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Slang, result of ignorance or acceptable dialect?


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Old 24-01-2006, 20:31   #21
KillaQueen KillaQueen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darje
so wut we doin next, fellow lezbion?
we ain't doin nuthin cuz we is rockin dis place neway. lezbionz foreva, sistah! lol.
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Old 24-01-2006, 20:39   #22
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Old 24-01-2006, 20:54   #23
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i like dialect of German in switzerland
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Old 24-01-2006, 21:00   #24
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why is you usin normal english? dat's like SO borin. i ain't gonna use nuthin else in dis thred xept dis phat ass shit. straight on. no pun intended.
Amber, don't cha wanna use it too? you is a lezbion. *sings* you must stickwitus foreva...
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Old 24-01-2006, 22:04   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillaQueen
Amber, don't cha wanna use it too?
Haha. I honestly have no idea how to speak like that, seeing words butchered like that actually churns my stomach, i am quite the purist when it comes to languages.
Of course languages evolve all the time and i am open to some spelling reforms to reflect changes in pronunciation or some regularization to correct some grammar anomalies, but the kind of massacre you see in slangs are unacceptable to me, just like SMS spelling, ewww, what an abomination.
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Old 24-01-2006, 23:06   #26
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oh my, you guys! KQ, you aren't really doing ebonics thouogh not that i know ebonics that well, but for one thing i wouldnt think it's "nuthin" but something like 'nuttin' ... either way, it looks BAD ....

every language has dialecs, i am sorry, but not all brits speak 'proper' English - the dialect people speak in Yorkshire is just
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Old 24-01-2006, 23:11   #27
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ebonics.....oh boy

people tried to push ebonics into schools here in the South, and teach it as some kind of second language, but that idea failed thankfully.

It's more than just slang, or maybe it's really intricate slang, i don't know, but I hear it everyday around here and it's acceptable speech. Plus it's so popular in hip hop music and culture. But again, you wouldn't bust out in Ebonics in a college essay or speaking with the president or something

As for the African roots....learning a real African language or culture is better than just street slang, right? I think the African connection is just reaching for straws to make it sound more intellectual.


People can speak and butcher a language however they want, I don't see the problem with Ebonics as long as people know how to speak better English too.
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Last edited by cirrus; 25-01-2006 at 00:36.
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Old 25-01-2006, 00:15   #28
Linda16 Linda16 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
My grand-parents only spoke the Norman dialect (and yes, that was an actual dialect, directly derived from Latin with some Old Norse influence from the Viking settlers), they grew up in the 1900s at a time when school was rudimentary and they were never really taught French, they only spoke the dialect that had been spoken in the area for centuries.
It was different for my parents, they grew up in the 1940s and school was compulsory everywhere for everyone at the time, they picked the Norman dialect from their parents of course but they were only taught correct French at school.
And now me, i know almost nothing of the Norman dialect and i could barely understand my grand-parents, i was only taught French.
With proper education, it only takes 3 generations to shift a population to the correct language.
Although you seem to be proud of this develepoment, I consider such kind of shift "to the correct language" as a negative act. Don't you think that dialects add richness to the language? This shift "to a proper language" can be named also as a "killing of a dialect".
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Old 25-01-2006, 00:34   #29
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Quote:
so wut we doin next, fellow lezbion?
Quote:
we ain't doin nuthin cuz we is rockin dis place neway. lezbionz foreva, sistah! lol.
This thread makes me cry.
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Old 25-01-2006, 00:37   #30
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Old 25-01-2006, 02:24   #31
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LOL ^^^ I think that sums it up for most people.
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Old 25-01-2006, 02:25   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenBee
This thread makes me cry.
*pats your shoulder* don't you worry. you're still my fave straight girl. and for our ebonics speakers: "don't cha sweat dis. u still my fave ho."
omg, i'm mad. someone get me out of this addictive ebonics stage.
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Old 25-01-2006, 02:37   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda16
Although you seem to be proud of this develepoment, I consider such kind of shift "to the correct language" as a negative act. Don't you think that dialects add richness to the language? This shift "to a proper language" can be named also as a "killing of a dialect".
Well, nothing was really lost, all French dialects had evolved from the same source: vulgar Latin, they were all different but also similar, not different enough to become separate languages, but not similar enough to allow easy communication between French people. In the Middle Ages, French dialects had diverged so much that communication between French people had become quite difficult, people from Normandy could barely understand people from Aquitaine or from Burgundy, the irony being that a few centuries earlier those regions could perfectly communicate because all those people spoke the same vulgar Latin. Actually throughout the Middle Ages, educated people, the clergy, and the aristocracy often reverted to classical Latin to communicate with each other because of the understanding problems between the many French dialects.
The first purpose of a language is to allow communication between people, when that language has split into so many variants that communication is no longer possible, there is a problem.
So yes, at some point, French kings decided that it was no longer practical to continue to use classical Latin to communicate within the elite while the people spoke various French dialects and did not understand a word of Latin. It was decided that the French dialect spoken by the aristocracy in Paris would become the official French and be taught to the entire population so communication on a national level would become easy and efficient.

