USA - General discussion (Part 2)

[freddie]

A major turning point in history no doubt.

A very vital step towards moderate politics and let me just say I personally think Nov.4th 2008 will go down in history as the date 2nd cold war was prevented and also a day capital stopped having a dictatorship over US politics (although it will no doubt still be present in decision making - those 1.5 billion dolars don't come out of thin air). One danger I see is people expecting too much too soon. Not all problems will fix itself magically over night. Disillusionment is bound to happen. Only countries where they're really absolutely "satisfied" with their leaders long-term are hard-core dictatorships a la Russia/North Korea/China.

[little_polar_bear]

YES. Very touching and good speech, Obama! Good luck for realizing change furthermore!

[PowerPuff Grrl]

Originally Posted by freddie

A major turning point in history no doubt.

A very vital step towards moderate politics and let me just say I personally think Nov.4th 2008 will go down in history as the date 2nd cold war was prevented and also a day capital stopped having a dictatorship over US politics (although it will no doubt still be present in decision making - those 1.5 billion dolars don't come out of thin air). One danger I see is people expecting too much too soon. Not all problems will fix itself magically over night. Disillusionment is bound to happen. Only countries where they're really absolutely "satisfied" with their leaders long-term are hard-core dictatorships a la Russia/North Korea/China.

One step at a time freddie, Americans no longer have to cry themselves to sleep. At the very least, this president will be competent and surround himself with other competent, but diverse staff members.

I went to sleep when Ohio went blue, knowing Obama now had the electoral votes to win with the West Coast still pending, but hot dang Virginia, North Carolina, Colorado, and Nevada all went blue too?!!!!! It was so freaking swift!

Unfortunately, Prop 8 looks likely to pass in California.
That really, really sucks.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by PowerPuff Grrl

One step at a time freddie, Americans no longer have to cry themselves to sleep. At the very least, this president will be competent and surround himself with other competent, but diverse staff members.

I know, I know. And I expect him to deliver fully on that note. But seeing people huging each other in the middle of the street, tearful reverant Jessie Jackson, a mass of people devotedly sucking up every word of his victory speech... it made me sort of worried. He morphed from a popular politician to an almost messiah-like figure in the eyes of most people. And that will be hard to fulfill fully once the real world kicks in. Again I have absolutely no doubt he'll be one of the best - if not the best presidents America has ever had. But will it be enough for people who expect literaly miracles from him?

I do hope it'll be enough for a second term though. Cause you know what they say... once you go black...

Obama Rolling
True to his word...

[coolasfcuk]

freddie, let the people celebrate!!!! yesterday was a huge day wtf!
no one expects him to snap his fingers in jan and things to be pink and pretty- he even emphasized that in his speech ....
about your earlier georgia comment- i know you're a nice guys and dont take this the wrong way, but it is such an ex BALKAN white man comment! sorry, but i am also going on knowledge of how people in bulgaria i know feel.."oh... they will NEVER elect a black guy...." well guess what, this time it wasnt about race.... dig up statistics if you'd like (no time to do so), but what was more important for the voters was AGE... not RACE! i mean obama is winning in places un-thought of- white, suburban america....the hispanic population (which is now huge, and may i add statistically shouldnt be in favor of blacks).... ALL types of people ... and yes, as predicted he took the independents pretty much fully..... america isn't just JOE the mother fucking plumber (god, am i happy this fictional character just died!) - what an insult from McCain's camp.... america is diverse.... very diverse... and this election finally showed it.
Obama is @ 349 el votes at the moment with 2 more states being counted...Missouri will most likely go to McC, putting him @ 174 and North Carolina will go to Obama, putting him @ 364 !!! this is basically a KILLER win... last 2 elections that ive seen here bush won one with 271 and one with 284 ....

anyways, of course there is LOTS... LOTS more to be asked about change....but it's a great step- as a resident of CA, it is killing me and i cannot comprehend how is it possible that a chicken has more rights than a human being?!?!?!? HOW?! im saying this as prop 2 passed (to stop animal cruelty) and prop 8 (ban on gay marriage) did as well .... it was great to hear obama include ALL types of people in his speech though (gays included)... so, the fight continues....

[coolasfcuk]

oh on a totally lighter and FUN note i wanted to add that Michelle Obama was wearing a Narciso Rodriguez dress from his critically acclaimed Spring 2009 collection ... Loveeeeeeeeee her ... Watch out Carla Bruni-Sarkozy. America is back

[Talyubittu]

On another happy note, Measure 11 (banning abortion) failed to pass in South Dakota for the second time. It failed by a 10% margin of 55 to 45%.

