Unofficial site of group TATU


Unofficial forum of group TATU
Go Back   Unofficial forum of group TATU General Forum Politics and Science


In God We Trust - Why Atheists Cannot Be Americans


ReplyPost New Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 19-10-2004, 00:13   #1
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
In God We Trust - Why Atheists Cannot Be Americans

http://www.tamboli.com/jay/god.html

Interesting dillema.

Seriosuly, "In God We Trust" quite is a serious slap in the face to all the non-christians, in a country that is TERRIBLY diverse. it probably wouldn't even show as much in Europe since European countries are much more homogenized then the former british collonies. And what happened to that all important separation between the goverment and the church? It's one of the key ingrediants to a solid liberal regime, yet here it seems the lines between the two might have been blured a bit.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2004, 00:20   #2
Kate Kate is offline
Участник
 
Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London, UK
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,591

Aaaaaaaaaawww... Poor Americans... like there's nothing more important to worry about. Lol.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2004, 16:57   #3
thegurgi thegurgi is offline
no....
 
thegurgi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lansing, MI
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,861

i'm really getting sick of this
  Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2004, 19:07   #4
DAZ DAZ is offline
Lazy
 
DAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ayr,Scotland
Posts: 273

In a similar vein...

The British National Anthem is God Save the Queen with the line "Rebellious Scots to crush"..It's like what?I'm supposed to crush myself?
~~~~~~~~~~~
Everybodys born to do a certain thing,If you're dead jammy you find it.
If you're good at it keep doing it.If you're fed up go and do something else.
We're really only here to look after the place
  Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2004, 23:08   #5
Khartoun2004 Khartoun2004 is offline
Gaga ftw!
 
Khartoun2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Providence, RI USA
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,806

Send a message via AIM to Khartoun2004 Send a message via MSN to Khartoun2004 Send a message via Skype™ to Khartoun2004
ok I'm with thegurgi. I'm really getting sick of these arguments. I'm an atheist, but the fact that our money and pledge include "God" doesn't make me feel second class. What makes me feel second class is the fact that because of "God" being mentioned in everything and on everything in this country, the religious right seems to think that they found this wonderful country known as the Untied States of America. Well, guess again, they didn't. It was founded by a group of Unitarian Universalists (ie: Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, the list could go on...) not by the Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormans, and anyother major religion in the world. Seperation of church and state was added to the constitution to ensure that people would not feel alienated because of different religious beliefs. Fight for your rights.

My point is, the Atheists and non-christians in this country should stop bitching about it and start being pro-active. If the word "god" really makes you feel second-class, take it to the courts and vote against Bush on November 2. Re-establish the checks and balances of the government.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Alexander
EPIC!!!!!!
Velvet ropes and guitars
Yeah, cause you're my rock star in between the sets
Eyeliner and cigarettes
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2004, 02:55   #6
ypsidan04 ypsidan04 is offline
********
 
ypsidan04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,156

Send a message via AIM to ypsidan04
You just now realized that hypocrisy exists in Washington?
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2004, 05:48   #7
Taty_rox Taty_rox is offline
Участник
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fuck You All :)
Gender: Female
Posts: 201

I am atheist and I don't complain about the way things are... it's when people shove it in my face is when I get upset. Like my parents wedding... I was 6 and I still remember... I wanted to kill the priest... .
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2004, 06:04   #8
goku goku is offline
Moderator
 
goku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Москва
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 778

Everyone has a real point. This is encouraging.

I'm gonna agree with Khartoun2004 here. It wouldn't bother me, but if it does bother someone and they wanted God taken out, they're not going to get much support from a conservative supreme court and white house. Vote for your right by voting in the election.

However, remember that 'God' has not always been a part of the American money and pledge of allegiance. The founding fathers, like Khartoun2004 said, were actually against putting it in the Constitution, and strongly believed in seperation of church and state. It wasn't until the 1950s that God was added to the pledge and monetary units. Whether it will get banned we'll just have to see; there are a lot of supports for it staying, however public prayer got banned from schools...
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2004, 19:45   #9
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
The core of the people that might get offended by this are not the atheist, but rather people of other religions. Atheists will just dismiss it... they don't belive in god, it's none of their concern. BUT... the god that's being mentioned in this statement is surely one specific god. The god of the Roman catolic christians. And that might be considered offensive or even opresive by people who belive in a different god, yet are just as spiritual and commited to their own religion as the christians are to theirs. They might get the feeling like christianity is being shoved down their throats.

