mn'e!" Ufff... it's more or less how ur last sentence should be pronaunced But WARNING: don't try saying this to ur russian-language teacher! If he's not Russian, he won't understand. Most of the words are quite informal here. But be sure, Y&L will definitely get what U mean

Mark, lol! Was these 3 words really difficult to learn? They sound like 'kabel', 'madem' and 'adapter', right? although 'cable' can mean 'shnur' or 'povad' also

If U are really going to have a course in Russian, U don't need this thread. They'll teach U better, believe me. Besides, living in Russia can also help with ur studyings. Guess, pretty soon U are going to speak russian better then I do!

"У вас есть куриные грудки... филе?" - "U vas est' kur'iniye grudk'i... f'il'e?" or
"У вас есть филе куриных грудок?" - "U vas est' f'il'e kur'inih grudak?"
This is how "Do U have chicken breast fillets?" will be in Russian. In both ways U'll be understood, just first is a bit easier to pronaunce.

I'll provide the sound files later if U need them. Ok?
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Old 05-10-2003, 17:37   #8
rachelc rachelc is offline
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You're a gem Sunny P. It's all coming back to me now...I remember all that Oo nas yest and Oo vas yest shit. BTW "That sucks ass" means that's really crap.

And ah, yes, that little half "y" sound so characteristic of Russian, and liberally sprinkled around words here ,there and everywhere...not to mention that palatal "l".It's all coming back to me...

Last edited by rachelc; 05-10-2003 at 17:46.
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Old 05-10-2003, 20:52   #9
denial denial is offline
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Re: Learning Russian with SP

Quote:
Originally posted by sunny poison
Ok. Being placed under such pressure I just can't say 'no' Besides, something tells me that the owner of my soul will make me to do this anyway. So, prepare ur texbooks, CDs, cassetes and tongues as we are about to start.
OMG!! you're doing it!! Oh I LOVE YOU!! YA TEBYA LUBLUB Sunny!! ..kiss kiss kiss kiss kiss ..

ah its already too late.. I'll start my class tomorrow .. woohooo ..

Sunny ..for you sincerely from my ..well.. I'm a loving devil ..lol lol .. .. *devil's laughter of happiness*

oh I havent get to read all msg here yet . going to sleep now .. ohh . I so excited ..

And I am sure this is a SMOKING AREA ..am I right? haha..
~~~~~~~~~~~
I will forget my dreams
Nothing is what it seems
I will effect you
I will protect you
From all the crazy schemes

You traded in your wings
For everything freedom brings

You never left me
You never let me
See what this feeling means
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Old 05-10-2003, 21:52   #10
QueenBee QueenBee is offline
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sunny poison, I love you A Russian course, w00t w00t :P Could you please teach me how to say some sentences? I don't have any right now, butttt.. I will think about it, Russian is such a cool language

Thanks alot for doing this SUnnaaay
~~~~~~~~~~~
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Old 05-10-2003, 22:52   #11
la aurora la aurora is offline
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yep, sure! I officially declare this is a a smoking room! It doesn't mean EVERYONE should smoke but ppl who does shouldn't be judged as ur teacher is right one of them

huh... funny it is: it's enough to open one single thread to make ppl love u But I love U back, guyz... u know!

Don't be so exited my Devil, all written above [except answers for Tom Violence's and rachelc's questions] U already know. I'm gonna add something new a bit later. Just don't have time now as it's pretty late here as well and I have loads of work to do.

queenie, sure I'll teach ya everything U want and even a bit more...

Now for those who wasn't visiting An Idea thread (U are still welcomed guys ), I'll post these 5 phrases I recordered for miss D:

