Learning Russian with SP

[denial]

sunny poison, lol .. spasiba! spasiba!

Well .. I thought you were tired .. so I went to re-read about the 'o' and 'e' without stress. Then I saw this.

Either way 'о' will sound as 'a' [or something between these two] and 'е' will sound as 'i'

Yes and I got that spasibi.. LOL .. *is ashamed* LOL ..but spasiba again for more details explaination and correcting my sound.. I still need to practice my pronounciation more..

I'm still slow to read because I'm thinking of all the rules there .. (Thank God I did the learning the cyrillic before) ..so yes this beginning gonna take sometimes for me .. I'm going to read the whole thread and re-read again to collect notes .. .. I love it ..

I'll send you again when I think I am better pronouncing .

Btw, dont get yourself too tired with this class okay. Remember you are a student too. We all can always wait. *rose* ...maybe someday ..I'll write and read you a Russian love poetry.

What is this? Please, no flirting in the classroom! Not like I'm jelous...

oh okay!! LOL *peeks at Queenbee's homework* ..so what you got there?

Anyone seen Nathalie around?

Cools thank you for the compliment on my notes. I plan to collect it at my homepage. See my profile. but I need to add and fix and rescan ..LOL ..its excellence when I am at work or anywhere with internet access I can always look at it.
Need to re-organized that homepage too.


OMG! .. cycrilic handwriting.. I love it! wo! dreams come true.
*kiss kiss kiss SP* .... to Moscow with love ...


and focus.

-Denial

[la aurora]

Lesson 3

So, guys, guess we need to finish with the consonants today. U learned already that most of them can have soft and firm forms, some always stay soft, others are always firm.

Just a small note for those, who still has difficulties with pronauncing soft and firm consonant sounds: to make the consonant sound softer, U need to lift the middle part of ur tongue toward ur 'hard palate' (u can determine where your hard palate is by pronouncing the sound 'j' like in "yes": it is where your tongue touches the upper jaw). So, to make the consonant sound firmer, just leave ur tongue down.

But the problem is that consonants are divided not into soft and firm only. They can be voiced and unvoiced. And this thing is really important, as it can change the meaning of the word. Let's see what we have here:

12 consonants can be divided into 6 pairs this way:
voiced - unvoiced
б - п
в - ф
г - к
д - т
ж - ш
з - с

These are voiced and don't have unvoiced pair: й, л, м, н, р

These are unvoiced and don't have voiced pair: х, ц, ч, щ

But futher we'll be talking only about these 6 pairs as they are the only ones U can have difficulties with. Why? Damn, coz from time to time these bustards sound like each other. Sometimes 'б' is written, but U have to read it like 'п' or vice versa and so on... Now I'll try to explain when it happens.

[coolasfcuk]

coolasfcuk I'll do anything for you you'll teach me some bulgarian then ?

he heeeeeeeeeeee, one more that wants to learn a lil Bulgarian. sasha, I will teach you some with sunnich - anything for you too Tonight I will try to record the few words I know in Swedish - pretty much learned by watching 'Fucking Amal' + self teaching myself online and maybe start simple BG lessons. The way you speak Russian - I dont think you will have any problems with BG either.

I will also try to upload vesica's files where I upload mine - maybe that would help - I am not sure what is wrong with them

edit: I made the worst mistake in English - I hate myself when I do this... must've been really tired....not 'a think for swedish', but 'a thing for swedish'! Feeeewwwwww

[la aurora]

Remember:

voiced consonant sounds unvoiced when:

- it's the last letter of the word (for example хлеб /bread/ sounds like хлеп. But if this word is a part of the sentence and next word starts with vocal or voiced consonant)
- it's followed by unvoiced consonant (4 example завтра /tomorrow/ sounds like зафтра as 'т' is unvoiced and it influents the previous voiced letter 'в' changing it to unvoiced 'ф')

(so voiced sound stayes voiced if it's followed by vocal or another voiced consonant)

But sometimes it's vice versa - unvoiced consonant suddenly sounds voiced. It happens when:

- the letter is followed by voiced consonant. No matter if it happens in one word, or it's just the last letter of the word and next word starts with the voiced consonant. In both cases unvoced changes to voiced. (4 example футбол sounds like фудбол. наш дом sounds like наж дом)

*watches some students standing up and leaving the classroom*

Hey, guys! Come back!!! It's not as difficult as it seems. Just 6 pairs to remember...
http://www.geocities.com/nrg2002ru/consonants2.mp3

[la aurora]

And finally... one more thing to remember . There are combinations of consonants that sound different from what they look. Sometimes a consonant just dissapears when U read and sometimes it just sounds a bit different. Such combinations exist in many languages (english included), so be patient and just learn this. I tried to make things easier so I've found a table for ya. U can find it here http://www.geocities.com/nrg2002ru/combinations.html

That's all for today. Guys, have to congratulate you. You CAN read russian now There are some problems with the stress (have to learn by heart, sorry) and intonation (need to learn some words before) still. But it's another story, U know...