[Khartoun2004]

And Massachusetts decriminalized Marijuana
Honestly I thought CA or NY would Decriminalize pot long before the most puritanical of the New England States would. But I was proven wrong... watch 2010 will see RI, VT and NH doing it as well.

Oh and Rhode Island is officially the Bluest State with only 11 Republicans left in State Politics. Governor, 5 State House Reps and 5 State Senators... they are seriously going to be an extinct party here in another couple years.

[thegurgi]

Originally Posted by Khartoun2004

And Massachusetts decriminalized Marijuana

alright, i'm moving to boston.

[Khartoun2004]

Originally Posted by thegurgi

alright, i'm moving to boston.

Seriously for a state that only just started allowing liquor to be sold on Sunday a few years ago, I'm shocked they passed it. But yeah we should all move to Boston and start a massive clean up project because that city is UGLY.

[thegurgi]

Originally Posted by Khartoun2004

start a massive clean up project because that city is UGLY.

it can't be any uglier than Philadelphia and SE DC. haha, how are property prices? haha... i'm kidding. I can't really afford a move to a different city right now. But, maybe may next ventures can get me up there...

I won't talk about my opinions on this election. as i'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative. i'm very curious about the next 4 years and i hope i can go to the inauguration... seeing as work like 5 blocks from the national mall.

[coolasfcuk]

i mean ... i see you guys are joking, BUT the truth of the matter is.... chickens, pigs, drugs and shit like that got favored, while human rights for equality got denied!
ive been progressively been getting angrier throughout the day... and am SO pissed i am not in CA @ this moment so that i can participate in one of those rallys, which are happening in basically every city- LA, SF, San diego, Sacramento .... that's right conservative, god worshiping motherfucking christinas (i apologize to all christians but i cannot NOT explode here for a sec)- the young people simply will NOT tolerate that kind of discrimination... it's only a mater of TIME!

[freddie]

Hmm... I would consider it a breach of human rights in case gays didn't have any other alternatives. But their unions would still be recognized as legally equal to marriages, right? Otherwise... who cares what they call it? As logn as society recognizes the union in the first place, I have no problem with that. It's purely symbolic. For instance I have absolutely no desire of getting married since I think it's an obsolete and back-wards ritual, that psychologically chains people together, while I would definitely share my life with someone and mate for life, but without this needless pressure in the background.

Sure I still understand gays somewhat, wanting to be 100% equal to straight couples, even if it's just a symbolic gesture and of course it's really amusing how certain religious organizations should care that much about the issue of sanctity of marriage (just goes to show you how we're all self-serving hypocrits), but I wouldn't go as far as calling it "denying people human equality", since an alternative is offered. Sometimes it's just not worth it trying to shovel shit against the tide and most of my gay friends agree with me on this issue.

[Khartoun2004]

Originally Posted by coolasfcuk

i mean ... i see you guys are joking, BUT the truth of the matter is.... chickens, pigs, drugs and shit like that got favored, while human rights for equality got denied!
ive been progressively been getting angrier throughout the day... and am SO pissed i am not in CA @ this moment so that i can participate in one of those rallys, which are happening in basically every city- LA, SF, San diego, Sacramento .... that's right conservative, god worshiping motherfucking christinas (i apologize to all christians but i cannot NOT explode here for a sec)- the young people simply will NOT tolerate that kind of discrimination... it's only a mater of TIME!

The problem with California is that people in the cities are really Liberal and all for equal rights... but then when you get out to the suburbs and rural areas and the ghettos... the people are other stuck up hoes or just ignorant and prejudice.

I don't think California is ready for Marriage Equality. In Massachusetts if a vote came up now, any mention of banning Marriage Equality would be easily shot down by the general public. New Englanders tend to be more liberal across the entirety of the states, rather than just in the major cities. Not to mention all of Romney's attempts to get an amendment passed the legislature to allow a vote, never made it out of the Constitutional Convention to begin with. SO our politicians were behind it.

I'm not so sure that is the case in California. But we shall see what happens. There is always the Supreme Court and hopefully by the time it gets there Obama will have replaced some of those old conservatives.

[volk1]

Originally Posted by freddie

Sure I still understand gays somewhat, wanting to be 100% equal to straight couples, even if it's just a symbolic gesture and of course it's really amusing how certain religious organizations should care that much about the issue of sanctity of marriage (just goes to show you how we're all self-serving hypocrits), but I wouldn't go as far as calling it "denying people human equality", since an alternative is offered. Sometimes it's just not worth it trying to shovel shit against the tide and most of my gay friends agree with me on this issue.

I think it's bullshit.
It's like the whole "Separate but equal" concept.