But again, i don't think that anything was lost because all French dialects were variations of the same theme.

Things would have been different if Norman had come from Old Norse, the language of the Vikings. From the 10th century, Vikings were the new rulers of Normandy (hence the name of the region) and thousands of Vikings settled in Normandy, but for some reason, instead of keeping Old Norse and imposing it on the local Gaulish populations, they did the opposite, Vikings abandoned Old Norse and learned the local French dialect.
If Norman had derived from Old Norse, it would have survived, just like Breton survived in Brittany, or Alsatian in Alsace, because they were non-Latin dialects and therefore significantly different and worth keeping.

But actually, the Norman dialect has not completely disappeared yet, it's still spoken by a few thousand people in Normandy and the Channel Islands of Jersey and Guernsey (the Channel Islands used to be part of the Duchy of Normandy, they were forgotten in the cession act between England and France), but just like Norman was replaced by French in Normandy, it's being replaced by English in the Channel Islands, it will probably disappear with the death of the people who currently speak it.
You can see an example of Norman on this sign at Jersey airport.
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Last edited by haku; 25-01-2006 at 02:51.
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Old 25-01-2006, 02:51   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber
You can see an example of Norman on this sign at Jersey airport.
Offtop:
Oooh my parents were there last year
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Old 25-01-2006, 03:19   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel
Anything that sounds like stuff in rap songs makes me wanna shoot myself.
*keeps a-doing it, then*
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Old 25-01-2006, 03:45   #36
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if language and culture go hand in hand, as ebonics does with african american culture, then these comments are racist. you are degrading how a certain group communicates. that is pathetic. and also, who is african american here? no one. so yeah, laugh all you want.
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Old 25-01-2006, 04:30   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darje
*keeps a-doing it, then*
Nice to know you want me dead
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Old 25-01-2006, 04:34   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
if language and culture go hand in hand, as ebonics does with african american culture, then these comments are racist. you are degrading how a certain group communicates. that is pathetic. and also, who is african american here? no one. so yeah, laugh all you want.
I'm not American, but yeah I'm fucking offended.
It is quite possible to have a serious discussion about a culture with degrading it, I know it is hard for some of you guys but the least you could do is try.

Ebonics a dialect, just the same as Cockney. I can't understand Cockney for the life of me but I'm not going to say that the people who speak it are lazy, Jesus Christ! You cannot possibly ask for people to speak proper English because that differs from country to country. AND it difffers from time to time. What the hell is "proper English," anyhow! No country can claim they speak it properly.
There's no such thing as "proper English." English is butchered one way or another.

Last edited by PowerPuff Grrl; 25-01-2006 at 04:45.
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Old 25-01-2006, 04:35   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
if language and culture go hand in hand
That's the case of all dialects in the world, have you ever seen a dialect that is not connected to a culture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
then these comments are racist.
Nothing racist was said in this thread, give me a break.

Wishing that a specific group of underprivileged children would be taught the correct way to speak a language is not racism, that's called "education".
For any other children, teaching them correct English, proper grammar and spelling is considered normal education, of course you teach kids how to speak correctly, nobody questions that, but if it's black kids… Ooh no, normal for everyone but not black kids, black kids can't learn correct English, they can only speak slang and nothing else can be taught to them. To me, this is where racism is, not the other way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux
who is african american here?
Yeah, we know your strict opinion on that, if you're not gay, you can't participate to a gay-related topic, if you're not female, you can't participate to a female-related topic, and now if you're not black, you can't participate to a black-related topic.
If we followed your rules, we wouldn't have any discussion at all because you can always find a reason why someone should not be allowed to give their opinion.

Anyway, this thread is about linguistics, and anyone interested (whatever the color of their skin) is free to answer.
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Old 25-01-2006, 04:44   #40
Rachel Rachel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl
Ebonics a dialect, just the same as Cockney. I can't understand Cockney for the life of me but I'm not going to say that the people who speak it are lazy.
I'm originally from Essex, which is right next to London (so I think I can talk about this, right?!) and the cockney talk IS lazy. Fortunately most people don't talk like that anymore, that kind of talk died out years ago. Probably because people are taught proper English in schools. I expect the only experience you have of it is over-exaggerated TV shows

I rest my case.
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