German cannibal on trial

[goku]

This is pretty big news here in Germany...


A German computer expert accused of being a real-life Hannibal Lecter made a detailed confession at the opening of his murder trial – but said he was only doing what the victim wanted.

Armin Meiwes, 42, is charged with killing, dismembering and eating the flesh of an internet acquaintance.

Meiwes, who lived in an ancient former manor house in Rotenburg, a central German town about 20 miles south east of Kassel, gave chilling testimony about how his fantasy of finding someone to become “a part of me” turned real.

He described matter-of-factly how Bernd Juergen Brandes, 43, travelled from Berlin to visit him in March 2001 in reply to an internet advertisement seeking a young man for ”slaughter and consumption”.

Meiwes said his fantasies began as a child, when he felt lonely and imagined killing and eating a “younger brother”. He said he got more than 400 responses to his internet solicitation from people who wanted to join him in acting out the fantasy.

Meiwes told the Kassel state court that he and his victim chatted for several weeks on the internet. When they met, he said, Brandes undressed.

“Now you can see my body. I hope you’ll find me tasty,” Meiwes quoted his visitor as saying. Brandes later said he wanted to be stabbed to death after drinking a bottle of cold medicine to lose consciousness, Meiwes claimed.

Meiwes said he stabbed his victim the next morning, believing he was already dead, and recorded his act on a videotape that is being used as evidence.

“I kissed him once more, prayed and pleaded for forgiveness,” Meiwes told the court.

He said he froze some of the dismembered body parts, eating the flesh over the following months, and buried others in the garden. Police who searched Meiwes’ home found human flesh and bones.

Court-appointed psychiatrists found Meiwes fit to stand trial. Prosecutors say the killing was sexually-motivated and filed murder charges, despite concluding that the killing had the victim’s consent.

Meiwes’ lawyer argued against murder charges, saying the death was a form of mercy killing. Meiwes faces life in prison if convicted of murder.

“My friend enjoyed the dying, his death,” Meiwes was quoted recently by a local newspaper.

Seeking to bolster his claim that he acted according to the wishes of others, Meiwes testified that he had at least five other respondents to his internet ads at his home but let them go – including a teacher who offered himself as a ”devoted pig for slaughter”.

Another man wanted to act out his fantasy of slaughtering co-workers. When Meiwes suspended him from a pulley-and-rope device set up in his home as part of the role playing, the man got sick and left after being freed, Meiwes said.

A man who said he wanted to be beheaded also turned up, but Meiwes said he sent him away because he was too fat and not talkative enough.

Police tracked down and arrested Meiwes last December after a student in Austria alerted them to an advertisement Meiwes placed on the internet seeking a man willing to be killed and eaten.

Thirty-eight witnesses are due to testify in the trial. A verdict is expected in February.
Deutsche Welle


This is a little freaky. What do you think?

[spyretto]

ewwwww..i heard of the story today but not the details

So there are people out there surfing the net who want to be eaten. It's oh so twisted.

[cirrus]

To be honest, I believe that if both people consented willingly to the slaughter, then what's the problem? Maybe I'm just sick, but if both people wanted to do this then how can one of them be charged with murder? It's basic human rights - living and ending your life how you want to.

However, maybe this case could become a dangerous precedent, with murderers claiming the victim wanted it. And it's also not a good moral decision to say "oh, everything is okay, if you want someone to kill you and eat you then go ahead!" But, really, it's your life...

[goku]

I can see you're reasoning cirrus, and for the most part I agree. It's like a suicide on the victim's part. But what is different is that the suspect could have stopped the victim's death, and partaking in it is like manslaughter. And there is a fine line that society has established, between basic human rights and what is okay to do. Would killers be allowed to get off free, because they're just living life how they want to? But this case is in the gray zone of that.

[spyretto]

To be honest, I believe that if both people consented willingly to the slaughter, then what's the problem? Maybe I'm just sick, but if both people wanted to do this then how can one of them be charged with murder? It's basic human rights - living and ending your life how you want to.

No, it's still a crime, although it doesn't carry the same penalty. A civilian is not supposed to take the life of another person under any circumstances.

Morally it is very wrong too. Maybe the killer was sane (?!) but did they actually investigate the mental state of the victim?

[PowerPuff Grrl]

Concerning the whole cannibal thing, as soon as I saw the headline on my newspaper I stopped reading.
I have a really weak stomach.

As for this euthanasia thing, I'm sorry but the excuse is bullsh!t to me. If a person is physically able to kill him/herself, than he/she should do it his/her-goddamn-self! If you really wanted to die, and I mean really wanted to die, how hard could it be? Pull the trigger! Leap off from the bridge! Overdose on sleeping pills! etc...

The only reason I can think for people who the die via euthanasia is for the sole purpose to screw the participant's life. And really, whoever that person is (actually willing to go into all that) deserves all the reprecussions coming to her/him. It's like; What the hell did you think was going to happen, you just murdered somebody!

Of course if the person wants to die but isn't phsycically able to do so... well, that is a whole different story.

[cirrus]

No, it's still a crime, although it doesn't carry the same penalty. A civilian is not supposed to take the life of another person under any circumstances.