Из России с любовью

[la aurora]

Denial, being slow is good in this case. At least U won't forget what U learned today after waking up next morning

coolie, so guess now U need to open 'Learning Bulgarian with CaF' i'm sure sasha and me aren't the only ones who wouldn't mind some bulgarian practice

[zebu]

*watches some students standing up and leaving the classroom*

we won't give up that easily, right guys? with such a great teacher who would leave the classroom

sunny I just saw the pic,you have a very nice handwriting. I noticed it's quite different than the fonts on screen(I don't know hot to say it in English), is there a big difference?

I remembered trying to read some letters in Croatian written in cyrillic by some of my Eastern relatives and not being able to read normally.

*goes off to learn lesson 3*

[coolasfcuk]

BOOO, am I the only one that can't view sunny's handwritting!!! it says error, and I've tried everything - copying, pasting, refreshing, etc.

But from what you're saying zebu, I am guessing some of the letters are written in cursive. In Cyrillic, cursive and typed could look totaly different also there could be big difference between small and capital letters.

[zebu]

coolasfcuk yes, a big difference and I don't know how to read the cursive, in the elementary during Yugoslavia we had to learn cyrillic because of the serbia, but I never learned how to read cursive

[la aurora]

http://www.geocities.com/nrg2002ru/handwriting.html

it should work. sorry for the damn geocities advertizing. Oh, yeah, and this file is at actual size. previous one was rather big

[russkayatatu]

Hello sunny poison, cool, everyone...after your kind invitation how can I stay away now?? I think this thread is a great idea and Val, you're doing a fantastic job - I like the answers to "как дела?" especially although I'd watch out with some of the later ones if you're talking to older adults...speaking from experience

Anyway, I am not Russian, but I haven't come here before because I already know Russian, or at least went through a course in it three years ago...now I don't speak it much, and my vocabulary sucks as coolasfcuk can tell you but otherwise I know it pretty well. Plus I remember sitting in a classroom and having to learn all this stuff - I mean I remember how it was taught and what it looks like to non-Slavic people - so if that viewpoint can be useful I'll be glad to do anything to help out Or anything else...really anything you need.

As for uploading, well...heh...I've been trying to record and post a file for most of the day now - so far I have a .wav file but I still need to figure out how to compress it and upload it...which I am still working on. Sooooo, will post as soon as I can.

Btw...one more for a possible BG (or Swedish) class - will do anything for ya in return, just ask

[spyretto]

Hey, I've got a little question about stresses.

If the 'o' is always weak unless there's a stress over it, shouldn't Волкова be pronounced Volkava and not Volkova? ( I've heard about that rule before but perhaps names are excluded? )

Excuse my ignorance

Well, keep up the good work SP!

edit: russkayatatu what happened to your message?

[rachelc]

Okay, sorry to bore you with this question of Russian surnames, but I'm just watching the tennis at Filderstadt, so it's preoccupying me. Sharapova, Kournikova, Dementieva - I'd guess that the stress fell on the second syllable every time - oh, and the same goes for Myskina - (ah no sorry first syllable for her)but does it?

Also - "Doschitai da sta" (Forgive the crapy English transcription). How come it's pronounced "sta" here and then later Lena sings "sto adeen, sto adeen"...I can definitely smell a rule here.

[coolasfcuk]

Been busy with work last night and am busy today, so not too much time to post.

russkaya welcome in the class. your vocabulary is good and definatelly better than mine that wav file...you can send it to me if you want, but to the addy that is in my signature @abv.bg please - I can make it an mp3 and upload it for ya.

sasha, sunnich, thanks for making that 'hand writting' link work for me

zebu that is 'cursive'. Well, since I am preparing to open the 'Learn Bulgarian' thread - I quickly wrote the Bulgarian Cyrillic alphabet - it is exactly the same as the Russian one + the Russian one has 3 additional letters - so it will work in a way.....
So here is the link to it

Cyrillic Alphabet -BG

Line #1 is Typed Capital letters, Line #2 is Typed Small letters, Line #3 is Cursive Capital letters, and line #4 is Cursive Small letters.
My cursive is not too good - that's because I went to special, experimental grade school - where we were thought only Typed writting until 4th grade - so really - I never learned how to/got used to writing in cursive

hope that helped a little.

[denial]

coolasfcuk, thank you very much for that Cyrillic hand writting! Is that same as Russian hand writting. I have to steal it and put it on my homepage too. Thanks again. BUT I can't study BG now I get confused. lol ..

oh !

I love all of you ..

sasha, take care..