Good morning - Dobraye utra
Good day - Dobriy den'
Good evening - Dobriy vecher
Good night - Dobray nochi
and finally something like 'have a calm night' or 'sweet dreams' - Spakoynay nochi

http://www.geocities.com/nrg2002ru/Dobroeutro.mp3

I'll bring something new next time. Promissed!!!
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Old 06-10-2003, 14:56   #12
coolasfcuk coolasfcuk is offline
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sunny poison, right on! I Love threads like this.... been kinda busy lately, but I will get involved here soon
Lots of people here know me as the BG that knows Russian, but let me tell you I have soooooo much more to remember(from when I studied Russian in school during commie times)/learn
how about this new one I just learned recently from the Russian forum... chmokiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii for ya sunnich for the effort to spread Ruski around.
~~~~~~~~~~~
oh... o!
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Old 06-10-2003, 22:20   #13
la aurora la aurora is offline
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hehe... thanks coolie *sends kiss back*

Ok. I'm back, guys. I really don't have a clue of how to teach anyone. I'm not a teacher I told ya. But I'm trying to do my best... I swear...

Let's organize our work a bit. I need to know the number of ppl who wants to participate actively. I mean anyone is welcomed to read this thread and ask the questions I'll try my best to answer. But those, who wants really to learn something, need to try a bit more, right? I can not only give U the examples of russian words and phrases, but also check the way U are dealing with them... correcting mistakes of the each 'student' personally. It's U to decide. I'm not going to force anyone. But a bit of interactive can be fun, don't ya think?

So, just give me the list of so-called 'active' participants, who I could always have in mind. If there are any of course

Ok. I know, the first lesson was kinda... hard So, I won't load ur brain much this time.

I'll just add one more thing about reading russian: the combination of letters 'чт' is usually read as 'шт' (sht). Don't ask me why, I'll tell you a bit later. There are still some difficult things left. So it will be the topic of another lesson.

Now some more phrases. U can use them in the beginnig or end of the talk. Heh... sure U are supposed to be able to read in russian urself already but, guess, it's still too early for that. So I added transliteration this time. Anyway, if U want to have some practice, try to read this urself. I marked sounds under the stress with the bold font. Using Lesson one, U shouldn't have any problems with everything, except 'до завтра' and 'до встречи'. I pronaunced words quite fast on the file, as U have transliteration in front of ur eyes and shouldn't have problems. If u still feel I need to pronaunce any word in particular slowly, tell me and I'll do, k?

Привет! Как дела? - Hi! How are U? (informal) [pr'iv'et! Kak d'ila?]

Possible answers ('да' means nothing in this case. U can miss it. It just means that a person can't give the exact answer and still has some doubts wich word to choose. In english it's something like 'well, not so good' for example. 'вроде' can also be missed. it's something like 'more likely' or 'at least I think so') :

[Да] нормально [вроде]. Неплохо. Хорошо [вроде]. - Normal (I'm ok). Not bad. Good. [da narmal'na vrod'i. N'iploha. Harasho.]

Отлично! Всё супер! Клёво. - Exellent! Everything is super! Cool! (also informal, as U see) [Atl'ichna! Vs'o sup'ir! Kl'ova.]

Плохо. [Да] не очень. Всё плохо. - Bad. Not very (good). Everything is bad. [Ploha. Da ni ochen'. Vs'o ploha]

Паршиво. Отстойно. Very bad (comes from 'nasty, rotten, lousy'). Very bad (comes from 'the result of settlement'. the sediment on the bootom of pure water for example. quite a popular word among MTV-kids) (both words are colloquial) [Parshiva. Atstoyna]

Бывает и хуже... но реже. - Sometimes it's worse... but rarely (in a bitter-joking way) [Bivayet i huzhi, no rezhi]

Пока не родила. Когда рожу, тогда скажу - Haven't born still... I'll tell ya when I will (Don't know... may be it's just a Moscow-thing but it's quite popular. Sure U better wouldn't say this to ur business-partner but to a friend it's ok. Some kind of teasing put in rythm. Oh, yeah, and boys use it as often as girls. It just looks even funnier ) [Paka ni rad'ila. Kagda razhu, tagda skazhu]

Ты как? А у тебя? - U? And U? [Ti kak? A U t'ib'a?]

Пока! Увидимся. До завтра. До встречи. Целую. - Bye! See U! See U 2morrow. See U ('till next meeting' word by word). Kiss (like 'I'm kissing ya good-bye') [Paka! Uv'id'ims'a. Da zaftra. Da fstr'echi. Tsiluyu.]

http://www.geocities.com/nrg2002ru/lesson2.mp3
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Old 06-10-2003, 22:21   #14
la aurora la aurora is offline
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Sure there are some other possible answers, but I can't tell u here, as they are from russian mat, and I'll be kicked out of this forum pretty soon then. Russian mat is much stronger and offencive then any english curse. Have fun!