Yes, according to the law. But I don't think it's a fair law. What if someone is a vegetable? Someone's gotta pull the plug, and in that way they are taking someone's life. I agree that we shouldn't decide when someone's time is up (in most cases), but the dead man decided himself. The problem is that he wanted someone to help him.

Morally it is very wrong too.

Morals are subjective. They depend on the person. For you, this is a sickening crime. For me, this is a sickening act. I don't see it as a crime on the same level as, say, a serial killer who murders his victims against their will.

The victim's and cannibal's mental state aren't certain yet. I could easily see them as BOTH being crazy, or maybe they have a radically different moral perspective on life.

And really, whoever that person is (actually willing to go into all that) deserves all the reprecussions coming to her/him. It's like; What the hell did you think was going to happen, you just murdered somebody!

I don't agree. I see euthanasia as a right that is forbidden to people because of someone's morals. No one has the right to say that "you can't kill yourself." and how is it wrong to end someone's life when they want it to end, but can't do it themselves. "Oh, sorry, you're just gonna have to stay alive then." Assissted suicide is NOT murder, and people DO NOT deserve all the repercussions just because they were willing to take such a drastic step in fullfilling someone's wish, knowing that it would upset many people.

I also don't understand why the man just didn't kill himself, and who in their right mind would put an add in the paper or online asking for victims?! These people sound wacko, but in terms of law, I view their actions as legal. And I think that is the main issue in this case. I don't know German law, but it sounds like someone committed a horrible act that may not be so illegal, especially if there is documented evidence of the victim agreeing to this. The problem is that it goes against common morals and longheld opinions on society and life. I think this man will most definitaly be punished, but some of that punishment will be society damning this man's morals so theirs can remain intact.

I know, I know, I have no morals and I'm going to Hell for this...

[DAZ]

The one thing that also struck me about this case is that SIX other people applied to be eaten but the guy who placed the advert and ate the other guy discounted them as he thought THEY were too weird

*Edit*Having now read the initial post all the way through i see they were mentioned

[Mossopp]

I don't understand why the killer turned one of his potential victims away because the guy wasn't talkative enough! What's that about?? Was he planning to discuss current events with his victim while he was chopping him up into little pieces?!

[QueenBee]

This is... strange.

[Lux]

i don't feel as its a crime. socially, it should be a crime because someone is killing someone else regardless of consent. but personally, if someone wants this to be done to them so be it.

as for assisted suicide, my stance is likewise.

[goku]

Originally posted by Mossopp
I don't understand why the killer turned one of his potential victims away because the guy wasn't talkative enough! What's that about?? Was he planning to discuss current events with his victim while he was chopping him up into little pieces?!

The suspect isn't an outright killer. He just wants to live out his fantasies, one of them being eating someone. If someone that is untalkative isn't fullfilling that fantasy, then there is no point in killing them.

[spyretto]

No cirrus, you have morals but I think you're wrong. If morality is something subjective, then the law based on moral assumptions can also be subjective. It's not something that grows out of a tree. Even if it's legal now a new law will render it illegal. That's why it will make legal history.
I also agree that euthanasia under extremely rare circumstances could be legal but in this case it's a joke, the guy who agreed to be slaughtered was fully fit physically ( though I don't know about his mental state ). It's not illegal euthanasia, it's not manslaughter, it's murder. He was also eaten , so it was murder with a motive with intent, not to mention the rest.
And after all, even if that person was a vegetable, the person who decided to carry out that wish is not qualified to do so, and has no right to do so. Legal euthanasia should be perfomed under extremely rare circumstances and by professionals - for terminal cases and to cease suffering - though I'm against it too. What kind of terminal case was this guy?

i don't feel as its a crime. socially, it should be a crime because someone is killing someone else regardless of consent. but personally, if someone wants this to be done to them so be it.

as for assisted suicide, my stance is likewise.

I think your view is quite irresponsible, excuse me for saying that.

[Lux]

spyretto - none taken. i am not responsible for society.
i can't impose my personal views onto societal views. for example, abortion. i am prolife but what is the states' stance? it is illegal. same goes for prostitution. personally i think it's alright, and socially i think it isnt a crime either but it's still illegal in 49 states.

check this out
Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Society by Peter McWilliams

[spyretto]

me neither, but do you really believe that?

[Lux]

my opinions are as stated.

[cirrus]

No cirrus, you have morals but I think you're wrong. If morality is something subjective, then the law based on moral assumptions can also be subjective. It's not something that grows out of a tree. Even if it's legal now a new law will render it illegal. That's why it will make legal history.

Laws based on morality reflect the morals of the majority, the public. If two people wish to commit an act that does not affect the rest of the population, as gruesome as it is, I don't believe it deserves to be treated has a horrific murder. I think this man could be charged with assisted suicide, because as a murder it was consensual.

But I respect your opinions on the situation. I've often said I'd make a bad public figure, because my views tend to focus on individuals and their rights, rather than what's good for society as a whole. I don't think things like this should be legal, yet also believe that people have the right to manage their life as they wish.

[goku]

Originally posted by cirrus
I don't think things like this should be legal, yet also believe that people have the right to manage their life as they wish.

I agree. And for most countries, to an extent this is true. But each one views what is right and wrong a little differently, and how much power the people and the state have.