[elf]

Originally posted by sasha
one stupid question though:
if a russian word ends with for example сд how do I pronounce that? [/b]

Hi sasha

Actaully it's a very interresting question. There are 2 different ways of pronouncing it. If the word 'яд' is on its own (which means poison as you probably know ) and in some rare occasionses where a vovel preceeds 'я', it is pronounced as it is in "Ya Soshla S Uma": 'yad' "йад"

However in all other cases, when a consonant preceeds 'с' it softens this consonant. So for example:

'ряд' (row) would be pronounced almost as рьад, not рйад

Edit: Oops I got my cyrillics messed up, I'm not even sure if I got your question right... For some reason it shows different stuff on different browsers[/b]

Cyrillic Alphabet -BG

Nice handwriting, coolie Your cursive is definately better than mine since I never used it anyway, and whenever I did, people couldn't read it

Elf, ukrainian? but first language is russian? how?

sunny poison, Most Ukrainians speak Russian especially if they live in the eastern or northern part of the country (including Kiev). Suprisingly, fewer ukrainians speak ukrainian than russian! It has a lot to do with the history of Ukrainian occupation - before the Soviet Union the north-eastern part of it was occupied by Russia, hence the language.

Anyway, would like to hear U speaking

I would also like to hear myself speaking.. hehe, but I don't ahve a mic and I'm too lazy to buy one...

and if U have no problem with it, U could become my assistent... the process is so intense, that I def wouldn't mind having one or two

That would be an honor! Whenever I have time, I will do my best to assist you

[la aurora]

spyretto, my bad... U are right! it's def Volkava. But I warned U that sometimes I have problems with transcription as I'm stuck for right spelling, sry. At least I pronounce it right on the file

rachelc:
Sharapava, Kurn'ikava, Dim'en't'yiva, Mysk'ina (y sounds like 'ы' in last case).
Don't be confused with this 'sto'&'sta' thing. It's not one word pronaunced in 2 different ways. It's really 'ста' and 'сто' (2 different grammar forms of one word. It's too early for U to know what 'падежи' is... it's a question of grammar not pronunciation).

coolie, thanks for the cyrillic alphabet. I was really about to ask U to do this. U are just reading my mind, girl

sasha, find the word in russian that ends with 'сд' first as I really don't know any. It just doesn't exist (rules aren't stupid... they describe language as it is. Not what it could be)... it can end with 'зд' tho... then 'д' becomes unvoiced as it's the last word and 'з' becomes unvoiced too as now it's followed by unvoiced sound. So, for example 'подъезд' should be read as 'падйест'. I know it's hard, but all U need is to understand and practice a bit But I'm glad u are such a curious type! Btw, hearing U asking this question, I'm feeling sure U are very close to getting this whole voiced-unvoiced thing

[la aurora]

russkayatatu, I'm really gald our ways crossed again it would be really interesting to hear ur file, hope I will when come back. Yeah, it's great that U have this experience of learning russian as a foreigner. I don't have it. So it would be really nice of U to read this thread and if U notice I gave some things from the 'russian' point of view and U can explain our students how to deal with this or that easier, tell them, k?

Elf, it would be a honor for ME if U decide to become my assistent Same goes for russkayatatu and coolie (huh... I know U are one of the students, but sometimes U really can help like with this alphabet. U are slavic... and U know russian well enough).

Uff... I don't know when I'll be online again as I have just few cents left So, I'm leaving this tread in ur hands, guys. Try to answer questions U can. Give students some advices with pronunciation, if they need. I'm giving some kind of homework again, so they'll def need them may be U'll find anything else to entertain guys while I'm absent (may be I'll connect from any i-net cafe, but I won't have ability to download anything).

[la aurora]

Dear students!. I gave U quite enough of material to work with. Now U'd better spend some time learning and repeating these 3 lessons. It takes time. And now U have it. (I was hurrying on purpose, as I knew I'll be to disappear for some time). Don't hurry. It never helps. Keep asking ur questions. My assitents will try to answer them (right, guys? ) If not, I'll do it myself at my rare connections or after I finally come back. I'll try to do it as soon as possible.

Here's a homework for ya. It's more difficult then the first one as U'll need to use lesson 3 for it as well as 2 previous ones. I'm expecting ur sound files as it was before, but this time, to be sure U really do understand how to read this or that, I'd like to see ur transcription (better in cyrrillic, but if U still find it difficult, use latin letters). Here's how it should look like (I take the phrase from previous exercise as an example, but U'll be to make transcription for the new one):

Люди плохи, не потому, что они плохи... :
Л'уд'и плох'и, н'и патаму, шта ан'и плох'и...
or at least:
L'ud'i ploh'i, n'i patamu, shta an'i ploh'i...

See what I mean? Of course it's loads of work and it's still voluntary, but it could really be a great help for ur learning these rules. Here's the new text:

Кажется окажется проще не знакомиться
Кто из нас откажется взять и успокоиться
Девочки как девочки, а потом лунатики
Номера и стрелочки, шоколадки, фантики

Dear assistents! please, don't comment on posted transcriptions before most of students post theirs! They need to do it on their own. And it will be quite difficult not to have a look on the right variant just wait a bit, k?

chmoki

[denial]

sunny poison, ...where you going to? ...how long you'll be going? .........*started to cry* ....uhu..uhu..uhu.....

Practice:
Yulia VolkAva
Yulia VolkAva
Yulia VolkAva
Yulia VolkAva
Yulia VolkAva
Yulia VolkAva
Yulia Volkava


This the hardest one.. to change habit.

To Russia with Love