rachelc, guess it should be something like 'gavno', d'er'mo' (both mean 'shit') U cann add 'vot' before to get something like 'what a...'. 'Eto' on the first place will give U 'this is'. U can also use 'atstoy' and some other words i can't tell u here for the reason I explaine above
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Old 06-10-2003, 23:46   #15
zebu zebu is offline
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Quote:
Let's organize our work a bit. I need to know the number of ppl who wants to participate actively. I mean anyone is welcomed to read this thread and ask the questions I'll try my best to answer. But those, who wants really to learn something, need to try a bit more, right? I can not only give U the examples of russian words and phrases, but also check the way U are dealing with them... correcting mistakes of the each 'student' personally. It's U to decide. I'm not going to force anyone. But a bit of interactive can be fun, don't ya think?
I'm signing up for the course, if you'll take me as your student

sunny u are putting great effort in this, and it's really great!
who could've though that learning can be so much fun
should I do some homework?
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Old 07-10-2003, 00:23   #16
la aurora la aurora is offline
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ufff, I'm trying my best, zebu! It's right as hard as I expected... so I knew what I was about to start and there's no way back, I'm afraid

*puts the first name into 'the students' list*

Yes, I had some kind of a homework in my mind asking about 'active members'. It comes to reading first of all. I need to see if U really get the thing or not.

Exercise 1 (the simpliest one):
I thought about giving some phrases to read without hearing me pronauncing it first.

мы продолжаем простые движенья
мы продолжаем для продолженья
не задавай эти вопросы
просто давай двигайся просто

Sounds pretty familar, right? I just took the fragment of PD that is easy enough to read (I mean things I explained above are enough to read these words 100% properly). Yes, U had the possibility to HEAR these words. That's why this is the easiest exercise U can have now. But they were sang, and I want U to read it slowly understanding why something sounds this or that way. No singing plz... it's a bit different thread

When or if U think U can easily manage this, try Exercise 2:

Люди плохи не потому, что они плохи, а потому, что они люди.

It's also easy enough as there are just few words repeating. But it will be ur first ever reading without any help Wish U luck!

U can record urself and upload ur file somewhere (nrg2002ru is still available) and post the link here, if u don't mind other students hearing it, or PM me. No offenses. It's ur choice and everyone will understand, I think. And have ur time. We are not hurrying anywhere Just try to attentive, k?

From Russia with love

Last edited by la aurora; 07-10-2003 at 00:40.
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Old 07-10-2003, 00:55   #17
la aurora la aurora is offline
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Quote:
yay, put me on the list please...
from now U are there, girl
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Old 07-10-2003, 01:19   #18
Lux Lux is offline
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thank you sunny poison!!!
this is an awesome thread. i've been meaning to learn russian for months but never got my arse in gear. this thread is much help
~~~~~~~~~~~
The Complete™ forever

I never thought it would be this clear | Lux [ light-ness@hotmail.com ]
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Old 07-10-2003, 01:22   #19
coolasfcuk coolasfcuk is offline
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okie okie okie.... I am enrolling for this class also

so... I did the recording for that first exercise - I hope people dont get that the wrong way - but I do realize I am few levels above everyone else in the class (after all I've studied Russian from 2or 3 grade till 4th or 5th, cent remember, till communism fell down - and also being Bulgarian helps a lot I think ) so anyway.... the point is... I will only do this in the begining - record myself before other people - sort of help them a little....but after that - no more helping - with such good teacher I am sure you will all be able to read on your own

Here is my file

p.s. the file got a little messed up - so couple of times it eats up parts of what I am saying... first time it is when I say: "Maybe that's just me mixing up the padezhy'. And the second time is: "I forgot to add - I have no problem with the reading...."

fuuuu, it is so much easier to speak than type
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oh... o!
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Old 07-10-2003, 01:33   #20
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You are doing a really wonderful job, sunny poison I can almost pronounce words right now

BTW, people aren't as bad as they seem to be, and it's also due to the fact that they are people
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