And besides... this isn't even ABOUT people getting offended or not in the first place. It's about a basic question of one country's establishment... a seperation between the goverment and the church. There shouldn't even be any HINTS of connection between the two. As soon as there is you might think the US politics is being heavily influenced by the powerful christian forces inside the country.

Last edited by freddie; 28-10-2004 at 22:29.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2004, 22:40   #10
Khartoun2004 Khartoun2004 is offline
Gaga ftw!
 
Khartoun2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Providence, RI USA
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,806

Send a message via AIM to Khartoun2004 Send a message via MSN to Khartoun2004 Send a message via Skype™ to Khartoun2004
Freddie well said. Even Bush in the third debate said that his faith in "God" helped him make his decisions, ect. He also eluded to the fact that he thought was doing "God's" work. If people in this country had half a brain they'd realize those statements alone should disqualify Bush for the office of President.

The President is supposed to uphold the laws of the land and the Constitution. "God" therefore should play no part in his decision making process. His decisions should be based on reason and reality. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "god" or any other higher power has no place in American courts, or legislature. It goes against everything our predecesors died and struggled for. The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves I'm sure.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Alexander
EPIC!!!!!!
Velvet ropes and guitars
Yeah, cause you're my rock star in between the sets
Eyeliner and cigarettes
  Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2004, 22:34   #11
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
I'm sure he doesn't even REALIZE how very dangerous those words are. He's really proclaiming a war against a different religion and gives thumbs up to the radicals who falsely want to portray American presence in Iraq as a "holly war" of christianity against islam and the west against the arab world.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2004, 01:23   #12
ypsidan04 ypsidan04 is offline
********
 
ypsidan04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,156

Send a message via AIM to ypsidan04
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khartoun2004
Freddie well said. Even Bush in the third debate said that his faith in "God" helped him make his decisions, ect. He also eluded to the fact that he thought was doing "God's" work. If people in this country had half a brain they'd realize those statements alone should disqualify Bush for the office of President.
Some anonymous American once told him: "I feel like this is the first time that God has really been in the White House"



If you've read Michael Moore's "Dude, Where's My Country", or even if you haven't read it, notice that there's a chapter entitled "Jesus W. Christ".
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
I'm sure he doesn't even REALIZE how very dangerous those words are. He's really proclaiming a war against a different religion and gives thumbs up to the radicals who falsely want to portray American presence in Iraq as a "holly war" of christianity against islam and the west against the arab world.
Yes, he doesn't realize that "Holy War" really means something to people over there. Here, it's just simple rhetoric.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2004, 01:48   #13
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
Quote:
Originally Posted by ypsidan04
Yes, he doesn't realize that "Holy War" really means something to people over there. Here, it's just simple rhetoric.
Well to an average Arab that rhetoric will mean that Bush is simply picking up where the pope Urban II left of in the crusades.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2004, 02:42   #14
haku haku is offline
iMod
 
haku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Normandie
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,839

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie
Well to an average Arab that rhetoric will mean that Bush is simply picking up where the pope Urban II left of in the crusades.
Which is easy for Arab people to think since Bush actually said several times that the war in Iraq (and against terrorism) was a new *crusade*, he said this very word several times, that was a stupid thing to say. I know for a fact that those sentences of Bush have been played thousands of times on Arab news channel, Arab populations think that Bush has launched a new crusade against Muslims to convert them to christianism.

Sometimes i wonder if Bush realizes that Arab people also have satelite TV and actually hear all the stupid things he says on American channels.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Patrick | TatySite.net t.E.A.m. [ shortdickman@free.fr ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2004, 03:48   #15
freddie freddie is offline
Sad Little Monkey
 
freddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slovenia
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,736

Send a message via AIM to freddie Send a message via MSN to freddie Send a message via Yahoo to freddie
Well... the official reason for the crusades was christianization of muslims, but the REAL reason was muslim riches that Pope wanted to... acumulate. And in that sense Bush was not that far of.
  Reply With Quote
ReplyPost New Thread

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ne Ver, Ne Boysya (mp3, lyrics w. translation) yul News and Events 308 19-05-2021 11:03
t.A.T.u./Тату Lyrics Echoed News and Events 29 21-12-2009 22:37
Christian beliefs and trust in the bible Rachel Politics and Science 14 28-04-2006 20:29
"Dont trust the voices" MassMedia News and Events 16 26-05-2003 18:29
Are Americans gonna want to see another 2+ year old t.A.T.u Video? Vicious News and Events 34 01-03-2003 18:45



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:08.




© 2001-2008 Unofficial site of group TATU

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.