[Khartoun2004]

Of course it's not really over California... yeah they passed Prop 8, but CA's laws concerning constitutional amendenments are screwy. There are two ways to Amend the constitution. 1: constitutional amends (like prop 8) that don't change the spirit of the constitution, but change say something like needing a 2/3 majority in the house to pass a budget. Stupid Shit.

Then there is an amendment that changes the actual wording and spirit of the constitution which can only be done in a Con Con and then must be passed by a 2/3 majority by the population of CA. Prop 8 was not this type of amendment.

So essentially the wording of the Supreme Court decision back in July, said that Gays had a fundamental constitutional right to marry. Therefore the SC can actually strike down Prop 8 because it goes against the spirit of the constitution and is the wrong type of Amendment. In other words people, calm down... I don't think that the SC is going to allow it to stand after they just said it was a right. Have faith and be patient... be proactive, send letters, stage peaceful protests... This is by no means the end of marriage equality in the state. Especially since Prop 8 barely passed and the type of amendment needed has to pass a con con... and if it does, there is not enough support in the state to pass a ban by 2/3 majority.

[uykusuz]

I'm not interested in USA's domestic policies but International policies especially Middle East.
And I dont think there will be a CHANGE. There will be no discontinuity between Bush and Obama's policies, Cause i do think that US International policies are not determined by the president.

8 years ago, someone needed Bush..(expansion!)
And now Obama was the man who is needed.(it's enough for now, let's stabilize)

Maybe Obama will call US Army back home (and if he does so, i think that will cause a disaster in Iraq) but USA has already got what they wanted, big petroleum contracts and such.. Now they will want to look "sweet" to public of region with their new president (whose middle name is Husayn, whose father is/was Muslim) although they killed more than 1 million so far for their "sacred" mission of bringing democracy to Iraqian people.

For me, he is just the new pawn.

[Khartoun2004]

Originally Posted by uykusuz

I'm not interested in USA's domestic policies but International policies especially Middle East.
And I dont think there will be a CHANGE. There will be no discontinuity between Bush and Obama's policies, Cause i do think that US International policies are not determined by the president.

8 years ago, someone needed Bush..(expansion!)
And now Obama was the man who is needed.(it's enough for now, let's stabilize)

Maybe Obama will call US Army back home (and if he does so, i think that will cause a disaster in Iraq) but USA has already got what they wanted, big petroleum contracts and such.. Now they will want to look "sweet" to public of region with their new president (whose middle name is Husayn, whose father is/was Muslim) although they killed more than 1 million so far for their "sacred" mission of bringing democracy to Iraqian people.

For me, he is just the new pawn.

Dude, first of all Obama is not Muslim, so get over it. You said yourself that you're not interested in our domestic politics, when those are the very ideals that shape our international policy.

The President sets the tone for our interaction on the global stage. Obama will change our current policy which by the way is called the Bush Doctrine since it so completely different from any other President's policy, though it really should have been called the Cheney Doctrine. No one in this country is happy with the direction our country is going in. That is why Obama did not just win this election, he got a Mandate from the people to lead. 349 electoral votes is quite a feat, especially when the last couple elections have been sooo close.

Bush was a pawn because he's retarded. McCain would have been a pawn because he's old. Obama will be a true leader worthy of the comparisons to JFK, FDR, Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

[freddie]

Originally Posted by Khartoun2004

Bush was a pawn because he's retarded. McCain would have been a pawn because he's old. Obama will be a true leader worthy of the comparisons to JFK, FDR, Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

I don't think Bush is retarded. He's actually dyslexic imo. That's why he came off as an idiot on so many occasions. But people underestimate just how smart the guy really is. His simplistic guy-next-door demeanour is actually quite manipulative and it's probably one of the reasons behind his rather surprising re-election. No doubt he did a horrible job as a president and got manipulated himself by capital players from teh background, but still... far from retarded.

[Talyubittu]

Originally Posted by freddie

I don't think Bush is retarded. He's actually dyslexic imo. That's why he came off as an idiot on so many occasions. But people underestimate just how smart the guy really is. His simplistic guy-next-door demeanour is actually quite manipulative and it's probably one of the reasons behind his rather surprising re-election. No doubt he did a horrible job as a president and got manipulated himself by capital players from teh background, but still... far from retarded.

What does Dyslexia have to do with Bush and his inability to run a country? Other than his speaking skills, nothing. Bush is an idiot when it comes to foreign policy - totally ignorant of various world cultures and not even wanting to realize their existence if they stand between his oil and his goal of establishing a Christian democracy somewhere in the world. Bush has no understanding of the economy, he simply things that printing more money and raising taxes will fix the never-ending national debt he's sank us into. His simplistic "guy-next-door" demeanor is nothing more than his lack of intelligence shinning through his blank face. He is a failure as a president, and a primary cause for the ruination of American politics and what America is supposed to stand for.